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Chris Langford

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Yardie said:
How long is an era? Is Lake or Gibson in the same era? Does it go back to Scarlett? In recent times our two boys are criminally underrated. Best peel off defender of the last ten years, Gibson without a doubt. And Rance got pantsed by Cox in a prelim, Lake would never had allowed that to happen as he would of adjusted and been the one to take the mark.
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It is subjective, but I'd give it 10-12 years in AFL terms.
Obviously it is different in society.
 
Yardie said:
I'm not saying he isn't a great player just that the hype is over the top. AA selection always tends to favour the media darlings, so I don't take too much notice of it.
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I always rate how good an opposition player is over their career by how much trouble they caused to the Hawks.

By this measure Rance does very well as how many Hawks v Tigers games did we all end up yelling at the TV screen "stop kicking the ball to f....... g Rance!"
 
Simon Crawshay said:
I always rate how good an opposition player is over their career by how much trouble they caused to the Hawks.

By this measure Rance does very well as how many Hawks v Tigers games did we all end up yelling at the TV screen "stop kicking the ball to f....... g Rance!"
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You could easily replace 'Rance' with 'for a f***en point!' over the last 2 years...


*if anyone wants to reply with "But our goal kicking percentage hasn't changed since the threepeat" then please don't - we were better then...
 
Flukey! said:
Where does Silvagni sit in your list of full backs CLA?

Langers was a great footballer, no doubt. He is a Hawthorn great and that is good enough for me. In these sorts of things, you will never get consensus on who is the best.

This question of best actually came up recently in a tribute to Hodge. In the video which I saw on YouTube, one his fellow players described him as Hawthorns greatest ever captain. I grew up watching Lethal and Tucky and that is a big call.

Maybe it's true and maybe it isn't, but I think we tend to rate the current players more highly because our memory of them is more recent.
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I do agree with Hodge being our greatest captain that I can remember. Mitchell was a little bit underrated as a captain as well. The thing that Hodge possessed was the organisational skills on the ground. Which stands out more than Tuck and Mathews.

vanderberg also gets overlooked. Vanderberg was the catalyst in creating our dynasty to be honest.since I first followed the club in 1984 I would rate the captains as being:

1. Hodge
2. Vanderberg
3. Mitchell
4. Mathews
5. Tuck
6. Ayres
7. Langford
8. Dunstall
9. Roughhead
10. Crawford
11. Stratton
 

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Nugett said:
I do agree with Hodge being our greatest captain that I can remember. Mitchell was a little bit underrated as a captain as well. The thing that Hodge possessed was the organisational skills on the ground. Which stands out more than Tuck and Mathews.

vanderberg also gets overlooked. Vanderberg was the catalyst in creating our dynasty to be honest.since I first followed the club in 1984 I would rate the captains as being:

1. Hodge
2. Vanderberg
3. Mitchell
4. Mathews
5. Tuck
6. Ayres
7. Langford
8. Dunstall
9. Roughhead
10. Crawford
11. Stratton
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With respect, your claim that Vandenberg was the catalyst in creating our dynasty is a gigantic stretch. Clarkson was by some way the most important driver of that ascension. Hodge, Mitchell,Crawford and Sewell were also critical in raising the standards early on and Lewis, Gibson,Roughead and Burgoyne became great leaders a bit later on. Vandenbetg was an adequate stop gap measure in an period in which not many of our senior players appeared to be capable of taking the wheel. Clarksons influence in developing great on and off field leadership was enormous.
 
Steven Tyler said:
The fact that we have 2 fullbacks in our Team of the Century says a lot as to how highly regarded both Chris Langford and Kelvin Moore are
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Yep, we have two full backs who could easily qualify for the AFL Team of the Century.
Chris Langford was one of the all time greats.

But I preferred Kelvin Moore just because I could! I saw all of his career; I loved that he was recruited as a slow-moving full forward at a time when Peter Hudson was the best ever, then he transformed himself into a great full back, such a cool and reliable defender.

And for those who never saw Kel play, have a look at the last quarter of the 1971 Grand Final. He took mark after mark, he had a similar but better game than Brian Lake in 2013.

.
 
andrew coombs said:
With respect, your claim that Vandenberg was the catalyst in creating our dynasty is a gigantic stretch. Clarkson was by some way the most important driver of that ascension. Hodge, Mitchell,Crawford and Sewell were also critical in raising the standards early on and Lewis, Gibson,Roughead and Burgoyne became great leaders a bit later on. Vandenbetg was an adequate stop gap measure in an period in which not many of our senior players appeared to be capable of taking the wheel. Clarksons influence in developing great on and off field leadership was enormous.
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Clarkson did play an important role, when he first came to the club. One of which was to appoint Vanderberg as captain. To quote from Vandenbergs Wikipedia page:

“He was made captain when Shane Crawford stepped down at the end of the 2004 season. New coach Alistair Clarkson chose Vandenberg because he was a man who was "very forthright, honest and has great integrity" qualities his teammates admired”

In another article https://www.sbs.com.au/news/mitchell-re-signs-with-hawks-in-afl
”Vandenberg, captain of the Hawks from 2005-07 before retiring, is credited with playing a crucial role in turning around the team's culture ahead of their current golden era.”

Clarkson supports captain's tenure

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks
www.hawkheadquarters.com

Crawford gets right behind Vandenberg

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks
www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawk takes leading role

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks
www.hawkheadquarters.com

it is still my opinion that Vandenberg was the right choice at the right time, to have captained the club. As you do point out correctly, Clarkson was instrumental, in placing responsibility on a captain, who through example and action, help lift his team mates to a higher standard.
 
Gralin said:
Cox got the game on his terms and Pies isolated Rance. Cox had a day out and kicked 3

People act like he destroyed Richmond, he kicked 3 out of the Pies 15
Buddy kicked 8 on Lake but apparently that doesn't count.
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The Lake, Buddy duel was pretty close to an extremely entertaining draw I think. Franklin actually booted five goals on Dale Morris who was put out of his misery during the second quarter.
 
Such is the nature of the AFL media landscape that for any Hawthorn player to be considered GOAT in his position they need to be at least 10% better than their rivals. It works in reverse for those who play for "big 4" clubs, whom the media are always desperate to promote to fatten their own bottom line.

Which is precisely why media awards and opinions are a gigantic crock of shit. Sam Mitchell for instance is virtually never mentioned as a candidate for the best onballer of his generation yet was absolutely instrumental in delivering FOUR Premierships. But as he didn't burst clear of packs regularly like Judd or pad half his stats from one-two handball receives like Ablett he's conveniently overlooked by a media landscape populated by Hawthorn-haters who'll never recover from The Mighty Hawks continually denying their inferior football clubs Premierships.

As for Langford, he played within the rules far more than other fullbacks of his era like Frawley or Martyn, and don't even get me started on Silvagni who was nothing more than a flashy scragger with a famous name and a trophy wife. This world is not a level playing field and the judgement of humans is forever clouded by self-interest and emotion rather than reason and logic, so playing for Hawthorn in a team full of stars was always going to hurt Langers' chances of winning the recognition his accomplishments deserved.
I'll say this much though- Chris was a singularly graceful and majestic footballer with natural attacking flair and wonderful athleticism, much like Rance but without the sickening media hype because he didn't play for Richmond and lacked the unusual Joho backstory. If anything I'd say Langford would've thrived even more in today's era which would suit his game brilliantly. Modern team/zone defense would allow him to peel off his man more often and key forwards are generally leaner than they were in Chris' era. Oh and one final point that must be mentioned in any discussion of Langford's abilities... don't forget he was lucky enough to avoid the greatest challenge of any fullback in history - containing the great Jason Dunstall! :cool:
 
Nugett said:
I do agree with Hodge being our greatest captain that I can remember. Mitchell was a little bit underrated as a captain as well. The thing that Hodge possessed was the organisational skills on the ground. Which stands out more than Tuck and Mathews.

vanderberg also gets overlooked. Vanderberg was the catalyst in creating our dynasty to be honest.since I first followed the club in 1984 I would rate the captains as being:

1. Hodge
2. Vanderberg
3. Mitchell
4. Mathews
5. Tuck
6. Ayres
7. Langford
8. Dunstall
9. Roughhead
10. Crawford
11. Stratton
Click to expand...

We won 4 flags while Tucky was captain. We were a mighty side in the mid/late 80's.
And while Matthews only captained one flag, he was an amazing leader and amazing footballer over his entire career.

And this is not to say you are wrong bevause it's based on what you remember.
It just highlights that these sorts of lists never achieve consensus.
Even amongst HFC fans, let alone the wider footy community.
 
Nugett said:
Clarkson did play an important role, when he first came to the club. One of which was to appoint Vanderberg as captain. To quote from Vandenbergs Wikipedia page:

“He was made captain when Shane Crawford stepped down at the end of the 2004 season. New coach Alistair Clarkson chose Vandenberg because he was a man who was "very forthright, honest and has great integrity" qualities his teammates admired”

In another article https://www.sbs.com.au/news/mitchell-re-signs-with-hawks-in-afl
”Vandenberg, captain of the Hawks from 2005-07 before retiring, is credited with playing a crucial role in turning around the team's culture ahead of their current golden era.”

Clarkson supports captain's tenure

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks
www.hawkheadquarters.com

Crawford gets right behind Vandenberg

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks
www.hawkheadquarters.com

Hawk takes leading role

Hawk Headquarters. The unofficial home of the Mighty Hawks
www.hawkheadquarters.com

it is still my opinion that Vandenberg was the right choice at the right time, to have captained the club. As you do point out correctly, Clarkson was instrumental, in placing responsibility on a captain, who through example and action, help lift his team mates to a higher standard.
Click to expand...

Around the middle of 2001 we were seen as the potential big movers for the next decade. A whole bunch of youngsters signed long term deals on big coin to keep them at the club. Things then turned pear shape very quickly from then on.

The biggest thing that turned around for the Hawks was our new coach within 12 months was able to start clearing out big names on big salaries that were no longer performing week in week out.

Once this occurred Carko was then able to put in place young leaders and mould them.

Vanders led and drove a new culture and then we were off.
 

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Simon Crawshay said:
I always rate how good an opposition player is over their career by how much trouble they caused to the Hawks.

By this measure Rance does very well as how many Hawks v Tigers games did we all end up yelling at the TV screen "stop kicking the ball to f....... g Rance!"
Click to expand...

By this measure Harry Taylor and Tom Lonergan are also the best defenders of the era.

* I actually rate Taylor pretty high to be fair.
 
Davo23 said:
Yep, we have two full backs who could easily qualify for the AFL Team of the Century.
Chris Langford was one of the all time greats.

But I preferred Kelvin Moore just because I could! I saw all of his career; I loved that he was recruited as a slow-moving full forward at a time when Peter Hudson was the best ever, then he transformed himself into a great full back, such a cool and reliable defender.

And for those who never saw Kel play, have a look at the last quarter of the 1971 Grand Final. He took mark after mark, he had a similar but better game than Brian Lake in 2013.

.
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Davo I don't go quiet as far back as I started attending games from 73 onwards. One of my lasting memories of Kel was watching him on countless occasions waddle from congestion normally straight up the spine and just at the point of being tackled he would not so much sidestep but hit the brakes, watch his opponent sail past then proceed to clear the ball, he was one cool customer.
At a time when numbers on dufflecoats were in vogue 15 was on mine.
 
Langford was an excellent Fullback and seems to get underrated during discussions about All time defenders. Perhaps playing in a team of greats had something to do with it. He was much more than a simple negating fullback who backed himself to beat his man to the ball and generated heaps of drive from the last line, something that not all teams had in that era. He represented Victoria 6 times (?) so was clearly rated among the best at the time. He certainly isn't underrated by Hawk people.
 
Gralin said:
Buddy took Lake to the cleaners in the 2008 QF, doesn't lessen what he did during our premierships though.
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There is the small matter that Buddy kicked the first 5 on Morris.

Of the three he kicked on lake two were Buddy ground ball specials and one was a very good mark for Buddy.
 
Always thought Langford was an all-time player, and was underrated by the football media, though not by fans of other teams I spoke to. But probably the best endorsement was the year Ablett kicked 120-odd goals in 17 games and won the MVP award. A reporter asked him at the presentation who he rated the best full-back and he said, 'Oh, Chris Langford' without missing a beat.
 
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philohk said:
Always thought Langford was an all-time player, and was underrated by the football media, though not by fans of other teams I spoke to. But probably the best endorsement was the year Ablett kicked 120-odd goals in 17 games and won the MVP award. A reported asked him at the presentation who he rated the best full-back and he said, 'Oh, Chris Langford' without missing a beat.
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'who he rated the best full-back and he said, 'Oh, Chris Langford' without missing a beat.'

The tribe has spoken.
 
I have a signed jumper of Chris Langford, along with a Jason Dunstall, John Platten and Sam Mitchell jumper hanging up in my garage/workshop at home

Also a signed Michael Tuck Team of the Century jumper

Guy was a superstar

4012B126-A4D8-4557-99DE-BD7B521FA3BE.jpeg
 
Steven Tyler said:
I have a signed jumper of Chris Langford, along with a Jason Dunstall, John Platten and Sam Mitchell jumper hanging up in my garage/workshop at home

Also a signed Michael Tuck Team of the Century jumper

Guy was a superstar

View attachment 797773
Click to expand...
Good idea, setting up your shed at the HFC Museum!
 
A Cut Above said:
Such is the nature of the AFL media landscape that for any Hawthorn player to be considered GOAT in his position they need to be at least 10% better than their rivals. It works in reverse for those who play for "big 4" clubs, whom the media are always desperate to promote to fatten their own bottom line.

Which is precisely why media awards and opinions are a gigantic crock of shit. Sam Mitchell for instance is virtually never mentioned as a candidate for the best onballer of his generation yet was absolutely instrumental in delivering FOUR Premierships. But as he didn't burst clear of packs regularly like Judd or pad half his stats from one-two handball receives like Ablett he's conveniently overlooked by a media landscape populated by Hawthorn-haters who'll never recover from The Mighty Hawks continually denying their inferior football clubs Premierships.

As for Langford, he played within the rules far more than other fullbacks of his era like Frawley or Martyn, and don't even get me started on Silvagni who was nothing more than a flashy scragger with a famous name and a trophy wife. This world is not a level playing field and the judgement of humans is forever clouded by self-interest and emotion rather than reason and logic, so playing for Hawthorn in a team full of stars was always going to hurt Langers' chances of winning the recognition his accomplishments deserved.
I'll say this much though- Chris was a singularly graceful and majestic footballer with natural attacking flair and wonderful athleticism, much like Rance but without the sickening media hype because he didn't play for Richmond and lacked the unusual Joho backstory. If anything I'd say Langford would've thrived even more in today's era which would suit his game brilliantly. Modern team/zone defense would allow him to peel off his man more often and key forwards are generally leaner than they were in Chris' era. Oh and one final point that must be mentioned in any discussion of Langford's abilities... don't forget he was lucky enough to avoid the greatest challenge of any fullback in history - containing the great Jason Dunstall! :cool:
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I second that. Clapping loudly.


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