Coach Grumpy

[Adelaide Hawk]

Sigh.

Maybe Cummins was offering an honest opinion?

 

[anchor man]

CA were to weak a body to make a decision, so Justin Langer took the decision out of their hands.
For sale, one used knife, slightly soiled, but still usable. Owner can pick up if he wants. I am waiting .JL.

 

[largebus]

Maybe Cummins was offering an honest opinion?

The journos kept asking him a loaded question to which he couldn't give anything but a non-committal answer. He'd be in deep trouble with CA for compromising negotiations if he said "I hope he gets an extension" or "Get him out".

 

[Manbearpig77]

This whole post seems to be ignoring that.....Langer choose not to do this.

There was no logical process that could see Langer get extended, and it was plain for all to see, if they wanted to see it. It's beyond clear that he was pushed to the sidelines in the off-season due to his performance, leading to the introduction of two assistant coaches joining McDonald and the creation of a coaching panel that clearly was not sustainable in the long run. When it came to actually offering Langer a contract, how on earth would that work. You'd likely need to offer him the contract with reduced pay, to reflect that he had been told to do less due to poor performance, right? And you'd need to limit it to a shorter contract too, to reflect that you all but sacked him a year ago, so it wouldn't be wise to offer more than 2 years. And then how much do you pay the assistant coaches that have been deemed to be so important.

Langer choose to pursue a contract extension that he plainly couldn't get unless he was willingly to likely take less money and less contract length.

Whilst I think and stated that Langer isn't entirely blameless for his own ignominious departure, I think it's clear as day that this has been handled extremely poorly.

Ever since our loss to India too much has been allowed to play out in the media, and this has been no exception. CA needed to have open and clear communication with Langer privately. They needed to gain control of the narrative rather than let it play out via 'anonymous sources' and speculation in the media.

It's just bad business and that's CA's fault.

Is Langer an intense guy who perhaps refused to read the writing on the wall? Sure. But they allowed it to get to the point where he wasn't sure what was going on, on Friday, leading to this rather embarrassing shit show.

 

[Phone]

As it turns out Langer was offered a contract, wasn't happy with it and has resigned. Which is fine. But that's the whole thing here: it's nearly impossible to think of a contract that CA could responsibly offer Langer that Langer would also accept, which was an obvious problem once Langer got moved to the side in the last off-season

 

[melanChronic]

Although it's been handled terribly by CA (surprise surprise) I don't think Langer is particularly hard done by. Under this watch we lost at home to India (twice!), pissed an Ashes series win up the wall in 2019 and botched a golden path into the WTC final.

A lot of the problems I thought lay with Paine and his dumb campaigner captaincy, but it was evident throughout that the team lacked the killer instinct and match awareness to ram home an advantageous position. There was a lack of cohesion and direction in those moments. That's on the coaching staff and Langer primarily as head coach.

Langer's tenure was also unusual as there was a real lack of overseas touring during the last few years. The few times he was watching over a touring group, things tended to unravel. The Test documentary showed that Langer was a nightmare to work with in England in 2019, and similar stories came out of the Bangladesh tour last year.

With three huge subcontinent trips coming up it would've been a disaster to send Langer over as coach given his track record on tours.
The wheels can come off quickly if you're losing matches in a foreign place and underlying tensions are bound to resurface. The last thing CA need is another Micky Arthur homeworkgate scenario.

 

[Kappa]

One of the more insane decisions in recent times. How quickly people forget Australia's darkest hour in Capetown just 4 short years ago?

Australia’s darkest hour. Jesus you read too much heraldsun.

 

[Cleavy]

As it turns out Langer was offered a contract, wasn't happy with it and has resigned. Which is fine. But that's the whole thing here: it's nearly impossible to think of a contract that CA could responsibly offer Langer that Langer would also accept, which was an obvious problem once Langer got moved to the side in the last off-season

well Langer must have made some sort of contract demand, where obviously the 2 parties were worlds apart

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Langer was appointed on the back of white ball success as coach of WA. His red ball coaching record there was patchy. He had the advantage of an orchestrated media campaign.

The question on him was his tactical acumen. That question remains. Over his tenure we did not win a Test series overseas. Our great record of having never lost a home series to India was blown up. The second series loss to India last summer was more than enough for me.

It is all very well being the Rah Rah guy who waves the flag and rattles on about the spirit of the baggy green but there must be more. Poor staff management can be added to the list.

I think it is a painful but excellent day for cricket.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think people are rewriting history a bit with this bloke. Again seems like a case of setting the bar low because of what came previously like with Paine’s captaincy.

Didn’t seem like a terrible coach. But I thought him and Paine were fairly poor in that series in England. Smith’s brilliance saved the team. They got rolled at home by India by an Indian side down several players.

People are talking him up for the T20 win and the recent Ashes series. Is that really that impressive? Probably the worst English side to hit our shores. The T20 win was good sure but we all know that’s not what coaches are there for.

He probably would have done enough o stick around if he wasn’t so hard for the players to get on.

Sure people can use the standard generation soft sort of cliches. But judging off what has been said about Langer he is tiring to be around. This old school idea that you can only be a good coach if everyone is fearful of you and constantly expecting to be screamed at is nonsense.

A lot of great coaches in all kinds of sports create great relationships with their players.

Regardless yet another pathetic handling of a situation by Cricket Australia. Absolutely laughable organisation.

Agree with all that but equally the idea that players should pick and choose who and when their coach is is as nonsense as the polar opposite (screaming all the time). The reality is CAs job is to choose the coach that is needed not necessarily the one the players want (sometimes both things can co exist but its about following the right process) and if they havent got the leadership ability to do that then why are they even running CA at all? They might as well go home and do nothing for all the power they have ceded to the players. I personally think langer is overrated in some circles but CA are utterly spineless and on this ocassion cummins has proved himself to be a weak politician and not a leader..my opinion of him has dropped markedly after this episode and frankly id send him packing as captain if we had any real viable captaincy alternatives (which we dont so he will stay).

 

[Phone]

well Langer must have made some sort of contract demand, where obviously the 2 parties were worlds apart

I imagine 3 or 4 years vs 1 or 2 years. CA couldn't reasonably offer a 3 year deal given what went on in the off-season imo.

 

[Cleavy]

I imagine 3 or 4 years vs 1 or 2 years. CA couldn't reasonably offer a 3 year deal given what went on in the off-season imo.

apparently CA offered 1 year.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Maybe Cummins was offering an honest opinion?

Nah not a chance. He was being a politician. Weak. Honest would have been saying he wanted a change and i would have respected him for that.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

apparently CA offered 1 year.

To be fair langer will likely get offered more money and years coaching elsewhere so that plus how upset he would have been with the process i can understand why he rejected it.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I imagine 3 or 4 years vs 1 or 2 years. CA couldn't reasonably offer a 3 year deal given what went on in the off-season imo.

May have involved splitting red and white ball duties.

He may be better suited to coaching T20. That was his schtick in WA.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

So he lost the players basically, seems as simple as that. Langer might have been a great coach in the 80s and 90s but for today’s standards I’d reckon maybe not. Anyway I think he did a great job through that period and hope he gets another decent role.

Who’s favoured to take over, I’m assuming Andrew McDonald?

I think mcdonald doesnt want it long term because of his family situation unless covid bubbles go.

I think we all know its going to be Bayliss which would be rightfully disappointing.

 

[Borisdog]

The journos kept asking him a loaded question to which he couldn't give anything but a non-committal answer. He'd be in deep trouble with CA for compromising negotiations if he said "I hope he gets an extension" or "Get him out".

Maybe.

What are CA going to do if he gives an honest opinion?

Sack the current Ashes winning Captain and the sides' best bowler?

Integrity is a quality to be valued. It sends a VERY big message to your subordinates.

I don't reckon Pat showed any there, and I think in time he might've played that differently.

 

[Phone]

apparently CA offered 1 year.

Even if they upped it to 2, I doubt Langer - or many coaches - take it away.

 

[Westend]

Langer was appointed on the back of white ball success as coach of WA. His red ball coaching record there was patchy. He had the advantage of an orchestrated media campaign.

The question on him was his tactical acumen. That question remains. Over his tenure we did not win a Test series overseas. Our great record of having never lost a home series to India was blown up. The second series loss to India last summer was more than enough for me.

It is all very well being the Rah Rah guy who waves the flag and rattles on about the spirit of the baggy green but there must be more. Poor staff management can be added to the list.

I think it is a painful but excellent day for cricket.

No its not an excellent day for cricket

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Although it's been handled terribly by CA (surprise surprise) I don't think Langer is particularly hard done by. Under this watch we lost at home to India (twice!), pissed an Ashes series win up the wall in 2019 and botched a golden path into the WTC final.

Bizarre take that Langer is in any way to blame for drawing that series. The players shat the bed/lost the game at Headingly and Langer was surprised by Paine's decision to bowl first in the final Test...

"The decision certainly took coach Justin Langer by surprise, but Langer told ABC Grandstand after play that he had to be prepared to back the captain's decisions on the field, including at the toss."

 

[Westend]

Langer's tenure ending is no great surprise. This is remisceent of Bob Simpson's tenure ending when a newish captain felt the team needed a different coach.

I'm not impressed at the way this has been handled. It's been a mess

The public may want Ricky Ponting but there's no way he'll take over. He has an IPL gig and he's the face of channel 7 cricket.

His remuneration for his 7-8 week long IPL gig trumps what CA could offer him. You could probably say the same for his channel 7 gig too.

Ponting probably also feels his good mate has been thrown under a double decker bus by the same people any new coach will work with.

I can see Trevor Bayliss, somebody prepared to be in the background and not front and centre, to be Langer's successor.

No bayliss shouldnt be picked will just justify the conspiracy to get rid of langer......and will be a stain on the career of cummins if not already

clear the air and go for Gillispie instead or Punter

 

[deanc]

CA were to weak a body to make a decision, so Justin Langer took the decision out of their hands.
For sale, one used knife, slightly soiled, but still usable. Owner can pick up if he wants. I am waiting .JL.

What an absurd and appalling outcome..! What on earth is going on at Cricket Australia..?

I find it hard believe any of the players would be happy about this and the media grubs attempting to frame Cummins, simply because he refused to give them a headline - FFS, the bloke has been skipper for 5 minutes..!

 

[nurries]

Langer was appointed on the back of white ball success as coach of WA. His red ball coaching record there was patchy. He had the advantage of an orchestrated media campaign.

The question on him was his tactical acumen. That question remains. Over his tenure we did not win a Test series overseas. Our great record of having never lost a home series to India was blown up. The second series loss to India last summer was more than enough for me.

It is all very well being the Rah Rah guy who waves the flag and rattles on about the spirit of the baggy green but there must be more. Poor staff management can be added to the list.

I think it is a painful but excellent day for cricket.

Had an awesome team when he took over too

 

[FreoRicci]

Funny how Cricket Australia wanted and needed a culture change after sandpapergate. Langer comes in and does so. Yet players are babies and dislike it. Now CA reverts back to the same toxic culture it began with. The original duo in Warner and Smith comes back. No surprise

 

[melanChronic]

Bizarre take. The players shat the bed/lost the game at Headingly and Langer was surprised by Paine's decision to bowl first in the final Test...

"The decision certainly took coach Justin Langer by surprise, but Langer told ABC Grandstand after play that he had to be prepared to back the captain's decisions on the field, including at the toss."

I didn't say he was responsible for 2-2 in 2019. I said it happened during his tenure.

I also spelt out that a lot of the poor results were due to Paine, but also that the pattern of shitting the bed that emerged over 2019-2021 was down to a lack of ability to execute under pressure and having no plan to wrestle back momentum. The coach is certainly responsible for that.