Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[sprockets]

Think DNA linked to Ciara (confirming underwear found at gravesite..) must say strange to have her initials on them but in an article I thought it stated that it was her handwriting.
Glad this piece of is off the street albeit too late for so many

DNA linked to Ciara had me thinking, was it linked to her or was it hers? "Linked" could suggest it was her killer's but on her underwear. This might be where her wearing stockings comes into play. If she wore them as Shelly described then the outer pair may not have had her DNA on them. It might also mean that someone other than the killer had her underwear but put it at the grave as a sick joke, as suggested elsewhere. If she wasn't wearing stockings chances are it was the latter scenario, unless she was carrying a spare pair, which would be unusual (but not impossible), especially if she had no plans to sleep anywhere else but her home that night.

 

[imho]

Think DNA linked to Ciara (confirming underwear found at gravesite..) must say strange to have her initials on them but in an article I thought it stated that it was her handwriting.
Glad this piece of is off the street albeit too late for so many

ciara had recently returned from travels ; if she'd shared accommodation and facilities, then perhaps not so strange to have marked items with initials.
(i see you have posted similarly, kurve ^)
for some, handwriting is not difficult to emulate, and initials even easier perhaps for whomever was in possession of her undies to place at the gravesite.
just my thoughts.
but i too am happy he's off the streets, if only for the assault, rapes, and home invasion to which he plead his guilt.
in the face of him not pleading guilt to the murders, he is almost out of time to appeal those convictions
... is the consensus that he will?

imho SNAP, kurve

 

[one eyed spy]

i find it perplexing that when JR's badly decomposed remains were found, SS was also listed as a recent missing person,
yet police were immediately able to identify the remains as being those of JR ;
how could police be so certain it was not SS?
imho

Belly ring

 

[zedx]

That's nearly three years after the last murder he was going back there, it says a lot about his arrogance and contempt.

And that he did have a trophies stash.

Good point about the trophy stash !! But where is it now?????

 

[zedx]

DNA linked to Ciara had me thinking, was it linked to her or was it hers? "Linked" could suggest it was her killer's but on her underwear. This might be where her wearing stockings comes into play. If she wore them as Shelly described then the outer pair may not have had her DNA on them. It might also mean that someone other than the killer had her underwear but put it at the grave as a sick joke, as suggested elsewhere. If she wasn't wearing stockings chances are it was the latter scenario, unless she was carrying a spare pair, which would be unusual (but not impossible), especially if she had no plans to sleep anywhere else but her home that night.

ok, so the question here is 'What does linked exactly mean?'

 

[Kurve]

Good point about the trophy stash !! But where is it now?????

It might have been right under everybody's noses the whole time, buried in the sand at Karrakatta?

 

[Deva]

I'm not sure how that factors into the equation though regardless?
If they were left at her gravesite they are either a sick joke by someone unrelated who thought it was funny to do & they aren't hers (yes, they exist), or they are hers & the obvious answer to having found them at the grave is the killer left them.
Spare pair, wearing 2 pairs, same diff...no? If the family said they believe they were hers, someone got them from her & left them there after she disappeared. Stockings are irrelevant I'd think unless they had decided that was the only reason she may have had 2 pairs with her? Or, stockings were found as well?

There was talk of a tampon at one stage with Ciara, so to have a spare pair of Knickers in her work Satchel wouldnt be unusual at all.

 

[Fifty n Closing]

i'm confused.
underwear DNA linked to ciara, how and when?
was the underwear linked by ciara's own DNA
at the time of being found at karrakatta?
OR was it linked to ciara by the eventual DNA sample from her fingernail, which was not tested until years later, and later again found to match DNA on the kimono when it resurfaced?






if stockings were found,
they may have been Ciara's.

they may also have been brought and discarded
by the perpetrator who possibly used to bind and gag, or wear over their own head to disguise own facial features.

i find it perplexing that when JR's badly decomposed remains were found, SS was also listed as a recent missing person,
yet police were immediately able to identify the remains as being those of JR ;
how could police be so certain it was not SS?


imho

Detectives did collect many items and personal effects from all three of the girls houses/cars/workplaces etc for DNA testing to obtain their profile and reference samples during the weeks following their disappearance etc, I'm not sure of the time lines but based on how its written in the WA Today article but you would hope they would have been able to match her underwear DNA found at the cemetery to some good existing DNA references of hers already held by that time (discounting other than as technology continued to evolve etc).

Very hard to have a lot of faith in the investigation for a long period of it but you would hope that it's not suggesting that it took a few years after her underwear was located and tested in 2000 to then establish with certainty that they did belong to Ciara andddd then police went about their covert surveillance etc, surely not? Would be interesting to know by what year the likes of Karrakatta Cemetery was fully equipped with CCTV etc (well I'm only assuming that it is? it still might not be, it's not really a place I've thankfully had to spend much time at to know whether it is or isn't.

 

[BonzaRam]

The underwear was linked to CG not BRE so I think they matched CGs DNA with DNA on the underwear and yes there would be even if they are second pair because she would use her hands to put them on. There was case where they found the DNA of a factory worker who packaged clothing and his DNA was found on the clothing of a victim although he had never met that person ever.
I am inclined to agree with Deva's scenario as I have known a few ladies who do carry a spare pair at that time of the month because accidents happen.

As for her initials on them I agree with Kurve on that. It reminds of my boarding school days when every single thing we owned had our name tags on them.

Kurve makes an excellent point about the stash possibly being at or near the cemetery, especially seen as he is connected to that cemetery in many other ways.

I have never been to Karrakatta Cemetery so am not aware of what is in there, or near by. Is it possible that SS may have been hidden someone in there? Any mausoleums or such in there?

 

[Kurve]

We can have the book discussion with spoilers in here:

Solved - Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.

Here is Claremont Murders - Part One Part Two and Part Three - Media - The Bunker

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Kurve]

I have never been to Karrakatta Cemetery so am not aware of what is in there, or near by. Is it possible that SS may have been hidden someone in there? Any mausoleums or such in there?

I haven't been in there but back in the old threads we did quite a bit of research on the layout at Karrakatta, it looked very big on the maps where each section that I saw in pics seemed as if it had it's own personality, if that's the right word for it. Lots of hiding places, big patches of vegetation and over at the HH side, what seemed like bushland.

What struck me looking at the evidence pics of where the KK attack took place was that the soil looked very sandy and soft.

 

[one eyed spy]

I haven't been in there but back in the old threads we did quite a bit of research on the layout at Karrakatta, it looked very big on the maps where each section that I saw in pics seemed as if it had it's own personality, if that's the right word for it. Lots of hiding places, big patches of vegetation and over at the HH side, what seemed like bushland.

What struck me looking at the evidence pics of where the KK attack took place was that the soil looked very sandy and soft.

We dont have "soil" as such, like you have in the east. The whole state is pretty much sand.
Spot on about the areas in the cemetery having its own personality too.

 

[Willow weeps]

From memory, MACRO asked for all log books of cars from Telstra but not one logbook & details about BRE was ever in the ones received. Telstra effed up big time & tried to cover their tracks & the ones from the former Telecom owners. They knew something because why else would BRE & only BRE's files & data not be in with every other employee of Telstra

 

[Kurve]

I just saw in the news today how a woman reported in the 80s being masturbated in front of in huntingdale. down near the creek. Is this all old news now or does it have any relevance for further reports of similar incidents in that area?

It's relevant looking back over the investigation and into BRE's history of offending which started a lot earlier than the Huntingdale charge he pleaded guilty to. He'd been menacing the area for a long time and escalating.

 

[Kurve]

Speaking of his offending in the 80s, we've had witness Glenys Newport mentioned in the article below engaging in here for some time. With Glenys's permission, as Likeamystery . It must have been quite stressful to realise you were targeted by someone who went on to become a serial killer.

It recounts young mother Glenys Newport’s encounter near Huntingdale with a teen she is sure was Edwards, although the crime has never been solved and no charges ever laid.
“He rode past us [on his bicycle], then rode down the embankment at the side of the bridge, put down his bike and looked back at me and masturbated,” Ms Newport said.
“He looked me in the eye – he was doing it to me.
“The police back then were very interested – they said other people had reported the same teenager, but that they had been unable to catch him.”

 

[Likeamystery]

 

[Likeamystery]

I just saw in the news today how a woman reported in the 80s being masturbated in front of in huntingdale. down near the creek. Is this all old news now or does it have any relevance for further reports of similar incidents in that area?

Yes, that's right, the Gosnells police were looking for BRE when he was a teenager. During the 1980s I lived in Huntingdale and had reported a teenager in Sept 1985. He rode a bicycle around the Southern River near the Gosnells high school. When I reported him, other people had already reported him. The police and I didn't know who he was or where he lived. Looks like I'm the only one who's come forward. Looks like I'm going to be standing on my own!

 

[zedx]

Yes, that's right, the Gosnells police were looking for BRE when he was a teenager. During the 1980s I lived in Huntingdale and had reported a teenager in Sept 1985. He rode a bicycle around the Southern River near the Gosnells high school. When I reported him, other people had already reported him. The police and I didn't know who he was or where he lived. Looks like I'm the only one who's come forward. Looks like I'm going to be standing on my own!

Good on you for coming forward !! Hopefully others will follow now you have made this public xx

 

[one eyed spy]

There was talk of a tampon at one stage with Ciara, so to have a spare pair of Knickers in her work Satchel wouldnt be unusual at all.

The reason for a 2nd pair of undies being in her possession & subsequently found wasn't my quandary. There's plenty of reasons a girl may take a spare pair with her.
I was questioning their relevance to a suggestion that finding them may have been the catalyst for the police querying if she was wearing stockings or not.
In other words, I didn't see how finding a pair of her underwear would lead to them asking if she was wearing stockings or not, unless they found stockings too.

 

[zedx]

The reason for a 2nd pair of undies being in her possession & subsequently found wasn't my quandary. There's plenty of reasons a girl may take a spare pair with her.
I was questioning their relevance to a suggestion that finding them may have been the catalyst for the police querying if she was wearing stockings or not.
In other words, I didn't see how finding a pair of her underwear would lead to them asking if she was wearing stockings or not, unless they found stockings too.

They must have found stockings in some way related to her (not necessarily with her DNA on them but possibly near her body or grave?), or they wouldn't have asked such a random question, surely?

 

[GreyCrow]

From memory, MACRO asked for all log books of cars from Telstra but not one logbook & details about BRE was ever in the ones received. Telstra effed up big time & tried to cover their tracks & the ones from the former Telecom owners. They knew something because why else would BRE & only BRE's files & data not be in with every other employee of Telstra

How do we know others werent missed?

Yes Telstra - or a senior employee - made omissions but was BREs the only name left off?

 

[Pamcake1]

Is today the day that the Appeal window closes? I think it is from memory, in which case........

 

[one eyed spy]

How do we know others werent missed?

Yes Telstra - or a senior employee - made omissions but was BREs the only name left off?

Plenty were left off at least in the first request as they asked for Telstra branded cars & driver details. They were all still Telecom branded & none of those were provided.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

i'm confused.
underwear DNA linked to ciara, how and when?
was the underwear linked by ciara's own DNA
at the time of being found at karrakatta?
OR was it linked to ciara by the eventual DNA sample from her fingernail, which was not tested until years later, and later again found to match DNA on the kimono when it resurfaced?
if stockings were found,
they may have been Ciara's.
they may also have been brought and discarded
by the perpetrator who possibly used to bind and gag, or wear over their own head to disguise own facial features.

i find it perplexing that when JR's badly decomposed remains were found, SS was also listed as a recent missing person,
yet police were immediately able to identify the remains as being those of JR ;
how could police be so certain it was not SS?

imho

Wondering if it was to do with JR's height that they could be certain it wasn't SS? Just a thought.

 

[Deva]

I haven't been in there but back in the old threads we did quite a bit of research on the layout at Karrakatta, it looked very big on the maps where each section that I saw in pics seemed as if it had it's own personality, if that's the right word for it. Lots of hiding places, big patches of vegetation and over at the HH side, what seemed like bushland.

What struck me looking at the evidence pics of where the KK attack took place was that the soil looked very sandy and soft.

I visit relatives in Karrakatta and where the KK attack was, is sandy and back around the maintenance area. Where Jane is, is a lovely lawned Rose Garden and Ciara is in beautiful lawned area as well.