Unofficial Preview Changes vs GWS

[Digsby]

I don't mind the idea of shifting Howe forward, the forward mix just clearly isn't working well, for a reference in our last 8 games we have averaged 69.5 points per game and the last time we went over 80 points was 93 against the tigers last year. Maybe a bit of a fresh look with a new dynamic and vocal leader in there will give us a bit of a positive shake up

I think Moore has to return to the backline - and I like what we've seen of Houston's improvement and Parkers continued development so it at least gives us an avenue to look at Howe forward and persist with those two lads (with the additional benefit that if we feel we need another bigger body in the backline a Reef or Cochrane might be ready).

The issue with Howe is that I think he can only replace Membrey - who I am a big fan off, but I think Howe gives us a bit more aerially and aerobically than the Skunk. You then have to have a look at West for either Buller or Mcstay - which of the pair I would be inclined to keep the faith with Mcstay and give Buller a chance to find his feet at VFL level. Additionally, like Daniher and Roughead of yesteryear, maybe returning to a bit more of a second ruck role for Dan might get him back around the footy more and take his focus away from the pure "mark-kick-goal" mindset (which he isn't delivering on mind you), but both Daniher and JR have said a bit of ruck time actually helps them find a bit of space and opportunity to kick goals which might help Dan

For me I'd go a forward line of
Schultz Mcstay McCreery
Elliot West Howe

With a hefty amount of minutes for JDG i50 too - coming on as the 7th forward and basically playing as a pseudo-full forward when not pinching in the midfield.

He could provide a bit of leadership up forward too

 

[manicpie]

In: Moore, Howe, Steene, West
Out: McStay, Allen, Parker, Buller

There ya go ya campaigner

That's more like it, I haven't been called a campaigner all weekend, I almost feel dirty

 

[manicpie]

He could provide a bit of leadership up forward too

Yes, digs, yes indeed

 

[stormskye]

His centre throw up leap could be very handy. We are definitely struggling with Cameron getting jumped all over.

Watch his footage manic. He’s going to ground jumping far too often. Not sold he’s doing enough around the ground to warrant being played because he can jump. Haven’t seen enough to think he is ready. Prefacing this that’s it’s my opinion before I get shot down .

I do think we could bring west in. Mcstay is just so down on confidence a run in the 2’s might do him so good. Though we may be a tad small up front with west and membrey when Buller rucks .

 

[manicpie]

Watch his footage manic. He’s going to ground jumping far too often. Not sold he’s doing enough around the ground to warrant being played because he can jump. Haven’t seen enough to think he is ready. Prefacing this that’s it’s my opinion before I get shot down

He's not much good if he keeps going to ground. He's out of my changes now. Out Steene, in West

 

[stormskye]

He's not much good if he keeps going to ground. He's out of my changes now. Out Steene, in West

Again just from what I’ve seen. Seems to happen pretty often.

I think we are giving too much weight to ruck contests in the middle. End of the day how many are there? Is it worth playing Steene because he can jump in a few? Then what about the round the ground stoppages where he’s on the smaller side?

Need more of a sample size but I think to much weight is being given to a very small % of game time (centre ruck contests). And winning hitouts is no guarantee of a clearance win

 

[manicpie]

Again just from what I’ve seen. Seems to happen pretty often.

I think we are giving too much weight to ruck contests in the middle. End of the day how many are there? Is it worth playing Steene because he can jump in a few? Then what about the round the ground stoppages where he’s on the smaller side?

Need more of a sample size but I think to much weight is being given to a very small % of game time (centre ruck contests). And winning hitouts is no guarantee of a clearance win

Sounds like he's at Guy Richards level.

 

[IlovethePies]

I'd like to see the forward line changed up.

Out either McStay or Membrey, and in with West.

If Howe or Moore is ready, they go into the backline.

Who goes out? A difficult choice. Clearly out of Parker and Allan. I think for me it would be Parker. We need to understand what Allan can offer in the midfield urgently, because that is our critical mass issue right now.

Allan needs a chance to play in his preferred midfield role for a series of games. He's had two. Needs another three. We need to sort this midfield out immediately.

 

[HFF]

Haven’t seen anything from Steene in pre season games to suggest he deserves a call up.

We’ve played two games. Are 1-1 and lost by 2 goals to a good team. It’s not panic stations just yet

The ruck rules suggest otherwise and it’s obvious we need someone who can jump at centre bounce because Cameron simply can’t or doesn’t.

 

[stormskye]

The ruck rules suggest otherwise and it’s obvious we need someone who can jump at centre bounce because Cameron simply can’t or doesn’t.

i don’t see how the new ruck rules suggest Steene is ready to play simply because he can jump. We can agree to disagree

 

[No SPIN]

Fully expect us to go in with the same forwards again…

But I just feel this is a perfect opportunity for West to come in against a backline that is decimated.

If none of these young guys can get early season opportunities then forget about it.

Plenty of time for the young guys - why the urgency for “early season opportunities “?

 

[sr36]

Watch his footage manic. He’s going to ground jumping far too often. Not sold he’s doing enough around the ground to warrant being played because he can jump. Haven’t seen enough to think he is ready. Prefacing this that’s it’s my opinion before I get shot down .

That's what I think too. Teams with the blokes who can't jump will adjust to losing hitouts, but the non-jumpers are going to kill it with clearances, as the jumpers will put them out of the contest too often - unless they have cat like recovery like Luke Jackson.

 

[granniewolf]

Watch his footage manic. He’s going to ground jumping far too often. Not sold he’s doing enough around the ground to warrant being played because he can jump. Haven’t seen enough to think he is ready. Prefacing this that’s it’s my opinion before I get shot down .

I do think we could bring west in. Mcstay is just so down on confidence a run in the 2’s might do him so good. Though we may be a tad small up front with west and membrey when Buller rucks .

Oscar also kicks goals, plus he's 201cm.
Question, if Buller's 2 games had been in the VFL, would you say he showed enough to be picked over Charlie or Oscar?
I don't have a downer on Buller btw.

The best of Oscar Steene

Watch the best of 21-year-old ruck Oscar Steene at VFL level.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

 

[granniewolf]

He's not much good if he keeps going to ground. He's out of my changes now. Out Steene, in West

Manic, you are swinging like a dunny door in a gale

 

[stormskye]

Oscar also kicks goals, plus he's 201cm.
Question, if Buller's 2 games had been in the VFL, would you say he showed enough to be picked over Charlie or Oscar?
I don't have a downer on Buller btw.

The best of Oscar Steene

Watch the best of 21-year-old ruck Oscar Steene at VFL level.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

I’d play west. I wouldn’t Steene.

Steenes kicked 19 goals in 37 games. Don’t think his forward craft justifies picking him given his ruck struggles just yet.

I’m not saying he won’t get games. I’m just saying I’d like to see him knocking the door down in the VfL games. He hasn’t been. If he dominates in the first few games I’ll jump on his train.

I know many want kids to get games but just think we need to be realistic with most of the kids on the list. Steene an SSP signing, rookie selection developing tall. The chances of him becoming a 200 game player for us are very low. He’s a free hit, like Buller.

The same goes for most of the others. Tj, HH Ryan, West, Hayes, Cochran, prindable, swaddling, Anderson, smit etc are all late picks. There’s always diamonds in the rough but again objectively speaking if 2 or 3 of that list make it from where they’ve been picked that’s a good result.

Thankfully the VFL starts this week so all of them will get their chances to stake their claims

 

[Kappa]

Oscar also kicks goals, plus he's 201cm.
Question, if Buller's 2 games had been in the VFL, would you say he showed enough to be picked over Charlie or Oscar?
I don't have a downer on Buller btw.

The best of Oscar Steene

Watch the best of 21-year-old ruck Oscar Steene at VFL level.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

Steene kicked... 9 goals from 18 games at VFL last year.

Where did this myth come that he's a goal kicker?

He kicks goals about as much as Pendlebury, at VFL level. Need to see a LOT more from him before you could consider him as an AFL level forward.

 

[granniewolf]

I’d play west. I wouldn’t Steene.

Steenes kicked 19 goals in 37 games. Don’t think his forward craft justifies picking him given his ruck struggles just yet.

I’m not saying he won’t get games. I’m just saying I’d like to see him knocking the door down in the VfL games. He hasn’t been. If he dominates in the first few games I’ll jump on his train.

I know many want kids to get games but just think we need to be realistic with most of the kids on the list. Steene an SSP signing, rookie selection developing tall. The chances of him becoming a 200 game player for us are very low. He’s a free hit, like Buller.

The same goes for most of the others. Tj, HH Ryan, West, Hayes, Cochran, prindable, swaddling, Anderson, smit etc are all late picks. There’s always diamonds in the rough but again objectively speaking if 2 or 3 of that list make it from where they’ve been picked that’s a good result.

Thankfully the VFL starts this week so all of them will get their chances to stake their claims

So, Mason Cox kicked 10 goals out of 26 games his last two years at Collingwood.
Lots or people still think we should have kept him.
Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine, so let's leave it at that . ( again )

 

[PiesHateU2]

Charlie West has to be played. Consistently. At least 10 games in a row. McStay or Buller can sit out for that period, unless they shoot the living daylights out of the VFL. Membrey, while older and slower, still looks the more dangerous and likely to actually score

 

[No SPIN]

Charlie West has to be played. Consistently. At least 10 games in a row. McStay or Buller can sit out for that period, unless they shoot the living daylights out of the VFL. Membrey, while older and slower, still looks the more dangerous and likely to actually score

Why does West deserve 10 games in a row but not Buller ?

 

[PiesHateU2]

Because in the 1 or 2 games West played last year before he broke his foot, he actually showed a lot more than Buller has. He was also tearing it up in the VFL.

Perhaps I was a bit unfair on Buller... by all means, give him a go too. However, I would pick West over McStay given the latter's poor form over several rounds dating back to last year.

 

[No SPIN]

Because in the 1 or 2 games West played last year before he broke his foot, he actually showed a lot more than Buller has. He was also tearing it up in the VFL.

Perhaps I was a bit unfair on Buller... by all means, give him a go too. However, I would pick West over McStay given the latter's poor form over several rounds dating back to last year.

IMO there is no reason to rush West into the team especially given he missed the VFL game against Geel. I’d prefer he dominates in the VFL to put pressure on selectors for a spot.
Buller deserves time, and McStay was injured in the rounds you’re speaking about - shoulder from memory. He’s got the best hands of any of our forwards but is lacking confidence which will come.

 

[cfc19902010]

Why does West deserve 10 games in a row but not Buller ?

Wests got a-lot more upside than Buller from what I've seen

 

[PiesHateU2]

IMO there is no reason to rush West into the team especially given he missed the VFL game against Geel. I’d prefer he dominates in the VFL to put pressure on selectors for a spot.
Buller deserves time, and McStay was injured in the rounds you’re speaking about - shoulder from memory. He’s got the best hands of any of our forwards but is lacking confidence which will come.

I have nothing against McStay. My question is, how much leeway do you give someone like him versus letting a young guy who has shown something have a crack? McStay played 18 games last year. Why not give West a sustained run like that?

 

[No SPIN]

I have nothing against McStay. My question is, how much leeway do you give someone like him versus letting a young guy who has shown something have a crack? McStay played 18 games last year. Why not give West a sustained run like that?

The question is not if, but when, to give West a good run. I think that should happen after he’s proven himself with excellent form in the VFL. There is no rush IMO.

 

[No SPIN]

Wests got a-lot more upside than Buller from what I've seen

Do we really know how much upside Buller has given he’s played 2 games in a completely new structure and game plan? Lots of people here, thought DC was a dud in his early years - new recruits need time to fit in and play well.
West is young he has plenty of time.