Class of 2000

[tribey]

Originally posted by Porthos
Since 1995 compare these top 40 picks....

Brett Burton (#16), James Thiessen (#33), Bryan Beinke (#34), Rhett Biglands (#36), Luke Jericho (#32) - 2/5 real players

with

Tom Gilligan (#13), Lance Picioane (#17), Tyson Stenglein (#29), David Gallagher (#32), Laurence Angwin (#7), Michael Handby (#38), Brent Reilly (#12), Brent Williams (#18), Kane Johnson (#27)

The difference is, the army of non-SA picks you mention here were all highly rated u18 All-Australian players... apart from Sugar and Stinger, with a bit of luck they really could have and should have gone the other way in their development.

Brent Williams was the 1994 U18 All-Australian CHF... what was his problem? He really coulda/shoulda been a contender...

The likes of Thiessen (Richmond), Bienke (North Melbourne) and Biglands (Port Adelaide) had all been delisted from AFL clubs in the past, and apart from the pleasant surprise that Biggles has become, were always destined to struggle or be bits'n'pieces players... as for Jericho, well I think his walls came down... boom boom.

I don't know what the answer is. We've certainly gotten very lucky with the likes of Burton and Johncock... but our other selections across the board seem to have been very very poor.

While our non-SA first and second round picks have been generally disappointing - ok, very disappointing - it still has to be our first port of call IMO... unless of course an obvious future force such as a Tredrea, Cooney, Cornes, Ottens or Dutchy comes along.

Cripes I just don't know. I'm just tired of seeing obvious crap drafted from the SANFL that was/is never going to be anything more than 3-8 game a year players - and even then its off the bench.

At least with top-line Vic U18 talent you know you're in with a real shout of something good if you're lucky.

 

[naughty monkey]

the real answer is that the Crows suck at developing players in recent times.

The only thing we seem competent at is producing mediocre midfielders.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by ****
Is this a joke.

That's embarrassing.


****

You're forgetting how good Thiessen was in 1998.

 

[Thunderstruck]

You certainly are forgetting how good he was in 1998, played many great games on the wing for us including the Grand final i do believe.

AS for the local talent.....I did say talent...the ones uve listed there apart from Cicolella have NO talent at all! So why bother draftign THEM when others have been missed. Cicolella is worth AFL right now, he got about 3 games and averaged 17 touches in them abouts....wasn't givena fair go at all. He'd average around 20 a game if he was still here.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by Thunderstruck
AS for the local talent.....I did say talent...the ones uve listed there apart from Cicolella have NO talent at all! So why bother draftign THEM when others have been missed. Cicolella is worth AFL right now, he got about 3 games and averaged 17 touches in them abouts....wasn't givena fair go at all. He'd average around 20 a game if he was still here.

Once again you underestimate the gulf between the SANFL and the AFL.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Thunderstruck
AS for the local talent.....I did say talent...the ones uve listed there apart from Cicolella have NO talent at all! So why bother draftign THEM when others have been missed. Cicolella is worth AFL right now, he got about 3 games and averaged 17 touches in them abouts....wasn't givena fair go at all. He'd average around 20 a game if he was still here.

Are you serious??????

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Thunderstruck
Cicolella is worth AFL right now, he got about 3 games and averaged 17 touches in them abouts....wasn't givena fair go at all. He'd average around 20 a game if he was still here.

Memory will beat us every time.

Cicolella played 5 games with disposals of 17, 18, 6, 6, and 4.

Total 51 - average 10.2 per game.

He started off okay and got worse. He wasn't hopeless though.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
Total 51 - average 10.2 per game.

I bet 7 of those 10 disposals didn't hit target under pressure.

Cicolella is one of those blokes that is a great SANFL player but not up to AFL standard. Ben Nelson is another one.

 

[Mong]

Originally posted by DaveW
You're forgetting how good Thiessen was in 1998.

I was just never a fan. Even in 98. Did have a good Grand Final, though. For a while there I was worried he might take the Norm.

But a recycled player like that was still likely to be around later in the draft. I don't think he needed to be taken at 32.

Or maybe I'm just being overly critical with this selection.


****

 

[Thunderstruck]

U can say what u like, he proved himself for 2 games and then was used sparingly off the bench and was never to be seen again. How many f;ing crap player get season upon season at AFL level when they cant even play SANFL/VFL properly? Look at Ross Funke..he was with Richmond and Melbourne and yet here with the Port magpies he is average to below average. Top line player at SANFL level such as Cica deserve another go.

Blokes like Golding and Herbert were shockers....there are many more.

Of course there is a large jump from SANFL to the AFL but if player like Corey Jones can do it so can others. If i can do i so can u as the saying goes.

 

[DaveW]

I thought the idea was to recruit with a goal to win premierships.

Call me crazy.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by DaveW
You're forgetting how good Thiessen was in 1998.

But he was bog-standard in his time at Richmond in the early nineties and bog-standard post-1998. You don't use a #30s draft pick on a recycled player who it turns out we only got one decent - and i stress decent, he was never anything special for us, 1998 GF included* - season out of.

As **** said, we could've got him far later in that draft... failed AFL players who are good to great in the SANFL like Theissen, Bienke, Atkinson, A. Richardson etc aren't going to be snatched by anyone but us - so why waste such a high pick?

*17 touches and a goal playing on a wing, Brett James posted identical numbers that day

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by dyertribe
But he was bog-standard in his time at Richmond in the early nineties and bog-standard post-1998. You don't use a #30s draft pick on a recycled player who it turns out we only got one decent - and i stress decent, he was never anything special for us, 1998 GF included* - season out of.
[/i]

I'll be even harsher - he was only just a footballer. Sure he had an odd reasonable game now and again, but in his 44 games with the Crows he averaged less than 13 disposals per game. His career high for the Crows was 24 disposals.

Neither of those figures are flattering for a player whose position guaranteed being in the play all day.

He was just a player - should have been a #70 upwards draft pick, not 30's.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by dyertribe
But he was bog-standard in his time at Richmond in the early nineties and bog-standard post-1998.

I don't know if he was ever best on ground terribly often, but he was handy nonetheless.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by DaveW
I don't know if he was ever best on ground terribly often, but he was handy nonetheless.

Yeah but you also said Connell and Sampson were "handy"...

 

[Thunderstruck]

Anyone who can win a club B@F is more than handy

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Re: Re: Class of 2000

Originally posted by noddy
At least there is 1 diamond in among that group.

Too bad Laurence Angwin took it with him when he went to Carlton!

 

[spindoctor]

Adam Richardson was not given a fair go.

Beinke was handy. If we had a couple of bigger players in the forward line he would have been great, he had incredibly strong hands and was good as a goalsneak for 2-3 goals a game. He also knew how to lead.

Andrew Crowell was a pretty damn reasonable utility player before his knee injury and subsequent delisting.

Ben Marsh had plenty of talent, but fell apart after injuries and Biglands & Clarke combined to wreck his career.

Luke Jericho still could be something...he is a development player, don't rag him yet.

Ricky O'Loughlin I'll never understand...he had that game where he had a blistering 10-possession first quarter, got dragged and never played a game again. Odd.

 

[Nige_Bix]

Agree re Crowell, Marsh and Bienke, but not A Richo - dont think he should have been drafted. We will need to wait a bit before we can pass judgement on Jericho. O'Loughlin could have been given more chances.

 

[macca23]

Adam Richardson didn't get much of a go, but he looked like a fish - a bloody big one - out of water at AFL level. Also looked surprisingly timid in the rare chances he got. He was never going to make it.

As for Beinke, it was a case of if your auntie had balls she'd be your uncle. We didn't have tall forwards to deflect the attention away from him and he was just a little too short for AFL level. Another 2 to 3 inches taller and he would have been a top class player with his strong hands and long kick.

Crowell was handy but inconsistent. He was a certainty to be delisted once he did his knee in.

I won't even bother commenting on Ben Marsh.

Jericho has a lot of talent. I was really surprised that he couldn't crack Westies A grade this year.

I remember that 10-possession first quarter of Ricky O'Loughlin's well. He got the ball well although his disposal was crap. Why he got taken off was beyond comprehension.

That wasn't his last game for the Crows though - he played another 6 over the 2000 and 2001 seasons, all of them rubbish, and was delisted at the end of 2001.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Richardson was a fish out of water. Not up to AFL standard at all. Bloody good SANFL player.

Beinke was 3 inches too short and a step too slow. Great pair of hands and a beautiful kick. One of those players trapped in a body of a robust midfielder but not being one.

Crowell was handy and was our specialist in stopping those little nippy forwards from giving us a bath. In time Jericho could be his replacement. Maybe even a better one.

Marsh was just Marsh. All the ability but no ticker.

Jericho is a project player but he better get a bloody move on. Played one game for Westies seniors this year and did well across half forward. Got into Westies best players and got dropped the following week. Beats me

Ricky O was a waste of space. We drafted him in a hope of him turning out into a player his brother is but it was never going to happen.

Cicolella was another one not up to AFL. There is no point in getting the bloody thing if you are going to kick it down oppositions throat.

We will see how we go with this year's draftees. Brent Hall, Josh Willoughby and Ricky Mott would do me fine

 

[spindoctor]

Richo played well in the pre-season, had a game where he kicked 1.4 and but for his nerves could have kicked 5.0 as they were all gettable. Had he, it might have been a different story. Then one bad half against Richmond ended his career.

I think he was given way too few chances, if you bother drafting a player like that and promoting him, it is frankly ******g ridiculous to not let him find his feet. He showed he had it there in his games, and yet after one bad half he was dropped. Ayres really ****ed meoff for doing that. Richo had being kicking bags and bags for seasons, he needed a few games and then I think he would have been right.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Richo played well in the pre-season, had a game where he kicked 1.4 and but for his nerves could have kicked 5.0 as they were all gettable. Had he, it might have been a different story. Then one bad half against Richmond ended his career.

Pre-season games mean sweet **** all when it comes to players ability because everyone is taking it easy. In the 2002 pre-season competition, Daniel Schell was averaging 3 goals per game but it doesn't mean he is up to AFL standard.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Pre-season games mean sweet **** all when it comes to players ability because everyone is taking it easy.

I remember Graham Cornes saying on 5AA once that in his first preseason game for North Melbourne he kicked a ridiculous bag of 14 or 15 goals...

As for Richo... he didn't come close to cracking it at Geelong. Bienke? Failed at North Melbourne.

The only recycled AFL player to truly stand the test of time - and be a fine contributor - has been Glenn Kilpatrick. Rhett Biglands is a close second after being delisted from the Power in late-1997.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Thunderstruck
Anyone who can win a club B@F is more than handy

Define "more than handy"... Connell always was a hack. He could find the footy sure... but he was an absolute seagull, had no left foot whatsoever and kicked nothing but lollipops.

Mick Malthouse knew it... and that's why he flicked him to an Adelaide side in the middle of its worst run of outs in its short history.

Furthermore, in judging individual ability and value awards mean nothing as the basis of that argument is too inconsistant, for instance:

*Carey has never won a Brownlow but Shane Woewodin has...
*Nigel Smart has never won a Gold Jacket...
*Darren Jarman never won a Norm Smith Medal...

Blah blah blah, yip yap yip... at the end of the day Matthew Connell may well have been the most prominent Crow in the 22 rounds that made up our season 1995 (which isn't saying much - we were absolutely awful that year) but as a player he was very very lucky to have a career that lasted as long as it did, see Ben Marsh, Ian Downsborough, Brayden Lyle, Wayne Wiedemann, et al.