Do we have too many players over 30 years of age?

[Maggie5]

Who is carrying them? Our younger stars like Moore & De Goey are just as woeful thus far to my eyes

Too many for a team to carry given the rest of the team.

 

[Ctracks]

That time has come. Let’s not embarrass ourselves with the mathematical chance rubbish

Not so sure with magnets in charge.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

It's still early days, but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that age is finally getting the better of us now.

This team arguably had a premiership window that stretches back to 2018, but we wasted four seasons under Buckley during this timeframe before shifting to Fly who made our dreams come true through 2022 to 2023.

If you look at 2018-2023, we won a flag, made 2 Grand Finals, 4 Prelim appearances and 5 finals in that time. 2021 was the anomaly where we imploded both on and off the field with the coach departing and the infighting at board level.

A lot of us thought Fly would rebuild the list after 2021 and start from scratch but he opted to extract everything out of the existing squad that he inherited which culminated in what we saw in his first two seasons. It's only now we might now be facing a reckoning that this era is over and we're going to have engage in a rebuild as it was originally intended.

Don't get me wrong the last two seasons were an absolute joy for us. I wouldn't trade anything for what we did in those years. Winning a flag is priceless and the way we did it was spectacular. We became the envy of the competition.

 

[domus]

No. The older players are not the main problem.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

No. The older players are not the main problem.

Pendlebury, Sidebottom & Howe were all woeful last night. They also happen to be our 3 oldest players.
Based on the first 3 games this season, and particularly last night, there should be no future contract discussions with Pendlebury.

 

[whiskeytown]

Something like 8 players over 30 each week. Time to roughly halve that number and play younger players in order to develop the next top 4 team

Now that the flag defence is 90% over… I’d get Pendles to his 400…

Sooner than that I’d phase out Sidebottom, Mitchell and Howe and replace with younger players

Others like Cox, mihocek are structurally more difficult to replace… that will take time

 

[Rusty Beam]

Something like 8 players over 30 each week. Time to roughly halve that number and play younger players in order to develop the next top 4 team

Now that the flag defence is 90% over… I’d get Pendles to his 400…

Sooner than that I’d phase out Sidebottom, Mitchell and Howe and replace with younger players

Others like Cox, mihocek are structurally more difficult to replace… that will take time

Not too dissimilar to the hard calls we made circa 2009-2011.

At some stage through that period we started to phase out champion older guys such as Lockyer, Medhurst, O’Bree etc to the VFL as depth players.

The major issue is I don’t think we have that much quality young talent to replace them.

The only real guys I see are Macrae, McInnes, Allan and in the future De Mattia & TJ.

And definitely no key position talent.

 

[doofdoof]

Not too dissimilar to the hard calls we made circa 2009-2011.

At some stage through that period we started to phase out champion older guys such as Lockyer, Medhurst, O’Bree etc to the VFL as depth players.

The major issue is I don’t think we have that much quality young talent to replace them.

The only real guys I see are Macrae, McInnes, Allan and in the future De Mattia & TJ.

I agree, but it is really hard to know when the selectors have been so reticent to give them games over the last year.

Reef should have had many of AJ's 15 games last year.

Fin should have been given games with Adams or Titch rested.

Allan should have been given exposure. Sidey could have been managed.

Not playing Fin and Reef to start this year was mind-boggling.

Continuing to play Fin for one quarter each game, with only one other extractor, is worse.

Playing the kids is win-win. Older players stay fresh, younger players learn how to play.

 

[Ugene41]

Not too dissimilar to the hard calls we made circa 2009-2011.

At some stage through that period we started to phase out champion older guys such as Lockyer, Medhurst, O’Bree etc to the VFL as depth players.

The major issue is I don’t think we have that much quality young talent to replace them.

The only real guys I see are Macrae, McInnes, Allan and in the future De Mattia & TJ.

And definitely no key position talent.

Macrae, McInnes and Allan are enough for this year. You can't have too many inexperienced kids at once or your whole system falls apart and they don't get to develop in the right environment.

We forget that Nick Daicos is a young talent in his 3rd season. That's why I'm not worried about a rebuild as I think we can rebound quickly. Not having access to our top 5-10 pick this year sets us back a year but rebuilding sides can take 4-5 drafts at the bottom to find a player anywhere close to a Naicos to take them back up.

We already have him so just need to be smart with our first round picks for the next two years and really target FA for the next big star (ideally KPP) with the abundance of salary cap we'll have as our 30+ year olds retire.

 

[barrackers]

The issue is structure, system and work rate rather than age. We had good periods in all 3 games, we just haven’t seen them often enough.

That said our improvement on 2023 was always going to come from those outside the main squad, which is mostly younger players. We need to give the likes of McInnes and Macrae opportunities to make their mark. As an example, I’m not sure why we didn’t play Macrae in the first game instead of an injured Mitchell.

 

[gouki88]

Macrae, McInnes and Allan are enough for this year. You can't have too many inexperienced kids at once or your whole system falls apart and they don't get to develop in the right environment.

We forget that Nick Daicos is a young talent in his 3rd season. That's why I'm not worried about a rebuild as I think we can rebound quickly. Not having access to our top 5-10 pick this year sets us back a year but rebuilding sides can take 4-5 drafts at the bottom to find a player anywhere close to a Naicos to take them back up.

We already have him so just need to be smart with our first round picks for the next two years and really target FA for the next big star (ideally KPP) with the abundance of salary cap we'll have as our 30+ year olds retire.

I agree that those three will be best suited for games this season. I'm also pretty interested in Sullivan, but he isn't really 'youth' per se. I think he'll be super hungry and more physically up to the demands.

 

[Ugene41]

Pendlebury, Sidebottom & Howe were all woeful last night. They also happen to be our 3 oldest players.
Based on the first 3 games this season, and particularly last night, there should be no future contract discussions with Pendlebury.

?? Pendlebury was one of our better players last night. Probably our best midfielder which isn't hard given we hardly had any good players last night. He's the least of our problems in the 30+ year old range

Sidebottom needs to be transitioned out this year as he looks extremely slow and not covering the ground anymore. Put Lipinski on the wing and give Macrae a permanent midfield spot for the rest of the year.

Should probably also be Howe's last year but we have a depth issue in his position when who knows what's happening with Murphy at the moment.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

?? Pendlebury was one of our better players last night. Probably our best midfielder which isn't hard given we hardly had any good players last night. He's the least of our problems in the 30+ year old range

Sidebottom needs to be transitioned out this year as he looks extremely slow and not covering the ground anymore. Put Lipinski on the wing and give Macrae a permanent midfield spot for the rest of the year.

Should probably also be Howe's last year but we have a depth issue in his position when who knows what's happening with Murphy at the moment.

If Sidebottom looked slow,Pendlebury moved like treacle.

 

[barrackers]

?? Pendlebury was one of our better players last night. Probably our best midfielder which isn't hard given we hardly had any good players last night. He's the least of our problems in the 30+ year old range

Sidebottom needs to be transitioned out this year as he looks extremely slow and not covering the ground anymore. Put Lipinski on the wing and give Macrae a permanent midfield spot for the rest of the year.

Should probably also be Howe's last year but we have a depth issue in his position when who knows what's happening with Murphy at the moment.

If we’re to transition Sidebottom I’d prefer to see him trialled as a small forward.

 

[doofdoof]

If we’re to transition Sidebottom I’d prefer to see him trialled as a small forward.

We've got too many small forwards. Billy, Bobby, Beau, Shoota .....

 

[sideswipe]

Macrae, McInnes and Allan are enough for this year. You can't have too many inexperienced kids at once or your whole system falls apart and they don't get to develop in the right environment.

We forget that Nick Daicos is a young talent in his 3rd season. That's why I'm not worried about a rebuild as I think we can rebound quickly. Not having access to our top 5-10 pick this year sets us back a year but rebuilding sides can take 4-5 drafts at the bottom to find a player anywhere close to a Naicos to take them back up.

We already have him so just need to be smart with our first round picks for the next two years and really target FA for the next big star (ideally KPP) with the abundance of salary cap we'll have as our 30+ year olds retire.

5-10 pick? You have us finishing outside the 8? Take the $2.50 on offer.


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[whiskeytown]

Not too dissimilar to the hard calls we made circa 2009-2011.

At some stage through that period we started to phase out champion older guys such as Lockyer, Medhurst, O’Bree etc to the VFL as depth players.

The major issue is I don’t think we have that much quality young talent to replace them.

The only real guys I see are Macrae, McInnes, Allan and in the future De Mattia & TJ.

And definitely no key position talent.

Agree… the KPP stocks and Elliot will take longer to replace

But as I said last week… before the mid season bye I’d be giving more game time to Macrae, McInness, Harrison, Allan, Ryan, Dean, Sullivan

And look to blood TJ, Harry and Eyre etc later in the year

And keeping these kids in til their form waivers

In conjunction with our crop of established under 28 year old players in… Moore, Maynard, De Goey, IQ, Hill, Mcstay, Schulz, Lipinski, Hill, Daicos x2, Cameron, Noble, McReery, Frampton

… there’s enough there and coming through

Minus a few kpp pieces and maybe a free agent mid…

there’s enough there to challenge again in the next couple of years

 

[Rankine2Rachele]

5-10 pick? You have us finishing outside the 8? Take the $2.50 on offer.


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I don't think they'll trouble the top 4 this year, but betting on us to miss the 8 entirely? I'm hesitant to call it lunacy, but I could change my tune if things don't pick up by soon after the bye.

 

[barrackers]

We've got too many small forwards. Billy, Bobby, Beau, Shoota .....

Elliott has played as a centre square mid previously and looked good, McCreery was trialed in the midfield over preseason with limited success and Hill looks to have the right traits. Not saying we should turn all 3 into mids or even one full time, just that there’s options to change the mix. Lipinski is spending a fair bit of time forward too.

We’re not exactly blessed with tall forwards either, which creates opportunities and a reliance on smaller types.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Agree… the KPP stocks and Elliot will take longer to replace

But as I said last week… before the mid season bye I’d be giving more game time to Macrae, McInness, Harrison, Allan, Ryan, Dean, Sullivan

And look to blood TJ, Harry and Eyre etc later in the year

And keeping these kids in til their form waivers

In conjunction with our crop of established under 28 year old players in… Moore, Maynard, De Goey, IQ, Hill, Mcstay, Schulz, Lipinski, Hill, Daicos x2, Cameron, Noble, McReery, Frampton

… there’s enough there and coming through

Minus a few kpp pieces and maybe a free agent mid…

there’s enough there to challenge again in the next couple of years

KPF’s are the main issue as per usual.

In my honest opinion Mihochek is just spluttering along and in an ideal world would be finishing up this year (if we had young talent coming through to blood). Given he is contracted for next year (2025) thats unlikely anyway.

But we literally have no AFL quality key forward talls coming through. Let alone anyone who projects in the upper echelon of the comp (Top 10).

If we draft one, which will be hard this year given the lack of quality kpf talls and our picks, it’s going to take 3-5 years for them to be AFL ready.

Trading and Free Agency also doesn’t look a realistic option in the short to medium term given our picks and that most decent targets have signed back up.

It’s a pretty dire predicament.

 

[whiskeytown]

KPF’s are the main issue as per usual.

In my honest opinion Mihochek is just spluttering along and in an ideal world would be finishing up this year (if we had young talent coming through to blood). Given he is contracted for next year (2025) thats unlikely anyway.

But we literally have no AFL quality key forward talls coming through. Let alone anyone who projects in the upper echelon of the comp (Top 10).

If we draft one, which will be hard this year given the lack of quality kpf talls and our picks, it’s going to take 3-5 years for them to be AFL ready.

Trading and Free Agency also doesn’t look a realistic option in the short to medium term given our picks and that most decent targets have signed back up.

It’s a pretty dire predicament.

I think that KPDs and rucks can be adequately found

Frampton, Dean, Eyre… we probably have enough KPDs now

Steene and 4 plus more years of Cameron means we probably have the ruck dept covered

KPF’s are harder but hopefully mcstay can provide 3 years of injury free, 40 goal a year service… combine that with reef, Schulz, hill… and Darcy Cameron resting forward…

It’s not great… but I don’t find it dire in the short to mid term

Just need another KPF and another sized forward to eventually replace Elliot

 

[rand corp]

Purely based on our last 3 games you would have to say Mitchell, Sidey are on shaky ground. Howe is also far from his best, and WHE played reasonably well, but hasn't come up and is always susceptible. Jamie not at his best but we still need him, as our forward line looks bereft of goalkickers. Mihocek hasn't got going at all this year. Pendles is the icon, the legend, going to be hard to make that call but it's coming soon. Cox probably plays out the season as Begg, Steene still some way off it.

 

[HFF]

Whilst he isn’t a kid per se but Sullivan should be in the team for mine.
His pre season was exceptional and he is at the perfect age of 26 to be hitting his physical peak.

Macrae and Sullivan should be playing to help start to add more layers to our mids and get some different looks.

 

[whiskeytown]

Whilst he isn’t a kid per se but Sullivan should be in the team for mine.
His pre season was exceptional and he is at the perfect age of 26 to be hitting his physical peak.

Macrae and Sullivan should be playing to help start to add more layers to our mids and get some different looks.

And as we saw with Frampton and Reef last night… Macrae and Sullivan will be hungry

The veterans are clearly some of % off in that department

 

[Rusty Beam]

It’s not great… but I don’t find it dire in the short to mid term

That’s the issue for me. I want great.

I really miss having a legitimate contested marking beast kicking goals or offering a ball out option down the line.

It makes me reminisce about Cloke and realise how harsh we all were. Particularly at the end.