Changes v Crows

[Portmanteau]

What is even more telling is that mid-way through the 3rd, Hickey was only marginally winning the HOs (29-27). So it was actually during the 9 goal (to 1) onslaught by Port that Lobbe was convincingly beaten in the HOs (Hickey's gained another 27 to Lobbe's 15).
Go figure.

That's how I saw it on the replay too. The rucks were very even in the first half, Hickey got well on top in the third but we managed to gain possession directly or by forcing a turnover in close. Most of Lobbe's best taps were won by St Kilda players. Ruck work is weird.

 

[Portmanteau]

Cheers - I steer clear of the paper so haven't seen that. Can't understand why it isn't provided in the AFL online stats.

Champion Data don't tend to show up anywhere on line, unless they're cited in an article. Must be an arrangement with News Ltd?

 

[Waspy79]

I've tried to find these stats, any idea where they can be accessed?

Champion Data... but probably need to pay.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Champion Data don't tend to show up anywhere on line, unless they're cited in an article. Must be an arrangement with News Ltd?

Yeah its been an arrangement with News for years and is the whole basis of the Super Footy fantasy footy stuff.

 

[Waspy79]

Lobbe had 42 hitouts to Hickey's 56. Hardly an absolute shellacking.

Too simplistic - many of Lobbe's went to the opposition, many to no one, whilst Hickey's ruck work resulted in at least 15 clearances (that's a huge influence).

If you want to analyse merit of performance have a look at the champion data stats and scores - Hickey scored 157 (best on ground by a mile) and Lobbe 82. Enough said.

 

[Papa G]

Too simplistic - many of Lobbe's went to the opposition, many to no one, whilst Hickey's ruck work resulted in at least 15 clearances (that's a huge influence).

If you want to analyse merit of performance have a look at the champion data stats and scores - Hickey scored 157 (best on ground by a mile) and Lobbe 82. Enough said.

Its also too simplistic to suggest some skinny kid who's shown a glimpse of form in the ruck should replace a tried and tested, albeit limited mature ruckman. Dougal looks promising but the probability of him getting absolutely destroyed in a Showdown against Jacobs are extremely high. We know Lobbe's record against Jacobs isn't good, but unfortunately the raw facts are that Jacobs is a better player than Lobbe. But the chances of a match hardened Lobbe getting closer to him than a skinny debutant are also much higher. If it was a forced change, sure go for it, but it isn't. Lobbe has suddenly become a massive whipping boy on this forum, sure he's not in the top 10 ruckman in the league, but FFS he's the best we've got.

 

[Far Kern]

Re Lobbe - I've watched the third quarter in particular very closely and up until we click and the midfield pressure goes up in the third in wouldn't have mattered if Brendan Brogmus with a plane load of Dank Special was playing.

Watch in particular after Chad's poach goal, 13:20 on the clock, and although we lose the next clearance there are suddenly Port bodies flying everywhere, including some great pressure from Chad and Polly, and we get the pill straight back. This is what Kern wants. Keep watching, with the game in the balance for the next five minutes or so you don't see that desperation. This is when St. Kilda put on the string of stoppage goals.

It's at 6:38 on the clock at a ball in that Robbie gets down and dirty leading to the Ebo goal square goal. It takes time, but from here Boaky, Ebo x2, Broadie, Ollie bustles in front for a goal, we start to win stoppages through the effort of our mids.

Magically Lobbes looks great at the centre bounce at 4:24 as we confirm the change around with possibly our first clean centre break since the opening minute with Robbie, Ollie, Neadey and Sam all sharp. From here momentum in the game never goes back to St. Kilda and the Port bodies don't stop hitting hard. Just watch the next 90 seconds after the Dixon point to see what it's all about. Great footy, and Matthew Lobbe's in the ruck the whole time.

Whatever we've got in the ruck, and it is what it is, the evidence from Sunday is that it's the work rate of the mids that counts.

 

[Waspy79]

Its also too simplistic to suggest some skinny kid who's shown a glimpse of form in the ruck should replace a tried and tested, albeit limited mature ruckman. Dougal looks promising but the probability of him getting absolutely destroyed in a Showdown against Jacobs are extremely high. We know Lobbe's record against Jacobs isn't good, but unfortunately the raw facts are that Jacobs is a better player than Lobbe. But the chances of a match hardened Lobbe getting closer to him than a skinny debutant are also much higher. If it was a forced change, sure go for it, but it isn't. Lobbe has suddenly become a massive whipping boy on this forum, sure he's not in the top 10 ruckman in the league, but FFS he's the best we've got.

I hope you weren't one of those that criticized Ken for continuing to play a sadly out of form Jonas for weeks beyond when it was obvious he was cooked.

Isn't it time we bit the bullet and decided that we wanted Howard to be the best we've got? Because Lobbe has had his chances and he's simply not up to it.

 

[Coobk001]

Dougal isn't ready to ruck at AFL level, dont be ridiculous. He's a good kid and developing nicely, but he's a mile behind Lobbe.

 

[Adz2332]

dougal forward, westhoff to the wing to cover white
let him play forward and have a crack at the ruck at times

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

We need to repeat the tactics of Rd 8 2014 v Freo at AO. This time Lobbe instead of Renouf bashs and crashes into Jacobs instead of Sandilands, drive the knees into the ribs when he gets a chance at a ball up and tire Jacobs out big time by 3/4 time. Then Jacko comes on nice and fresh and uses his leap to jump over Jacobs in the last.

He has done that against Jacobs before where we threw him into the middle in a showdown at Footy Park in 2013 half way thru the last quarter and he gave our mids first use of the ball as he jumped high over Jacobs. I cant remember if it was the April or August 2013 showdown but it worked a treat.

That's why I would probably bring O'Shea in to cover Jacko in the last quarter and use Jasper or Jarman to use their pace to cover for no White on the wing.

 

[ozph1870]

Jonas in good form is a great match up for betts. 2015 Jonas would get destroyed.

It's astonishing how people forget how good he was before that

Jonas is more suited to the bigger forwards. Betts would destroy him. Need impey for betts. Even pittard and get him to hurt him the other way.

 

[70sDinosaur]

We need to repeat the tactics of Rd 8 2014 v Freo at AO. This time Lobbe instead of Renouf bashs and crashes into Jacobs instead of Sandilands, drive the knees into the ribs when he gets a chance at a ball up and tire Jacobs out big time by 3/4 time. Then Jacko comes on nice and fresh and uses his leap to jump over Jacobs in the last.

Actually, this sounds like the tactic we might need to use every week this year.

 

[Adz2332]

Actually, this sounds like the tactic we might need to use every week this year.

exactly!
use it every week! why we dont is beyond me.
Is it lobbe doesnt have the ummmm girth that Renouf did for this tactic to become effective?

 

[Jello_B]

Lobbe had 42 hitouts to Hickey's 56. Hardly an absolute shellacking.

Watching the game it felt like all be was being dominated. I've been a Lobbe supporter, but after the weekend he is making it hard.
How many games do we go in with Lobbe playing 90% of ruck before we do something different? I would go to 4-5 and then do something. Tough call to be made, glad I'm not the one making it.

 

[Adz2332]

If lobbe could find his aggression re tackling again and have a 8 or so tackles i could start to get back on board

 

[charcolechaddy]

His form has improved ever game this year back him in FFS!

 

[Adam Marrett23]

What is even more telling is that mid-way through the 3rd, Hickey was only marginally winning the HOs (29-27). So it was actually during the 9 goal (to 1) onslaught by Port that Lobbe was convincingly beaten in the HOs (Hickey's gained another 27 to Lobbe's 15).
Go figure.

Because the midfield lifted by then and covered what Lobbe doesn't have or do.

The midfield bring their A game every week the Lobbe issue isn't as glaring. They don't we are trouble arguably like most sides in the comp.

 

[ab56452001]

We need to inflict pain on Eddie. Anytime he goes near it, have Tommy Jonas run through him. Get reported, I dont care, just make him hurt.

Spot on ,and get Butch to sacrifice himself , flatten Tahlia first go.

 

[chiwigi]

Did I miss something? Why should carlile be dropped?

If we are going to push so far up the ground I'd swap him for someone who could run a bit more.

Other than that I don't know.

 

[ab56452001]

Kenny's personal intervention saved Lobbe's arse this year , we lose this and the season gets wobbly , could be very costly for both of em.

 

[finbarr]

Kenny's personal intervention saved Lobbe's arse this year , we lose this and the season gets wobbly , could be very costly for both of em.

Round 2 and the season gets wobbly? We lost in Round 2, 2014 fwiw.

 

[chiwigi]

We need to repeat the tactics of Rd 8 2014 v Freo at AO. This time Lobbe instead of Renouf bashs and crashes into Jacobs instead of Sandilands, drive the knees into the ribs when he gets a chance at a ball up and tire Jacobs out big time by 3/4 time. Then Jacko comes on nice and fresh and uses his leap to jump over Jacobs in the last.

He has done that against Jacobs before where we threw him into the middle in a showdown at Footy Park in 2013 half way thru the last quarter and he gave our mids first use of the ball as he jumped high over Jacobs. I cant remember if it was the April or August 2013 showdown but it worked a treat.

That's why I would probably bring O'Shea in to cover Jacko in the last quarter and use Jasper or Jarman to use their pace to cover for no White on the wing.

If Lobbe could jump high enough to stick the ribs, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[ab56452001]

Round 2 and the season gets wobbly? We lost in Round 2, 2014 fwiw.

Never said this week or next , but if it go's pear shaped from here on in after a shit loss , mainly because of Lobbe ,then bye bye both . Of course hope it don't happen , but lose this could easily be the seed.

 

[finbarr]

Spot on ,and get Butch to sacrifice himself , flatten Tahlia first go.

Selecting Butcher would mean we effectively go in a man short.