Rumour Cloke wants 5 years, we say pump the brakes

[Thommo 42]

Two goals a game from a full forawrd on that money, sorry that doesn't do it for me.

Wouldn't do it for me either. Luckily for us Travis Cloke plays Centre Half Forward in every sense, and is probably the most 'traditional' CHF in the game.

Luckily for us he still covers around 15km a game even when his form is in question, constantly providing a target to defenders/midfielders under pressure, constantly crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground, constantly chasing hard at ground level, constantly going 1 v 3 in marking contests and rarely being beaten.

If you can find someone else to do that for $600k, I'm all ears.

 

[Copeland]

I'm basically over all this Cloke contract stuff. Offer him $700K /year over 4 years, take it or leave it. We are winning big games without much contribution from him over the years. And that's without even mentioning his unreliable kicking for goal. If all we are talking about is providing a target and bringing the ball to he ground for the mids and small forwards to feed off then any one of Keefe/Reid/Brown/Tarrant could do this when we don't need additional talls in defence. Even Dawes is not being outmarked up forward and is contesting the ball and bringing it to the ground and he is not playing well at all. If paying overs for Cloke means the possibility of losing one of Beams/Sidebottom/Wellingham/etc then it's not worth it. Travis, to quote Bucks "all we want to know is, are you with us?"

69 goals 48 behinds double teamed last year and the most contested marks, worth the extra money imo.

 

[Cory]

Here is the little article on Cloke in today's Sun

FREE agent Travis Cloke is a step closer to re-signing with Collingwood after the forward's management met Magpies officials yesterday.

Ralph Carr, who Cloke hired earlier in the year to handle his non-football affairs, joined Pies president Eddie McGuire and football manager Geoff Walsh at the East Melbourne offices of McGuire Media.

Cloke's other manager, his father, David, was not present yesterday, but he met separately with Walsh and recruiting manager Derek Hine on Monday.

According to The Footy Show, Cloke has told both his management and Collingwood that he wants to get a deal done as soon as possible, privately conceding the speculation was affecting his form.

Neither Carr nor Walsh commented yesterday.

Cloke's contract has been the subject of much speculation since he declared he was happy to wait until season's end to sign a new deal.

The Herald Sun last month revealed Fremantle had put an offer in excess of $1 million a year to Cloke and his management. - Matt Windley

 

[Brad Goodman]

Wouldn't do it for me either. Luckily for us Travis Cloke plays Centre Half Forward in every sense, and is probably the most 'traditional' CHF in the game.

Luckily for us he still covers around 15km a game even when his form is in question, constantly providing a target to defenders/midfielders under pressure, constantly crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground, constantly chasing hard at ground level, constantly going 1 v 3 in marking contests and rarely being beaten.

If you can find someone else to do that for $600k, I'm all ears.

This. Close to if not the best key forward in the game. His goal total from last year probably wins this year's Coleman, so I'm not sure what else he needs to do.

 

[rose jam]

This. Close to if not the best key forward in the game. His goal total from last year probably wins this year's Coleman, so I'm not sure what else he needs to do.

If he wasn't standing there other teams would just pick the ball off with intercept marks and kill us on the switch.

We can't win without him.

 

[Scodog10]

Wouldn't do it for me either. Luckily for us Travis Cloke plays Centre Half Forward in every sense, and is probably the most 'traditional' CHF in the game.

Luckily for us he still covers around 15km a game even when his form is in question, constantly providing a target to defenders/midfielders under pressure, constantly crashing packs and bringing the ball to ground, constantly chasing hard at ground level, constantly going 1 v 3 in marking contests and rarely being beaten.

If you can find someone else to do that for $600k, I'm all ears.

I personally believe his true value is around what Swoop said, but even the most unrealistic supporter would know that we'll have to pay overs to keep him.

Those overs are down to the fact that he is the only genuine CHF in today's game so clubs are willing to pay extra for him. However none of that really changes what his true value is....

The analogy I'd use is to think of Cloke as a house and his true contractural value as a houses reserve price. The house (Cloke) is in a St (AFL) with an average price of $300,000. Cloke is the best house on the St so the owners set a reserve price of $600,000, however that reserve price has absolutely no bearing on what price the house ultimately sells for.

In the end that house could go for $900,000 at auction but that doesn't mean that that's what the house is actually valued at.

 

[dansa]

$700K
4 years

No more.

 

[Thommo 42]

I personally believe his true value is around what Swoop said, but even the most unrealistic supporter would know that we'll have to pay overs to keep him.

Those overs are down to the fact that he is the only genuine CHF in today's game so clubs are willing to pay extra for him. However none of that really changes what his true value is....

The analogy I'd use is to think of Cloke as a house and his true contractural value as a houses reserve price. The house (Cloke) is in a St (AFL) with an average price of $300,000. Cloke is the best house on the St so the owners set a reserve price of $600,000, however that reserve price has absolutely no bearing on what price the house ultimately sells for.

In the end that house could go for $900,000 at auction but that doesn't mean that that's what the house is actually valued at.

This makes no sense.

If he is the only (and best) genuine CHF in the game, that makes him unique. If you know anything about supply/demand/value that drives his price through the roof. He's not just the best house on the street, he is the only house of his type available anywhere.

A better analogy would be to say all the players are diamonds, and Clokey is good clarity and 3 carats - but he's also a pink diamond. Plenty of 3 carat diamonds out there with great clarity, but this is the only pink sucker!

 

[Wooljay]

Surely his current form is working against him in driving his price up.

 

[Scodog10]

This makes no sense.

If he is the only (and best) genuine CHF in the game, that makes him unique. If you know anything about supply/demand/value that drives his price through the roof. He's not just the best house on the street, he is the only house of his type available anywhere.

No. The supply and demand for CHF's has an effect on his perceived value not his agreed value.

Pendles is a reigning B&F, Norm Smith medalist, 2 time AA and our most important player therefore his actual/ agreed value is higher than Cloke's. However because there are more gun midfielders out there his perceived value isn't as high.

We can argue until the cows come home but the reality is that a bloke that's had one elite season out of 8 isn't worth $900,000 or thereabouts a season.

 

[Thommo 42]

We're not contracting him for what he's done in the past, we're contracting him what we think he'll do in the future.

While Pendles won the B&F last year, I think Cloke had the better year myself.

 

[jonbe54]

Cloke had a his best year last year, only ongoing coaching speculation bullshit and late injuries suspension stopped us clearing up all before us and he would have been largely responsible. This year the coaches have had the off season to devise strategies against him and they have been very effective, not surprisingly after 7 or so games of battling alone against 2 or 3 opponents without any joy from the umps his confidence is starting to get a little tattered.

None of this would matter if the rest of our forward line was working as it should but that hasn't been the case and it has shown Travs trevails in high relief.

Instead of bagging the guy bag the rest of the forward line for not taking some of the load off of, or at least using the freed up man/men the 3timing him leaves and kicking goals. Also blame 2nd and even 3rd rate delivery into the forward line at times.

 

[ipswichpies]

I think this is becoming more pathetic by the day Travis has 2 choices he can go elsewhere for more money or he can stay with us for less than his perceived market value.

I don,t think we should be breaking the bank to keep him I originally thought 650 to 700 a season well maybe 750 a season over 4 yrs that sort of money would put him in the 3 with the biggest contracts at Collingwood and that is fair enough.

We do not have to match what other clubs are prepared to offer him providing the discrepancy between what he would get here and what he could elsewhere is not too big.I am against giving him 850 or 900 a season to keep him,Swan has him covered for form past 4 yrs and I think Pendles will have him covered for form next 4yrs and both players these players signed for less than they could have received elsewhere.

I will be angry if by signing cloke for more than we can afford we lose any of our young players he has to be reasonable he is worth no more or no less than Swan or Pendlebury so it is up to Travis to get it done or make other arrangements the longer it goes on the more chance it has to cost us this season we need full focus this year.

 

[TradeDraft]

I think this is becoming more pathetic by the day Travis has 2 choices he can go elsewhere for more money or he can stay with us for less than his perceived market value.

I don,t think we should be breaking the bank to keep him I originally thought 650 to 700 a season well maybe 750 a season over 4 yrs that sort of money would put him in the 3 with the biggest contracts at Collingwood and that is fair enough.

We do not have to match what other clubs are prepared to offer him providing the discrepancy between what he would get here and what he could elsewhere is not too big.I am against giving him 850 or 900 a season to keep him,Swan has him covered for form past 4 yrs and I think Pendles will have him covered for form next 4yrs and both players these players signed for less than they could have received elsewhere.

I will be angry if by signing cloke for more than we can afford we lose any of our young players he has to be reasonable he is worth no more or no less than Swan or Pendlebury so it is up to Travis to get it done or make other arrangements the longer it goes on the more chance it has to cost us this season we need full focus this year.

I agree I don't want us to over-pay Cloke.

If he wants more and only excepts more than it's On Your Bike Cloke

 

[Scodog10]

We're not contracting him for what he's done in the past, we're contracting him what we think he'll do in the future.

While Pendles won the B&F last year, I think Cloke had the better year myself.

If you don't take the past into account how do you gauge his potential for the future? Let's be honest Cloke's 2011 was Buddy's 2008 it's unlikely that either player will produce a better season for the rest of their career.

The figures that are being thrown around in the media are those of a player that will produce those numbers seasons on end (only Nick reiwoldt has managed that in the past decade). While Cloke's still been alright what he's producing right now is similar to his 07, 08 and 10 output which is roughly two thirds of what he produced in 2011.

Two thirds of $900,000 is the magical $600,000.... He'll be signed for more but only due to outside pressures which we have no control over!

 

[dansa]

I think this is becoming more pathetic by the day Travis has 2 choices he can go elsewhere for more money or he can stay with us for less than his perceived market value.

I don,t think we should be breaking the bank to keep him I originally thought 650 to 700 a season well maybe 750 a season over 4 yrs that sort of money would put him in the 3 with the biggest contracts at Collingwood and that is fair enough.

We do not have to match what other clubs are prepared to offer him providing the discrepancy between what he would get here and what he could elsewhere is not too big.I am against giving him 850 or 900 a season to keep him,Swan has him covered for form past 4 yrs and I think Pendles will have him covered for form next 4yrs and both players these players signed for less than they could have received elsewhere.

I will be angry if by signing cloke for more than we can afford we lose any of our young players he has to be reasonable he is worth no more or no less than Swan or Pendlebury so it is up to Travis to get it done or make other arrangements the longer it goes on the more chance it has to cost us this season we need full focus this year.

This sums it up for me.

 

[Cory]

Great that David wasn't at the meeting.

Good move by Travis to want it ASAP!

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I think this is becoming more pathetic by the day Travis has 2 choices he can go elsewhere for more money or he can stay with us for less than his perceived market value.

I don,t think we should be breaking the bank to keep him I originally thought 650 to 700 a season well maybe 750 a season over 4 yrs that sort of money would put him in the 3 with the biggest contracts at Collingwood and that is fair enough.

We do not have to match what other clubs are prepared to offer him providing the discrepancy between what he would get here and what he could elsewhere is not too big.I am against giving him 850 or 900 a season to keep him,Swan has him covered for form past 4 yrs and I think Pendles will have him covered for form next 4yrs and both players these players signed for less than they could have received elsewhere.

I will be angry if by signing cloke for more than we can afford we lose any of our young players he has to be reasonable he is worth no more or no less than Swan or Pendlebury so it is up to Travis to get it done or make other arrangements the longer it goes on the more chance it has to cost us this season we need full focus this year.

But none of what you say, might be true.
The issue might not even be about $, it might be about years, or 3rd party deals or something else.
And jumping at shadows by saying "if this happens or that happens" will not influence the final outcome one iota.
Have faith in people like Walsh, Eddie and Pert to get the right outcome.
Timing is irrelevant because Cloke is tied to us until 31st October if either party wants to wait until then, that is their right.

 

[ipswichpies]

But none of what you say, might be true.
The issue might not even be about $, it might be about years, or 3rd party deals or something else.
And jumping at shadows by saying "if this happens or that happens" will not influence the final outcome one iota.
Have faith in people like Walsh, Eddie and Pert to get the right outcome.
Timing is irrelevant because Cloke is tied to us until 31st October if either party wants to wait until then, that is their right.

I have full faith in the people that the run the club how could you not when you look at their performance,this little story about where Travis is playing next season is starting to have a detrimental effect on his game I don,t want it to spread to the rest of the group.We were not completely focused as a club last year and I have no wish to see it happen again this season this constant speculation helps nobody least of all Travis himself.

If as we are reading that other players are having to wait for Travis to get his deal done it is already having an adverse effect on the group,we make a fair offer a fair period of time to assess it and then he either signs it or we withdraw the offer and move on I think that is reasonable approach.

 

[Thommo 42]

at half-time in the GF he was worth $1.5m - then the midfield got smashed and it was curtains.

I think he'll stay, and I think he's entitled to somehwere between $700k and $1m pa, depending on length of contract

 

[HeavyPop]

IMO forwards are becoming less valuable to sides. Of course there are exceptions like Franklin and maybe Cloke, but with how teams use a forward press now, players who are accurate kicks and able to win their own ball are more valuable. Clarke takes a lot of his marks around 70-80m out which isn't ideal for someone with his marking prowess. I know that he has to play that role as if we don't take a mark or win the ball, the opposition will kick the ball straight back into their 50. It's a tough scenario, but I can't see how he is worth more than 750k.

With how the game is going, you would think guys like Ben Reid who can hit someone 40m away could become more valuable.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

Same s.h.i.t different year. We've all had the same discussion previously. Cloke will get what he is "worth" + an extra grand or 2. Contract will be signed and we'll all go on and support our victories.

GO PIES!

 

[bushdog89]

This is starting to s**t me! His old man needs to F##K off from proceedings altogether. Every time any Cloke had to sign a contract the old w***er was trying to squeeze more money out of the club! He is not worth 900,000! why the F##K is he manager anyway, surely someone who has skills in player management would be better because they deal with more players and know there worth. This is getting stupid! I would think the idea of the manager is to get the best deal for the player given the salary cap and various other conditions - not squeezing every penny out of the club and having a stand off.

And for Travis to say "I just want to play football" is s**t. If thats all he wanted he would have signed the contact months ago. If you just "want to play football" go play for North old boys, you wont even have to train there!
Stop being so selfish and money hungry and start getting more hungry on the field and kicking some goals!!!!!!!! Actually there is a thought - lets pay him per goal. Pull your socks up!

If he gets 750,000 p/y that is 390,000 after tax (at 48% tax bracket). If he is on 900,000 he will make 468,000 after tax - thats 78,000 difference !!! is it really worth considering changing clubs for a merely 78,000 p/y!!! (and not just another club, a s**t club like Freo) I hope someone is putting these figures in front of him!

All i want is a premiership and for Cloke to kick some goals!
Lets see an end to this savage BS!

 

[Baltimore Jack]

This is starting to s**t me! His old man needs to F##K off from proceedings altogether. Every time any Cloke had to sign a contract the old w***er was trying to squeeze more money out of the club! He is not worth 900,000! why the F##K is he manager anyway, surely someone who has skills in player management would be better because they deal with more players and know there worth. This is getting stupid! I would think the idea of the manager is to get the best deal for the player given the salary cap and various other conditions - not squeezing every penny out of the club and having a stand off.

And for Travis to say "I just want to play football" is s**t. If thats all he wanted he would have signed the contact months ago. If you just "want to play football" go play for North old boys, you wont even have to train there!
Stop being so selfish and money hungry and start getting more hungry on the field and kicking some goals!!!!!!!! Actually there is a thought - lets pay him per goal. Pull your socks up!

If he gets 750,000 p/y that is 390,000 after tax (at 48% tax bracket). If he is on 900,000 he will make 468,000 after tax - thats 78,000 difference !!! is it really worth considering changing clubs for a merely 78,000 p/y!!! (and not just another club, a s**t club like Freo) I hope someone is putting these figures in front of him!

All i want is a premiership and for Cloke to kick some goals!
Lets see an end to this savage BS!

Umm... deductions?
Plus the rate is: $54,550 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

But anyway these people aren't amateurs, he is being advised by people who are expect at this.

 

[bushdog89]

Sorry Jack - I left my tax book at home