Universal Love Charlie ‘Chook’ Constable

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Seeds said:
Why couldnt he rest up forward or on a back flank for 10 mins a game?
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Isn't one of the complaints that we already have enough defenders in the team - if the option for Constable was the back flank when not in the middle then surely that would be more complaints about trying to turn him into a defender or having too much of a defensive mindset in the team

In terms of trying to find an extra 5-10% of game time for him, I'd rather it be in the form of him going forward. At 191cm, he could be a potential damaging marking target when resting up forward, but he hasn't shown himself to be a contested marking player at this stage & not sure how he goes with that in the VFL
 
Grimoz said:
He's contracted for next year and wont be traded, could be Selwoods last year next year......move along!!!!
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Unless someone offered a stupid ridiculous deal such as a top 10 pick - otherwise I agree
 

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Seeds said:
And danger, selwood, duncan, kelly dont all have those games where there disposal is just terrible?

The only mid who doesnt is ablett.
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Of course they do, but I think you may have missed the point I was making. I wasn't being critical of his actual disposal, I was questioning some of his decision making. He looked rushed at times and just handballed/kicked blindly in hope. Dangerfield does similar, but well and truly makes up for it in other areas.

As I mentioned, I definitely think he's worth persisting with for now - he obviously would have been nervous last night and the conditions were incredibly difficult, so I'm not trying to be too harsh on him.
 
cats_09 said:
Unless someone offered a stupid ridiculous deal such as a top 10 pick - otherwise I agree
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Depends on the attitude around the club too. If the club thought Stephens would pass him by next year and we were offered for Constable what we paid at the draft then they might just do it. I wouldn't think many modern midfielders who weren't regulars by the end of their 3rd year on the list have then gone on to become stars. Mids should really be plug and play these days with the professionalism of the u-18 competitions.
 
It's not that complicated, is it?

The following mids should be picked before Constable: Selwood, Dangerfield, Duncan, Menegola, and this season Guthrie. Both Ablett in 2018 and Kelly in 2018-19 were also well ahead in line. That doesn't leave much space. It then becomes Parfitt or Constable, and Parfitt offers more. Footy Smarts provides some useful statistical info above comparing the two, and Parfitt has the better tank and more pace. Some might say Constable instead of Stevens, but they aren't like for like and play different roles. Stevens was brought in to add speed to a slow team; Constable isn't quick.

So Constable is currently a fringe player at Geelong. He will get chances when those ahead of him are injured, retire, or their form slips. He may not want to wait, and he may not be a fringe player at some other clubs, so that is an avenue he can pursue. It's his decision, and if he decides to go elsewhere, we get a pick, c'est la vie.

TLDR: breaking into Geelong's midfield isn't easy.
 
Hamingja said:
Depends on the attitude around the club too. If the club thought Stephens would pass him by next year and we were offered for Constable what we paid at the draft then they might just do it. I wouldn't think many modern midfielders who weren't regulars by the end of their 3rd year on the list have then gone on to become stars. Mids should really be plug and play these days with the professionalism of the u-18 competitions.
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Call me a bit old fashioned with this view but there is somewhat of a more romantic exciting feel for me about that raw but freakishly talented first year draftee who shows flashes of brilliance and gifted moments, who then progresses naturally over the years and blossoms into a superstar....

instead due to the under 18 comp in modern times we are seeing a few more Walsh/Rowell examples of midfielders coming into the competition at a high standard already and you feel their development and scope is a lot smaller and the excitement probably isn’t at the same level.. if I’m making any sense.

for me the journey watching them transform into superstars from a pure raw potential when they walked through can be more exciting than the ready made professional with less scope such as Rowell/Walsh.

I look at gaz junior and his journey to becoming the champion he was from a raw skinny forward flanker when drafted, and I look at rankine similar at the moment who is the closest talent to gaz Jnr in a decade we have seen, and the excitement of watching The flourishment is quite high as opposed to the already established workhorse
 
Curious to see if the constable fans are still in his corner? I see him as nothing more than a vfl footballer - accumulates possessions but doesn’t hurt sides with his use. Hasn’t got the defensive anger or intensity of Simpson, and is a one way player. I’d trade him for literally whatever we could get for him.
 
Catsmaninamerica said:
Curious to see if the constable fans are still in his corner? I see him as nothing more than a vfl footballer - accumulates possessions but doesn’t hurt sides with his use. Hasn’t got the defensive anger or intensity of Simpson, and is a one way player. I’d trade him for literally whatever we could get for him.
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Not every player needs to be damaging. Winning the ball and being smart enough in possession to get it to someone more explosive or precise is valuable. The issue with Constable that if that's going to be your one role. you need to be doing it consistently throughout a game. And it seems his tank still prevents him from doing that. It concerns me that he doesn't seem to have progressed but I have to defer to the people who watch him train and can make a judgement on his professionalism, natural fitness, and overall whether he's likely to show improvement there. So I'll trust whatever decision the club makes in that regard
 
Catsmaninamerica said:
Curious to see if the constable fans are still in his corner? I see him as nothing more than a vfl footballer - accumulates possessions but doesn’t hurt sides with his use. Hasn’t got the defensive anger or intensity of Simpson, and is a one way player. I’d trade him for literally whatever we could get for him.
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his only 21?? Bit premature of a call.

heard Matthew knights talk about him earlier and what he needs to become to be a regular AFL player. Spoke about how he needs to become an elite inside midfield extractor with precision handballing to the outside if he is to make it as an AFL footballer. Needs to model his game off jobe Watson as an extractor he said.

can see the point of view regarding his future. If he is to make it at AFL level he needs to become elite as an extractor. He doesn’t have the skills to Just be good in this regard and make it given he lacks a lot in other areas of his game and is not well rounded.
 
FredLeDeux said:
In summary, there appears to be a fair degree of unanimity on here.

Last night's effort proves that
- he's got what it takes to be a star, and
- he might or might not make it, and
- he's never going to be any good.
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Everyone is right this way, it's for the best.
 

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For those who think he can become a Jobe Watson or Josh Kennedy type that's fair enough he might. But even those 2 each only played 13 games in their first 3 seasons. Neither were regulars until their 4th year at AFL level. It's no disgrace that he's not in our best 22 right now. He'll get a handful of games to show his talent and he's contacted for next year if he steps up.
 
thejester said:
Scarlett has said it in media interviews twice IIRC that Constable isn't playing because while they rate him they see him as only really capable of playing as an inside midfielder, that he is behind Selwood and Danger, and they don't feel they have room in the side to carry another one. That's dressed up differently to how SEN have portrayed it but it is basically the same message, and would seem to be confirmed by the circumstances of his selection this week.
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Very surprised Scarlo has said anything publicly.:think:

Frankly, I'm super surprised that language was used at this time of year ie mid season. Irresponsible in the extreme and something a more astute media savvy football person - like our coach - would not have said publicly. Perhaps at season end if the club decides to move Chook on and a reason was called for.

And it's dumb reasoning as Dangers mode of playing bears little resemblance to Chooks.

The Saints will welcome him with open arms.
 
Footy Smarts said:
But he doesn't win clearances (less last year than Parsons, Guthrie, Narkle, etc despite playing way more midfield time). He doesn't win big contested numbers (only 9 contested possessions last night despite it being a game with high contested possessions numbers). So he's a midfielder who gets most of his ball in link up play but isn't especially damaging with the ball and doesn't have the tank to outrun his opponents like a Menegola. Again I just don't see the point of difference that will see him make it.

As far as I can tell people get super excited by him getting possessions because he plays 100% in midfield. He averaged only 3 possessions a game more than Parfitt last year despite playing almost entirely in midfield while Parfitt was playing as a defensive forward a lot of the year. It doesn't suggest a big difference in ball winning ability.



This is just silly. Parfitt is a key to us because his defensive game is excellent. He averaged almost double the tackles of any other player in our team. He's already received coaches votes in 2 games this year and he's only played 6. Even last night when people are talking up Constable they had the same number of effective disposals but Parfitt had more tackles, clearances, contested possessions, score involvements and goal assists. Basically people are talking up Constable's game based on a few uncontested and ineffective disposals. I'll take Parfitt by the length of the straight.
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Parfitt has also been given the miles more senior experience to develop his game. I’d bloody hope he’d be in front of Constable too with the the number of games he’s had by comparison. Constable comes on for one game, in terrible conditions, acquits himself perfectly fine seeing he’s not played real actual footy lately and people still want to pot him!

How about we give him an opportunity to actually get some continuity and increased confidence before making any judgements? I reckon Kolo and Blicavs were marked far more easily in their early days by the match committee. Both were forgiven for making often horrendous errors yet with persistence both have turned out to be reasonable types.
 
Footy Smarts said:
I really don't understand why he gets so much attention. Nobody is wondering why Fogarty wasn't getting games or suggesting he wants out and I'd be more disappointed losing him than Constable. I just don't see what Constable's point of difference is.

With our injury issues and so many games coming up we'll need him to play a role and that'll give him a chance to show more. But nothing last night suggested he was particularly unlucky not to be picked until now. He's a midfielder who lacks versatility and is clearly behind Selwood, Danger, Duncan, Guthrie, Menegola and Parfitt. That's basically the entire midfield already. Then there are a stack of others (Cockatoo, Steven, Narkle, Simpson) who can rotate through midfield rather than being to play there full time.

It's a tough gig but he just hasn't shown enough standout qualities to deserve a spot except when injuries force it.
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hear hear. Well said.

I thought he was ok last night. Not damnable but not praise worthy. He got the pill a few times yet did little with it. Would be hoping for far more from a dry game.
Seeds said:
Is it due to lack of endurance or do the coaches not think he can help resting in the forward or backlines like all other mids?
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Column A and Column B imo.
Seeds said:
You dont understand the difference in views between fogerty and constable?
Constable has only played 8 games for the club and already aversges over 21 touches a game. Fogerty has played double that and averages less then 13. Both are slow players. Fogarty also has diabolical disposal. Constable averages more then twice as many goals per game as fogarty.
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Highly unfair remark. Constable played all his games in position. Fogarty is a midfielder shoehorned as a pressure forward.

Will not get to see what he can do until they put him in the middle.
 
Art Vandelay_ said:
hear hear. Well said.

I thought he was ok last night. Not damnable but not praise worthy. He got the pill a few times yet did little with it. Would be hoping for far more from a dry game.

Column A and Column B imo.

Highly unfair remark. Constable played all his games in position. Fogarty is a midfielder shoehorned as a pressure forward.

Will not get to see what he can do until they put him in the middle.
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Is he playing as a mid in the seconds and racking up lots of ball?
 
Seeds said:
Is he playing as a mid in the seconds and racking up lots of ball?
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The games I saw yes. But didn’t see any from late July onwards, and obviously we haven’t got any data on scratch matches this year

A very interesting trend for a while now, players develop in the VFL in their position and aren’t guaranteed to play there in the AFL side. Atkins is another, he got on our list by getting in the bests every week as an inside mid. Parsons plays mid/wing yet plays a lot of For. Flank In the AFL.

Baffling way to develop players really
 
cats_09 said:
Wouldn't it be more like 7 positions in the 22 - 4 interchange and 3 centre square midfield positions.

Not sure he's started too many times on the wing and not sure he's suited to that type of role - what we've seen of him so far, he doesn't seem to have the endurance or pace to really play on the wings, so not sure that would be seen as a starting position for him at like a centre bounce situation

Seems that if he's not standing around the centre circle waiting for the tap, then he's on the bench - hence 7 spots
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Spot on there absolutely no way he could play on the wing. He just doesn't cover the ground well enough and would get exposed badly.
 
Farmer2Goggin said:
That's a perfect summary TheMenz Gallery. I'm also a bit on the fence but I'm a fan overall as he's got fantastic potential.
That's his eighth game and so far his lowest possession game has been 17 - after which he was dropped.
19 last night with low TOG and horrendous conditions was very solid.
He did look rushed at times , particularly early and in congestion but when he took possession in space he made great decisions and a few led to scores.
His height was valuable at times as demonstrated by seeing options outside of the immediate contest. Once he finds a bit more poise his effectiveness will increase.
He kicked a few helicopters but he wasn't on his own there ;)
What you see is what you get - a young inside mid who gets his hands on it regularly who has some strong attributes and some deficiencies.
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Can people explain this obsession with possession numbers to me? By itself it is no indicator if someone has played well or not. The impact you have with those possessions is, as is what you do without the ball ect ect. At the risk of repeating myself from another forum if you want the perfect example look at M Crouch. He is regularly dropped from a terrible terrible team and is always racking up the touches for that team.

The question is why and the answer is because coaches and informed decision makers don't just look at the number of times you touch the ball to determine your worth. Therefore please add more to your Constable arguments that possessions to outline his quality.
 
Footy Smarts said:
But he doesn't win clearances (less last year than Parsons, Guthrie, Narkle, etc despite playing way more midfield time). He doesn't win big contested numbers (only 9 contested possessions last night despite it being a game with high contested possessions numbers). So he's a midfielder who gets most of his ball in link up play but isn't especially damaging with the ball and doesn't have the tank to outrun his opponents like a Menegola. Again I just don't see the point of difference that will see him make it.

As far as I can tell people get super excited by him getting possessions because he plays 100% in midfield. He averaged only 3 possessions a game more than Parfitt last year despite playing almost entirely in midfield while Parfitt was playing as a defensive forward a lot of the year. It doesn't suggest a big difference in ball winning ability.



This is just silly. Parfitt is a key to us because his defensive game is excellent. He averaged almost double the tackles of any other player in our team. He's already received coaches votes in 2 games this year and he's only played 6. Even last night when people are talking up Constable they had the same number of effective disposals but Parfitt had more tackles, clearances, contested possessions, score involvements and goal assists. Basically people are talking up Constable's game based on a few uncontested and ineffective disposals. I'll take Parfitt by the length of the straight.
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This assessment is spot on albeit a little harsh on Constable. Let's just see more from him that what he's delivering before being furious he's not getting a game or leaving. If you don't impact on the inside of the contest and you can't impact on the outside you better be unbelievable with your creative hands and I'm not sure he is.

He may well be a very very good player in time but the hype around him cause he amasses possessions and has been out of the team is ridiculous.
 
AM said:
Very surprised Scarlo has said anything publicly.:think:

Frankly, I'm super surprised that language was used at this time of year ie mid season. Irresponsible in the extreme and something a more astute media savvy football person - like our coach - would not have said publicly. Perhaps at season end if the club decides to move Chook on and a reason was called for.

And it's dumb reasoning as Dangers mode of playing bears little resemblance to Chooks.

The Saints will welcome him with open arms.
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IMO the Scarlo comments were paid in respect not derision or putting him down. In the sense that he'd be getting games but he's held out by Selwood and PFD - meaning its 2 of the games best keeping him out - not like its 2 x spuds that he cant get past.
Scarlo shoots straight and he's also right that Chook is one dimensional in that he has one spot to play. He cant be the high half forward, winger or running defender.

All truth's really.

GO Catters
 
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