Current Claremont Murders - The Bunker

[JezzaPerth]

Re-reading the decision on the admissibility of evidence from the last hearing 21-22Oct19, we may have to reconsider him going back to Huntingdale. According to DF and EC, they both still lived there at the time & I think I recall a Water Corp bill or something similar being produced to back that up in trial.
Finished 3 hours earlier than BRE & started 2 hours later!
Why would they go to work together! I'd suggest his wife was mistaken. She said she recalled it was a really hot day and he came to fix the aircon before work arriving at their house at 7.20am. We know it wasn't a hot day & it makes no sense he'd turn up in Thornlie 40mins before he's due to start work in West Perth & planned to fix the aircon first as well. I think she has her days mixed up.

The key date is January 26 1996. The DF and EB statements are contradictory. From WASC 418

EB eventually moved out to be with DF in early 1996. After this the accused was living at the former matrimonial home in Huntingdale on his own​

...​

In February 1996 EB went to the former matrimonial home to pick up her dog and some belongings.​

...​

DF decided to stay but moved about a month later in February 1996. He continued to see EB and she eventually moved in with him around February or March 1996.​

​

Edit: But:​

​

On a day leading up to Australia Day 1996 the accused attended unannounced at EB's mother's house and asked if she wished to accompany him to the Australia Day fireworks to be held in Mandurah. She declined to attend the fireworks with him. ​

 

[Likeamystery]

I’ve tried to include two posts at once, but haven't been successful, please accept my apologies.

OES - Yes, there appears to be some confusion with regard to the Dumas work day. Thanks to the supervisor who kept notes, we can be sure BRE started work at 8am and finished at 9.45pm.

Jezza – the dates EB and DF gave are certainly conflicting. I’ve been keeping notes and had read, way back, they separated toward the end of 1995. Thinking DF possibly moved out in Jan 1996. I'm proposing ... DF decided to stay but moved about a month later in February January 1996.

I wonder if throughout the marriage, when disagreements had occurred Wife No. 1 went to stay with her parents, back and forth. Thinking such a situation may have occurred at the time of the KK crime.

Also, something that came to mind, it’s possible the vehicle may have sustained some damage. If there was a cage in the exterior, and someone had been tied to it, they’d try to dislodge themselves. Thinking any damage to the cage would take some explaining.

Sat 27 Jan 1996 AM - The vehicles whereabouts are unknown to us, which doesn't necessarily mean it was in Huntingdale, nor it needed a wash. Alternative scenarios included: Damage, bogged, broken down somewhere. Though, he certainly wasn't in a hurry to get home - finishing work at 9.45pm on 27th.

 

[Likeamystery]

Whilst driving within the Huntingdale suburb, along Warton Rd, I’ve noticed there’s a parcel of bushland surrounded by fencing and not accessible to the public. The actual house is situated on Gay St with acreage of virgin bushland. I’ve provided a map as an example - nearest small road - Thornbill Rd.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/plac...05924f3bbcff95!8m2!3d-32.084559!4d115.9547828

Back in the 1990s that acreage was only accessible from Gay St (not Warton Rd).

Perhaps SS could be closer than previously thought, given the timeframe constraint. What would be so strange to think a body had been placed near to the home, when we consider that other SKs have buried their victims under their own houses, in order to keep control of them. i.e. VCs Fred West and John Wayne Gacy.

Teenage Rose West's dark warning to her parents about what Fred was capable of

Fred and Rose West were responsible for 12 murders with many of their victims buried at their home at 25 Cromwell Street, Gloucester

www.mirror.co.uk

John Wayne Gacy: The “Killer Clown”

John Wayne Gacy was one of the worst serial killers in U.S. history, murdering at least 33 teenage boys and young men.

www.biography.com

 

[JezzaPerth]

Whilst driving within the Huntingdale suburb, along Warton Rd, I’ve noticed there’s a parcel of bushland surrounded by fencing and not accessible to the public. The actual house is situated on Gay St with acreage of virgin bushland. I’ve provided a map as an example - nearest small road - Thornbill Rd.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/plac...05924f3bbcff95!8m2!3d-32.084559!4d115.9547828

Back in the 1990s that acreage was only accessible from Gay St (not Warton Rd).

Perhaps SS could be closer than previously thought, given the timeframe constraint. What would be so strange to think a body had been placed near to the home, when we consider that other SKs have buried their victims under their homes, in order to keep control of them. i.e. VCs Fred West and John Wayne Gacy.

Teenage Rose West's dark warning to her parents about what Fred was capable of

Fred and Rose West were responsible for 12 murders with many of their victims buried at their home at 25 Cromwell Street, Gloucester

www.mirror.co.uk

John Wayne Gacy: The “Killer Clown”

John Wayne Gacy was one of the worst serial killers in U.S. history, murdering at least 33 teenage boys and young men.

www.biography.com

The problem with that theory is that people are constantly roaming in bush areas near housing. Either the body was buried well or that wasn't the site.

Another heuristic to add is the body will not be in any area presently zoned urban housing - unless it's buried.

 

[Likeamystery]

The problem with that theory is that people are constantly roaming in bush areas near housing. Either the body was buried well or that wasn't the site.

Another heuristic to add is the body will not be in any area presently zoned urban housing - unless it's buried.

The particular piece of land I'm referring to has fencing around the entire perimetre.

 

[Likeamystery]

Good point about BRE possibly stealing clothing in this area too,I hadn't even thought about this before!! I wonder if this has been looked into? Probably not

Can anyone remember the article about the man who was seen at Rowe Park. From memory a man had seen another man at Rowe Park - MBing out in the open, within the park. It was thought to be near to where the KK victim had been abducted. I think there was mention about clothing which had gone missing from that area too.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Despite all the flak in the CSK trial, I can't see much difference between the 2020 Yanchep investigation scene and the Ciara Glennon site in 1997 - except in 1997 they wore gloves.


2020 Yanchep



1997 Pipidinny Rd (South of Yanchep and site of Ciara Glennon murder)

 

[Deva]

Despite all the flak in the CSK trial, I can't see much difference between the 2020 Yanchep investigation scene and the Ciara Glennon site in 1997 - except in 1997 they wore gloves.

View attachment 909341
2020 Yanchep

View attachment 909342

1997 Pipidinny Rd (South of Yanchep and site of Ciara Glennon murder)

Lets hope Buckland revealed her whereabouts before he died yesterday, looks promising after they said its close to where he buried his girlfriend Victoria Robinson a year later after Radina went missing
That's why i have always thought Sarah is in Wellard somewhere, because he put Jane there thinking it was safe that Sarah hadn't been found there.

 

[zedx]

Despite all the flak in the CSK trial, I can't see much difference between the 2020 Yanchep investigation scene and the Ciara Glennon site in 1997 - except in 1997 they wore gloves.

View attachment 909341
2020 Yanchep

View attachment 909342

1997 Pipidinny Rd (South of Yanchep and site of Ciara Glennon murder)

True, you would think with all the CSK problems regarding contamination they would be all suited up! Especially now that we know how easily contamination can occur. Although a different situation, I can't imagine how horrified the man who found the telstra knife felt went he found out his DNA was found on intimate swabs taken from JR's body!!

 

[JezzaPerth]

Reconsidering the case on a lazy Sunday afternoon, I've realised a systemic mistake in assumptions by the Judge, Prosecution and Defence. That is that the CSK dumped the bodies in an effort to hide them and was only foiled by pure luck. That's a bad assumption.

The facts are that the Pipidinny Rd dump was literally metres away from a well known fly tipping site. It was inevitable the body would be discovered. It's just lucky it was discovered early enough that DNA evidence was retained.

The Wellard site was similarly not chosen for the disappearance of Jane. She was just dumped at a conveniently woody location right beside a horse yard and a road. It wouldn't have been long till she was discovered. It's actually surprising it took so long.

The Karakatta attack was also carried out in a place that was easily discoverable. Dumping KK in the bushes is entirely consistent with the dumping of CG and JR. No real thought at all.

So the conclusion is: assuming BRE is the CSK, that BRE either didn't think the process through (quite possible given his history as the Huntingdale Prowler and Hollywood Hospital); or he didn't give a s**t - that is he chose the locations for isolation during the murders and made little to no effort to conceal the bodies. There is the even nastier option that he wanted the bodies to be discovered for future self gratification - but that would require some degree of intelligence and planning which he has avoided showing so far in his life.

 

[Eaglette01]

It's just lucky it was discovered early enough that DNA evidence was retained.

I agree it was luck that both JR (edit: & CG) were found so quickly.

Interesting Fact: A woman (Mrs Thomas a school teacher) disappeared in Thornlie (next suburb to Huntingdale) near Spring Road and it took years and years to find Mrs Thomas' body. She had walked into the scrub herself near the Canning River and collapsed/drowned in shallow water. I/we played down at that Canning River near the train bridge all through the 1970's and she was lying there all that time. As children; we never ventured into the thick dense scrub though. Coroner/Police indicated there was no foul-play to Mrs Thomas' family. I cannot locate the dates for her disappearance (suicide) to the date her body was found (approx. 20 years later). But, Mrs Thomas lived close by to Spring Road and the river was searched to no avail at the time of her disappearance. Everyone in Thornlie knew of this case.

Re: SS - leads me to think - putting any body near a thick swamp/woody location. Nobody will find for quite some time in Perth - if ever (pretty obvious) as there are many many many locations in Perth which are swampy.

Eg: Upon searching for info on Mrs Thomas - coincidently I found this Coroner's Report. His body was in a similar location for a week and Police had seen him running near the river before he was found.

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Williams%20(Thomas).pdf

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Reconsidering the case on a lazy Sunday afternoon, I've realised a systemic mistake in assumptions by the Judge, Prosecution and Defence. That is that the CSK dumped the bodies in an effort to hide them and was only foiled by pure luck. That's a bad assumption.

The facts are that the Pipidinny Rd dump was literally metres away from a well known fly tipping site. It was inevitable the body would be discovered. It's just lucky it was discovered early enough that DNA evidence was retained.

The Wellard site was similarly not chosen for the disappearance of Jane. She was just dumped at a conveniently woody location right beside a horse yard and a road. It wouldn't have been long till she was discovered. It's actually surprising it took so long.

The Karakatta attack was also carried out in a place that was easily discoverable. Dumping KK in the bushes is entirely consistent with the dumping of CG and JR. No real thought at all.

So the conclusion is: assuming BRE is the CSK, that BRE either didn't think the process through (quite possible given his history as the Huntingdale Prowler and Hollywood Hospital); or he didn't give a sh*t - that is he chose the locations for isolation during the murders and made little to no effort to conceal the bodies. There is the even nastier option that he wanted the bodies to be discovered for future self gratification - but that would require some degree of intelligence and planning which he has avoided showing so far in his life.

All great thoughts Jezza. I remembered this comment from Paul Ferguson so I went looking for it.

"The fact that the body was just dumped could mean a number of things. First and foremost it means he's arrogant... He wanted the body found," Paul Ferguson said.

Why we didn't catch the Claremont killer

The former head of the Western Australian Police task-force responsible for catching the notorious Claremont killer has spoken out about the investigation that never hit its mark.

au.news.yahoo.com

 

[BFew]

The fact that the body was just dumped could mean a number of things.

Like maybe that he had plans to try and plant evidence on the body to try and falsely incriminate someone else?

 

[GreyCrow]

Like maybe that he had plans to try and plant evidence on the body to try and falsely incriminate someone else?

Not particularly

There have been studies on the psychology of body dumping and how they change over time within individual SKs

ie for the 1st - time is taken and the body hidden as they are driven by fear and panic. They make sure to do the best for the body not to be found.

As they progress and it becomes a matter of wanting to relive the crime , disposal is geared towards the body being found - but not so quickly as to leave memories

But in each case the finding of the bodies is important as it highlights the power they once had over another person. So they relive that

 

[Likeamystery]

Pauline Walter went missing in June 1980 and her body wasn't discovered until May 1986, she was murdered. Armadale shire employees found her skeletal remains whilst clearing an open road drain at Rowley Rd Forrestdale. Back then, Rowley Rd was a very quiet road with farming type properties - it's a long road. I suppose if someone is placed within an open drain and slightly covered with natural vegetation the local residents who happened to walk past may have thought the odour was a decomposing kangaroo and avoided the area.

There's still lots of open drainage within Southern River and Forrestdale etc. Huntingdale west near Gay St, had open drainage too but that's all been piped underground.

Thinking if the accused is responsible for SS disappearance she's somewhere in the native bushland, a similar distance from Perth to the other two disposals. One thing we do know, is that she's not buried because the accused is far too lazy to pick up a shovel!

 

[BFew]

Doctor Who regenerated about 12 times.

Has anybody seen a Tardis on here*?

* apart from the intriguing Tardis mentioned in one of the CSK evidence witnesses obituaries.

 

[one eyed spy]

So, on Fri 26 Jan the accused had dinner with Wife No. 1s family and she chose not to watch the fireworks with him, so he left (about 9pm).

Did he have dinner with them that night? Edit. And was it definitely the Mandurah fireworks he was speaking of?
AFAIK, the only person to claim the dinner was on Australia Day & that was were he wanted he to go on that night was Barbagallo & she doesn't count.

Ex wife 1 doesn't know when it was & doesn't remember what she did on Australia Day. Nothing identified which fireworks the discussion referred or when they were. It may have gone to their theory he attacks vulnerable women in response to emotional stressors but it wasn't backed by the testimony. So much so, they dropped it.

Day 85 "Ms Barbagallo has now informed the court the state will no longer be seeking to have its 'emotional upset' evidence submitted to trial."

 

[Likeamystery]

Did he have dinner with them that night? Edit. And was it definitely the Mandurah fireworks he was speaking of?
AFAIK, the only person to claim the dinner was on Australia Day & that was were he wanted he to go on that night was Barbagallo & she doesn't count.

Ex wife 1 doesn't know when it was & doesn't remember what she did on Australia Day. Nothing identified which fireworks the discussion referred or when they were. It may have gone to their theory he attacks vulnerable women in response to emotional stressors but it wasn't backed by the testimony. So much so, they dropped it.

Day 85 "Ms Barbagallo has now informed the court the state will no longer be seeking to have its 'emotional upset' evidence submitted to trial."

Good points, thank you for the clarification. As you've pointed out I don't know if BRE had gone to wife no 1 asking her out to the fireworks or if he had dinner with her and the family.

I suppose remembering what happened twenty years beforehand is quite difficult, but as Australia Day is a memorable day, I would have thought memory recall for wife no 1 might have been possible or clear enough to remember.

As Wife no 1 had moved on with a new partner, it would make sense she spent twenty years trying to blank BRE from her memory.

 

[zedx]

Did he have dinner with them that night? Edit. And was it definitely the Mandurah fireworks he was speaking of?
AFAIK, the only person to claim the dinner was on Australia Day & that was were he wanted he to go on that night was Barbagallo & she doesn't count.

Ex wife 1 doesn't know when it was & doesn't remember what she did on Australia Day. Nothing identified which fireworks the discussion referred or when they were. It may have gone to their theory he attacks vulnerable women in response to emotional stressors but it wasn't backed by the testimony. So much so, they dropped it.

Day 85 "Ms Barbagallo has now informed the court the state will no longer be seeking to have its 'emotional upset' evidence submitted to trial."

So much time has passed, it is reasonable that some one could forget exactly what they were doing on Australia Day over 20 years ago. i know I can't remember and why would you unless it was a special occasion. Obviously she had no suspicions he was the CSK and didn't notice any dodgy or questionable behavior.

 

[BFew]

Good points, thank you for the clarification. As you've pointed out I don't know if BRE had gone to wife no 1 asking her out to the fireworks or if he had dinner with her and the family.

I suppose remembering what happened twenty years beforehand is quite difficult, but as Australia Day is a memorable day, I would have thought memory recall for wife no 1 might have been possible or clear enough to remember.

As Wife no 1 had moved on with a new partner, it would make sense she spent twenty years trying to blank BRE from her memory.

Ok time to fess up!

Who can remember what they were doing on Australia Day 1996, or which fireworks they went to see on the Australia Day Long weekend 1996?

1996 was NOT a year I am trying to forget.
Was one of my best (so far).

I clearly remember that I was not in a long term or exclusive relationship in early 1996, so don't have anyone to go try ask what we did that long weekend.

Can't remember anything about what I did on Australia Day 1996, despite having wracked my brains a few times over this in the last few years.
And not having found my personal diary from that year, that might have noted what I was meant to be doing that long weekend.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Ok time to fess up!

Who can remember what they were doing on Australia Day 1996, or which fireworks they went to see on the Australia Day Long weekend 1996?

1996 was NOT a year I am trying to forget.
Was one of my best (so far).

I clearly remember that I was not in a long term or exclusive relationship in early 1996, so don't have anyone to go try ask what we did that long weekend.

Can't remember anything about what I did on Australia Day 1996, despite having wracked my brains a few times over this in the last few years.
And not having found my personal diary from that year, that might have noted what I was meant to be doing that long weekend.

On Australia Day 1996 I was on level 31 St Martins Tower with a group of work colleagues. At some stage we had to move because of a laser show.
The wine served included Houghtons Classic Dry white and the nibbles were revolting pea based things due to a fascist vegan running the catering.
I drove there in a 1989 Mitusibshi Galant. Getting home was a nightmare due to the traffic.

 

[Likeamystery]

On Australia Day 1996 I was on level 31 St Martins Tower with a group of work colleagues. At some stage we had to move because of a laser show.
The wine served included Houghtons Classic Dry white and the nibbles were revolting pea based things due to a fascist vegan running the catering.
I drove there in a 1989 Mitusibshi Galant. Getting home was a nightmare due to the traffic.

Good memory Jezza,
Almost every year we've gone somewhere to see the fireworks. Sometimes Perth, and other times watched from the hills, but in latter years it's been Armadale. I wouldn't be able to give decisive dates, except for a handful of those within the recent years.
One year, the Perth ones on a barge at Swan River, caught fire as it was such a stinking hot day. Also, at Armadale a tree caught alight when all the ducks took off.

 

[Likeamystery]

Ok time to fess up!

Who can remember what they were doing on Australia Day 1996, or which fireworks they went to see on the Australia Day Long weekend 1996?

1996 was NOT a year I am trying to forget.
Was one of my best (so far).

I clearly remember that I was not in a long term or exclusive relationship in early 1996, so don't have anyone to go try ask what we did that long weekend.

Can't remember anything about what I did on Australia Day 1996, despite having wracked my brains a few times over this in the last few years.
And not having found my personal diary from that year, that might have noted what I was meant to be doing that long weekend.

Good points BFew,

There's only certain things we remember, and usually those that relate to something meaningful. Unlike Jezza who's probably got a photographic memory

I think it might be time to change my avatar, people might really think I'm a 70-year-old, dope, smoking grandmother.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Good memory Jezza,
Almost every year we've gone somewhere to see the fireworks. Sometimes Perth, and other times watched from the hills, but in latter years it's been Armadale. I wouldn't be able to give decisive dates, except for a handful of those within the recent years.
One year, the Perth ones on a barge at Swan River, caught fire as it was such a stinking hot day. Also, at Armadale a tree caught alight when all the ducks took off.

My memory is not actually that good. Every year I worked there we watched the Australia Day fireworks, and every year it was bloody Houghtons White Burgundy (renamed Houghton's White Classic) and the bloody pea based snacks.

 

[JezzaPerth]

Good points BFew,

There's only certain things we remember, and usually those that relate to something meaningful. Unlike Jezza who's probably got a photographic memory

Not quite. I have an uncanny ability to forget people's names and I only remember the faces of some of those who have been particularly annoying.