Chris Scott's legacy if he gags in another finals series?

[nameless]

Got to be the worst finals team of the last decade.
Utter failures across the board and without the biggest home ground advantage in the competition might see some better teams finish in top 4.

Absolute waste of space in the top 4, giving whichever team they play a free ride.

Tonight was one of the worst prelim performances I've ever seen live.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Got to be the worst finals team of the last decade.

I don't know how that could be disputed at all. Obvious to the blind.

I think they'd be close to being dubbed the worst finals side of the modern era. There has never been a side, as finals are played these days, to finish up the top of the ladder, get QFs and PFs, but doing nothing in them. 7 top 4 finishes and 6 prelims since 2011 for one GF. 9 finals series... And while the most severe tonight was not the first belting.

Some may question the sanity in suggesting we sack a coach who keeps performing so well in the H&A and getting prime finals positions. I would argue what other coach has done this? Keep getting to the top-end but doing nothing? Never seen anything like it. Some lesser performing clubs may find it difficult to understand. Perhaps they'd be happy with getting to a prelim, but when you do it time and time and time again for nothing, it's very frustrating.

And it's the realisation that these chances are, generally, rare and fleeting that makes it frustrating. Most teams don't get 7 top 4 cracks in ten years. We could go 20 years without ever making another one. And we look back on this period, and I'm sure many will rue not converting more, not doing something. Melbourne were top 4 for the first time in yonks, and they're in a GF. Bulldogs made a prelim from outside the 4 and won a flag. Clubs from significantly fewer and more limited chances achieve more than what we do from fronting up every year. Why bother?

Relative to H&A, Chris Scott is the worst finals coach of all time. There's no need to qualify that. Look up the records of the coaches that have coached a similar number of finals games. None of those that coaches as many of those games as he had anywhere near, nothing close, to the failure he has. It is truly and utterly a historical aberration, an absurdity. It will be a long time before it is replicated.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

44 point lead is a smashing at that point of the game. I'm not really sure what you mean by "a normal run". Do I need to fish my tin-foil hat out of the cupboard to understand what you mean?

Watch it. You will see that all of Geelong’s first 6-7 goals came from passages of play with umpiring errors in Geelong’s favour:


- a goal to Dahlhaus from a 10-12 metre pass from Hawkins
- a goal to Hawkins where he clearly infringed May with a push in the back, after a clear Selwood throw
- a goal to Cameron where he grabs Petty’s jumper and throws him to the ground in the goal square long before the ball was even in the vicinity
- a goal where Dangerfield clearly ran 21 metres with the ball before kicking(ok this seems a common umpire error these days, but it was an error)
- a goal resulting indirectly from a midfield tackle on a Melbourne player when he had no prior and the ball spilled out in the tackle.

I cannot recall the other 1-2 off the top of my head but anyone can do what I did and watch, slow each play down and watch again to see what was happening. Melbourne did not get any goals in the first half resulting from umpire errors. I wondered if I was seeing it right so I got someone else(also neutral) to look at it independently for me in detail, and he came to roughly similar conclusions.

I am not saying the umpires were biased, they just made errors or failed to spot certain things that showed up clearly on the replay. But of course in a “normal run” all the errors resulting in goals don’t run in favour of one team. So if you simply removed the effect of those errors, then the game would have been much closer at half time.

I don’t want to sound like a git but I bet pretty seriously on football and after studying that rd 23 match closely I had my biggest bet for the season on the Demons in the PF. For the record I rated the Demons about 12 scoring shots ahead of Geelong for the PF based mainly on that match, but due to accuracy trends I expected something like a 4 goal 8 behind win to the Demons. The ease of their victory surprised even me, but I did think any variation from my assessment was more likely to the upside for the Dees.

Have a look at it if you can be bothered, see what you think, you might then see what I mean.

 

[dart]

cadel evans never contended for a TdF until he won it?

He came 2nd in 2008 and 2009 before winning in 2011.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[hk89]

Watch it. You will see that all of Geelong’s first 6-7 goals came from passages of play with umpiring errors in Geelong’s favour:

You should have just said "yes, get your tinfoil hat ready". Sorry, but I'll not be taking the word of a Richmond fan on whether Geelong may or may not have received umpiring favour. You guys seem obsessed with that particular topic in a very unhealthy way. I'm also not going to rewatch the game in detail, because since we beat them in the 2013 prelim, I've lost much of my own obsession with Geelong's foibles, and rewatching in the manner you seem to have done would require a degree of obsession I'm simply not willing to commit to.

Most people have trouble attributing a 44 point lead to umpiring, but well done on giving it a red-hot go.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You should have just said "yes, get your tinfoil hat ready". Sorry, but I'll not be taking the word of a Richmond fan on whether Geelong may or may not have received umpiring favour. You guys seem obsessed with that particular topic in a very unhealthy way. I'm also not going to rewatch the game in detail, because since we beat them in the 2013 prelim, I've lost much of my own obsession with Geelong's foibles, and rewatching in the manner you seem to have done would require a degree of obsession I'm simply not willing to commit to.

Most people have trouble attributing a 44 point lead to umpiring, but well done on giving it a red-hot go.

I wouldn’t normally expect a self-disprespecting Hawks supporter such as yourself to be a Ramdin Bawdeep Cats sympathiser hk.

You sound like you have gone 10 rounds with the boy who cried wolf and been left so punch drunk you immediately doubt information that comes from a redoubtable person such as myself who has absolutely no reason to lie. Well, if someone tells you that your hair is on fire, you might find it is better to pat your head and be laughed at than shoot the messenger and risk 4th degree burns to the scalp, whatever they are.

 

[My Tilly]

Got to be the worst finals team of the last decade.
Utter failures across the board and without the biggest home ground advantage in the competition might see some better teams finish in top 4.

Absolute waste of space in the top 4, giving whichever team they play a free ride.

Tonight was one of the worst prelim performances I've ever seen live.

I reckon any team that makes finals would hope to face Geelong. We have a few players who are soft and hate the spotlight. It's usually 16 v 18.

 

[Partridge]

Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

47

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

in the post-match press conference said the Cats will need to reflect on the 2010 prelim loss to Collingwood to bounce back like they did in 2011.

This confirms Geelong won't be taking any youth route. Another year of old farts.

Sound strategy, considering we entered 2011 with a 22-year-old Joel Selwood and 22-year-old Tom Hawkins.

I reckon the age profile might have altered just slightly since then.

 

[hk89]

Well, if someone tells you that your hair is on fire, you might find it is better to past your head and be laughed at than shoot the messenger and risk 4th degree burns to the scalp, whatever they are.

Thanks for clarifying why you so proudly wear your tinfoil hat. I'm sure it has been providing excellent protection against hair and scalp burns, and I pray that it continues to do so.

 

[Partridge]

They kind of have to until Cameron, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Selwood and Stewart are on their last legs. Personally I think they are in a hole and need a clean out, but hey, they know what they’re doing.

The middle three are already getting pretty close.

 

[Mr Magic]

44 point lead is a smashing at that point of the game. I'm not really sure what you mean by "a normal run". Do I need to fish my tin-foil hat out of the cupboard to understand what you mean?



Sure, and that's why I'd consider changing coach. They keep losing to teams in finals they've often been good enough to beat in H&A. Sounds like their game plan in finals needs addressing. It is too early to rebuild now, and they pretty much went further all in on this last year, which now makes it even harder for them to consider an immediate rebuild. You don't rebuild after losing a prelim (despite the humiliation). I wouldn't even suggest Richmond should go a full rebuild yet, and they couldn't even make finals.

Richmond can go into rebuild because we have some foundational youngsters, not so much Geelong because they are too far down the rabbit hole.
When I say rebuild for RFC I am talking about a actual possible rare short rebuild which is the unicorn scenario as most rebuilds are really never that short

There is no way RFC would entertain the likes of Mitchell given our current window. Mitchell surely would see we are too far off it anyway for a few years, he would not be that stupid would he?

When Geelong starts its rebuild, which is inevitable, even Geelong supporters would not be that ignorant, it would be impossible that it could be of the short variety at the very least.

 

[Partridge]

In the same period (2017 onward) they've added Ablett Jr (55 games in the second stint), Dahlhaus (58), Rohan (61), Steven, Jenkins, Smith (24), Higgins (18), Cameron (15). Scott said on his presser that they believe in players coming through the VFL but if they keep losing first round picks after 2-3 years they will have to keep topping up.

I like the "keep losing first round picks" part. If that is what he said he needs to realise we gave them away. No once forced them to.

Classic spin. Give picks away for ready made players (some good, some so-so, some spuds), then moan we don't have picks. And people still buy it.

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

Time for Geelong to move on.

 

[ldamico]

Sorry but that’s the stupidest theory I’ve ever heard.

I'll give you some examples:

St Kilda contented in 2010
Hawks in 2012
Collingwood in 2018

Geelong getting steamrolled in a shortened match is not contending.....if it was a full length game you would have gone down by 10+ goals.

Chris Scott has proven he is a semi-final warrior....but when it's time to perform on the big stage, you're miles off.

 

[demondavey]

The middle three are already getting pretty close.

Hawkins was AA, he is going fine.

 

[blaisee]

It’s always the bottom 6-8 players that let the cats down, nowhere near good enough

Z Guthrie, gets finals every year and does nothing

tonight, Z Guthrie, Holmes, Henderson , Rohan, Bews, Stanley, Ratagulea, Higgins not good enough

But Scott himself is completely insane, his performance in the presser was just bizarre, always has a heap of excuses, no class

 

[tropicaltiger]

It’s always the bottom 6-8 players that let the cats down, nowhere near good enough

Z Guthrie, gets finals every year and does nothing

tonight, Z Guthrie, Holmes, Henderson , Rohan, Bews, Stanley, Ratagulea, Higgins not good enough

But Scott himself is completely insane, his performance in the presser was just bizarre, always has a heap of excuses, no class

agree scott tonight sounded like he aint playin with the full deck

 

[demondavey]

44 point lead is a smashing at that point of the game. I'm not really sure what you mean by "a normal run". Do I need to fish my tin-foil hat out of the cupboard to understand what you mean?



Sure, and that's why I'd consider changing coach. They keep losing to teams in finals they've often been good enough to beat in H&A. Sounds like their game plan in finals needs addressing. It is too early to rebuild now, and they pretty much went further all in on this last year, which now makes it even harder for them to consider an immediate rebuild. You don't rebuild after losing a prelim (despite the humiliation). I wouldn't even suggest Richmond should go a full rebuild yet, and they couldn't even make finals.

They need to definitely clean out some players that have stalled, older, or aren’t making much of an impact. Guys like Dalhaus, Higgins, Kolodjashnij, maybe even Selwood and Henderson, all could have question marks on their future.

The reality is they probably won’t, but they probably would consider a change of coach or something to break the finals rut. Scott pointed to the 2010 PF didn’t he? Well there has been 13,16,17,19,21. Five occasions where they could have had their 2011 rebound. They’ve probably left their run a bit late, personally I think 19 & 20 were the years, but they encountered Richmond. They blew last year, you’d have to look at what happened in that second half for answers. They also blew the 19 PF.

Nevertheless, with Hawkins, Cameron, Smith, Stewart, Tuohy, Henry, Dangerfield, Bews, Stanley they will most likely win a fair few games next year. Whether it’s enough for top 4, who knows, but they may have left their run too late in terms of changing finals tactics. Scott had a bit to answer for but so do a lot of the players.

 

[nut]

Waiting until the end of the broad cast last night and still no Scott presser…… and I still can’t find it … anyone got a link.

 

[nut]

It’s always the bottom 6-8 players that let the cats down, nowhere near good enough

Z Guthrie, gets finals every year and does nothing

tonight, Z Guthrie, Holmes, Henderson , Rohan, Bews, Stanley, Ratagulea, Higgins not good enough

But Scott himself is completely insane, his performance in the presser was just bizarre, always has a heap of excuses, no class

i though Zac was ok

 

[SunshineBoy]

Waiting until the end of the broad cast last night and still no Scott presser…… and I still can’t find it … anyone got a link.

Not even on the AFL site, Jesus Shocking still has influence

 

[nut]

They need to find a star with their first round pick …..

 

[nut]

Not even on the AFL site, Jesus Shocking still has influence

I can’t find it anywhere …

 

[Wallaby]

Here's an interesting one:

In 1911, a coach started at a club the year after the previous coach had taken them to a premiership and runner-up in the previous 2 years.

New coach then missed the finals in his first year, and in total, over the next 15 years his team played in 12 finals series - playing 23 finals for 9 wins, 14 losses and no flags. In fact, in 1926, the team he coached finished on top and then lost 2 straight finals to lose the premiership (weird 'challenge' system double chance. You could call it straight sets, if you want to. Also lost 2 straight in 2 other finals series.)

Jock McHale. Overall, depite supposedly coaching 'The Greatest Side of All' (definitely in the argument), his overall finals record was Won 26, lost 30.

Scott's get an OK record - other interesting figures with -ve win/loss records in finals are : Walls, Worsfold, Longmire, Bob Rose, Bobby Davis, Jack Dyer, Phonse Kyne, - there's a few. Here's a clue - when you play finals, you are ONLY playing the good sides - of course your W/L record is going to be worse than the H&A, where half the other teams are duds.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Gifted a premiership list in his first year and continual umderperformance and short term list management ever since.
Made just one grand final and were humiliated in 2020.

The list is in terrible shape

Too old with one year left tops for some of them

Bews Blicavs Dahlhaus Dangerfield Duncan fort Guthrie Hawkins Henderson Higgins Jenkins (lol) Mengelola Rohan Selwood Smith Stanley Stewart Touhy

And that’s without considering underperforming younger players like constable z Guthrie kolodjashnij Krueger miers narkle Simpson brownless

So for the future that really leaves Henry Clarke ratugolea and parfitt (and there’s talk of him leaving)

Amazingly they have seven zero gamers on their list and another eight who have played less than twenty ( most of them less than five) . Scott is culpable.