Collingwood List Management Thread

[Knightmare]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Right now I am favouring:



SNR: Rounds, Stubbs, Dick (if he finishes the season off strong, then obviously retain! but on current form in danger now that Buckley + McCarthy are performing- club might trade for a 2nd or 3rd round pick)

Rookie: Reed, McNamara, Perham, Hunter, Reilly


Add:
SNR: Jackson Starcevich (F/S - possible), *add 2 more
Rookie: Jarrod Witts (intend to rookie + hope doesn't want senior position), Michael Hartley (read Witts), Trent Stubbs (re-draft as rookie), Caolan Mooney (Irish addition) *add 1 more.

*Doesn't give Derek Hine many picks to work his magic with..


Sinclair is rated highly internally. Deserves a 3rd season.
I'd like to see Wood get delisted to make just one more spot available in the national draft, but club frustratingly rate him.

Trade table:
Tyson Goldsack (Would make any other best 22 around the league. Can see him becoming an AA player for a club but in our backline which is our strongest area on the field it is really unfortunate that he can't consistantly get a regular game. Only trade possible because it would give him more opportunity, but absolutely want to retain and would cost allot)

Brent Macaffer (Really important player. Along with Goldsack has currency and is also not quite guaranteed that game every week. Limited preseason is the reason he isn't there. A club might be able to entice him with a spot in their best 22 because like Goldsack he would be in there for any other team. Again want to retain and would cost allot for a club to get him)

Lachlan Keeffe (204cm KPD. With Reid, N.Brown, Tarrant and Hartley to come it looks unrealistic for him to make the best 22. Has improved beyond imagination due to quick learning. Would be a great pickup for a club in need of a ready to play CHB who could hold down the post for the next 10 years. If we think we can make him into a ruckman, then don't trade. Would take allot to get him because he is quality)

Brad Dick (Possible delist right now. I can see WCE interested and that might be a great opportunity for him to get regular games. Whether he is on the trade table at the seasons end will come down to whether he gains confidence in his shoulder by seasons end. Doesn't have the currency of the above 3 and would get a 2nd round pick at best)

John McCarthy (Has shown some incredible VFL form and has forced his way into the AFL side. For an Essendon or similar club could be a really great trade target if after a no.2/3 option inside mid. Affordable trade target)

Simon Buckley (Like McCarthy has surprised and has really progressed well this year. Like McCarthy at the stage where he will most likely be retained which is a credit to him. Has a weapon of a kick and is probably an affordable trade target for some clubs)

Cameron Wood! (Club rate him. I don't. Backup ruckman at best who is only good for being a backup until Ceglar/Witts develop. Wouldn't take allot to get, though club might ask a little more)

1st round pick (if appropriate deal - eg if we go after one of the GWS 4x17 y/o kids this pick will likely have to go in addition to one of the above players)

*I'd have so many players on the trade table because with so few delisting options, if we can package up a couple of players for a meaningful upgrades or perhaps even one of the 4x 17 year old GWS kids (who I think we are unlikely to get) but it could mean that we make room for maybe 5 new draftees instead of just 3 giving us some more flexibility because we already have so many players we want to add in: Witts, Hartley, C.Mooney (Irish), maybe Jackson Starcevich (F/S), maybe Brett Eddy (with possibly a rookie or late pick), maybe it allows Jye Bolton to be upgraded if we choose to (which otherwise he definitely couldn't with only 3 list changes). Potentially gives us options.



Worth considering anyway.

 

[Bay Pie]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

I'd like to see Wood get delisted to make just one more spot available in the national draft, but club frustratingly rate him.

Cameron Wood! (Club rate him. I don't. Backup ruckman at best who is only good for being a backup until Ceglar/Witts develop. Wouldn't take allot to get, though club might ask a little more)

Massive risk to do this. I understand you sentiment but if we delisted Woody and then Jolly, who'll be 31 late next year, happened to get injured, we turn to 2 skinny bodied rucks in Witts & Ceglar. You just don't take that risk when you are smack bang in the middle of a premiership window.

 

[Knightmare]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Massive risk to do this. I understand you sentiment but if we delisted Woody and then Jolly, who'll be 31 late next year, happened to get injured, we turn to 2 skinny bodied rucks in Witts & Ceglar. You just don't take that risk when you are smack bang in the middle of a premiership window.

I only make these comments because Wood is the only list clogger with potential no greater than depth on the senior list with Rounds the possible other.

The likely reality is we retain Wood for the extra year because we do need someone who can step in for 3-4 weeks if Jolly is to miss games. So we will have to wait till one of Witts + Ceglar look minimum as good as Wood.

Ceglar is too underdeveloped and I wouldn't look for him to play in the 1s even as a backup for another 2 seasons. Physically not close even if he did for a couple of rounds show potential, though that was more as a forward than ruckman.

Witts on the other hand I'm keen to see more of and if he finishes the season off strong and looks dominant enough, he might be the surprise option as a backup if Jolly is to miss. He isn't skinny at all standing at 208cm and 108kg. Is a year older than this years draft class, was draft eligable last year. Same weight as Wood already with a couple more cm. Should by the start of next season put on another couple and be 110kg+. Wood's future might come down to how we evaluate Witts. Over the coming weeks of the u18 champs I think more will be revealed as to exactly where Witts is at when he plays against some better opposition.

It's more a wait and see thing.


If Wood did get delisted, would probably have to rookie a Brad Moran or similar who gets delisted or looks ok at state league level and have them as a standby anyway.

At this early stage it's just about looking at all possibilities and seeing if there are any alternative ways to do things to make our list better.

 

[Reykjavik]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Think you're a bit out there with some of your suggestions but I guess a lot is possible. I think also last season taught us nothing if not that we can get more retirements or loss to trade/uncontracted than we expect.

1) First, I think we will have some retirements. If I had to guess now, I'd say Leroy and JB will retire at the end of this season. That would be 2 SNR list spots. Not so sure on Leon, he seems to have a new lease on life this season.

2) Between GWS or other teams, I'd say we will lose one more to trade/uncontracted signing. Maybe one of Macaffer, Dick, JMac Goldsack, Wood will be lured or traded. Thats number 3.

3) Depending on above, may not need any delistings. Agree then the likes of Rounds would be needing to finish strongly, so while the likes of Buckley, Rounds, J Mac, Dick could be possible doubt we would lose more than one of those. I doubt we will delist/rerookie Stubbs or Farmer unless we have no alternative. Doubt we would delist Wood for the reasons above - Ceglar just not ready. And I think also we rate Sinclair and Thomas so unless their bodies are stuffed think they will be ok. SO maybe 4 total SNR spots vacant.

4) Rookies, well obviously hunter has retired, agree Shae is probably looking unlikley, doubt we will promote Reed although he has improved a lot, and Perham not so sure as a mature ager he has shown enough to persist. Reilly is ultra thin and looks as if he could be good with some more kilos, doubt he;; go, and while I dont think Gordon will make it I think the club rates him.

That means maybe 4 rookie vacancies.

We will pick up Mooney, so thats one, and I thought we had agreed to pre-select Carracher so you may be surprised we end up with 3 NSW rookies not 2. However, pretty sure at least 2 NSW rookies can be outside the rookie limit in their first year, so only one spot taken there. 2 still to go.

If we pick up Starcevich or Marty Clarke that would leave 2 SNR and 2 Rookie spots, pretty much ok for a weaker draft. Obviously we could delist/rookie senior guys, conversely we could put Witts or Hartley direct on SNR list, but I think it will end up somewhere around there unless we do a major trade deal to get a high pick or 17yr old from GWS (unlikely).

Thing is I would still be sorry to lose any of those becuase none of them is an out and out list clogger IMHO. Our list is so much better than even a few years ago.

 

[TradeDraft]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Ceglar is too underdeveloped and I wouldn't look for him to play in the 1s even as a backup for another 2 seasons. Physically not close even if he did for a couple of rounds show potential, though that was more as a forward than ruckman

Ceglar has show Potential but as you say needs to develop Physically 1st

Witts on the other hand I'm keen to see more of and if he finishes the season off strong and looks dominant enough, he might be the surprise option as a backup if Jolly is to miss. He isn't skinny at all standing at 208cm and 108kg. Is a year older than this years draft class, was draft eligable last year. Same weight as Wood already with a couple more cm. Should by the start of next season put on another couple and be 110kg+. Wood's future might come down to how we evaluate Witts. Over the coming weeks of the u18 champs I think more will be revealed as to exactly where Witts is at when he plays against some better opposition.

Witts is not the Skinny Ruckman we have been Drafting he has some Bulk Behind Him. He still could grow to around the 211cm mark yet



If Wood did get delisted, would probably have to rookie a Brad Moran or similar who gets delisted or looks ok at state league level and have them as a standby anyway.

At this early stage it's just about looking at all possibilities and seeing if there are any alternative ways to do things to make our list better.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Wood will NOT be delisted at the end of 2011 season. I hope he doesn't bother to read all posts about him. The coach & football department are the only people he shud listen/pay attention.

 

[Knightmare]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Think you're a bit out there with some of your suggestions but I guess a lot is possible. I think also last season taught us nothing if not that we can get more retirements or loss to trade/uncontracted than we expect.

1) First, I think we will have some retirements. If I had to guess now, I'd say Leroy and JB will retire at the end of this season. That would be 2 SNR list spots. Not so sure on Leon, he seems to have a new lease on life this season.

2) Between GWS or other teams, I'd say we will lose one more to trade/uncontracted signing. Maybe one of Macaffer, Dick, JMac Goldsack, Wood will be lured or traded. Thats number 3.

We will pick up Mooney, so thats one, and I thought we had agreed to pre-select Carracher so you may be surprised we end up with 3 NSW rookies not 2. However, pretty sure at least 2 NSW rookies can be outside the rookie limit in their first year, so only one spot taken there. 2 still to go.

If we pick up Starcevich or Marty Clarke that would leave 2 SNR and 2 Rookie spots, pretty much ok for a weaker draft. Obviously we could delist/rookie senior guys, conversely we could put Witts or Hartley direct on SNR list, but I think it will end up somewhere around there unless we do a major trade deal to get a high pick or 17yr old from GWS (unlikely).

Thing is I would still be sorry to lose any of those becuase none of them is an out and out list clogger IMHO. Our list is so much better than even a few years ago.

Carracher is another possible. Think he has been injured this year, so he might have to play another year of footy before we look at him, unless he comes back late season and impresses in which case he might be another possible.

Marty if he decides to come back would probably be a PSD pick.

Retirements makes things easier because there are so few options to delist with our whole list performing strongly (of those who have been around for more than 2 years). But right now until there is a clear sign that someone will retire we have to make the assumption that there may not be any retirements and have a plan for that situation.

GWS have a 2 year window and if they believe they can get Scott Pendlebury next year, they might not do their Collingwood signing this year. I would love for them to sign Cameron Wood. But reality suggests they will wait unless they lose hope on Pendlebury and instead elect to go for a Macaffer or Goldsack who would both be valueable signings. So we probably can't assume anyone will go this year, because like with retirements, it doesn't look like anything will happen at this stage.

So considering there are so few list cloggers, this is where the list situation is, which makes things incredibly difficult, like we have not experienced before because there are too few worth delistings which is a fortunate position to be in, but unfortunate for a couple of our senior listed players. Even more difficult is the fact that there are so many players we might want to sign: Witts, Hartley, Carracher, Mooney, Starcevich, Clarke, Eddy (Coll VFL). It's great having options, but if it turns out we decide we want more than just a couple of these. It means we need to turn over the list some more which brings us back to ideas such as package deals or going after a GWS possible with a pick + a player.

 

[mattys123]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Wood will NOT be delisted at the end of 2011 season. I hope he doesn't bother to read all posts about him. The coach & football department are the only people he shud listen/pay attention.

Yep, we would be stupid to delist Wood after all the time, expense (first round draft pick in trade) and effort we have put into him.

We could trade him if the right trade was available, but we can't just delist him at seasons end.

Maybe a beneficial trade for both teams and players (e.g. Maric or Seaby for Wood) could occur.

 

[Knightmare]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Wood will NOT be delisted at the end of 2011 season. I hope he doesn't bother to read all posts about him. The coach & football department are the only people he shud listen/pay attention.

Discussion is about who could be amongst the possible list changes. Ins and outs. And how many players we need to delist.

Chances are Wood will be retained for another 1-2 seasons since there are no other physically capable backup possibilities for Jolly. Yet.
But he does need to get better..

 

[gifted1]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Can we move the list management talk onto the lsit management thread, not the future magpies thread please mods

 

[TradeDraft]

Lachlan Keeffe (204cm KPD. With Reid, N.Brown, Tarrant and Hartley to come it looks unrealistic for him to make the best 22. Has improved beyond imagination due to quick learning. Would be a great pickup for a club in need of a ready to play CHB who could hold down the post for the next 10 years. If we think we can make him into a ruckman, then don't trade. Would take allot to get him because he is quality)

Would need a Super Trade for that to Happen as I still think Keeffe has Big Time Upside. Play on the Wing

1st round pick (if appropriate deal - eg if we go after one of the GWS 4x17 y/o kids this pick will likely have to go in addition to one of the above players)

I would think it would be for a Gun or one of These 17 Year Superstars because I would keep the 1st Rounder in or even upgrade it to get a Good Young Prospect

 

[Knightmare]

Would need a Super Trade for that to Happen as I still think Keeffe has Big Time Upside. Play on the Wing



I would think it would be for a Gun or one of These 17 Year Superstars because I would keep the 1st Rounder in or even upgrade it to get a Good Young Prospect

Keeffe if on another list would be good enough to make most sides. Still has so much improvement left in him. It's just a shame how wasted he has been this season. If we get involved in a trade for a GC boy he might be an option, not only because he is a QLDer, but also because he would be their immediate CHB. He is such an asset that you would never get the same value back. Hopefully he can become a ruckman. Shouldn't be traded yet because his value hasn't nearly arrived yet.

Clubs don't really know his game enough since he hasn't been playing senior games. But if Reid ever misses, would not miss a beat.

I'm increasingly opening my mind to one of these 4x 17 year olds because if we give up a player or two + our pick we get a future high quality player who comes onto the list a year later when we might be looking to make more list changes due to retirements and more players entering their 2nd + 3rd years. It really opens up our list and allows us to retain the likes of Dick, McCarthy, Buckley and all those others we would like to retain.
So Macaffer, Goldsack and our pick could do it and allows us to upgrade on talent since we will have few opportunities to have access to a young talent like this otherwise.
The downside is obviously that it hurts our depth. But I'm in consideration mode and if we think we have find the right talent, then maybe.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

Wood will NOT be delisted at the end of 2011 season.

This. Anyone who suggests otherwise has NFI.

 

[soreplums]

Re: Future Magpies Watch '11

This. Anyone who suggests otherwise has NFI.

correct. He'll stay a Pie unless he decides to walk

 

[bballscout]

Beams/Keefe for Fraser?

 

[Scodog10]

Beams/Keefe for Fraser?

How's about we make it Keefe for Hayden Jolly or Tom Lynch?

Seriously though with Dick going down with what could be a career threatening injury there's a chance we'll be on the lookout for another forward crumber at the end of the year.

So I just want to put the name of a guy already in the system out there in Lewis Broome. He's currently on the rookie list at West Coast but has kicked 30+ goals in the WAFL already this season for Claremont. The kid is like grease lightning and just has a knack for finding the goals, the only query on him is that he is probably no bigger than Ugle. He's well worth an enquiry at the very least IMO.

 

[look at him goooo!]

I'd hate for us to delist Rounds at the end of the year. He just seems like a classy player. Last year he was great on a half-forward flank for the VFL team and was named an emergency for 11? games last year. Was about to make his debut before he got injured at training a couple days beforehand if I remember correctly. This year he's playing a completely different role, and he's been doing really well in the past 5 or so weeks (admittedly only watched 3 games in that time, but the reports from the other games were positive). The club are just giving him a rounded education, soon he'll be more than adept at playing all over the ground, which will be an asset once he forces his way into the senior team. Also important to take into consideration he was drafted as a bottom aged player. I see him making it.

As for list changes, I see one of johnson or L.brown retiring at the end of the year, although I wouldn't be against them going around again. Dick and stubbs/farmer delisted, with the possibility of putting stubbs/farmer on the rookie list. I also think its likely we will lose 1 or 2 players to other clubs.

 

[Knightmare]

Seriously though with Dick going down with what could be a career threatening injury there's a chance we'll be on the lookout for another forward crumber at the end of the year.

So I just want to put the name of a guy already in the system out there in Lewis Broome. He's currently on the rookie list at West Coast but has kicked 30+ goals in the WAFL already this season for Claremont. The kid is like grease lightning and just has a knack for finding the goals, the only query on him is that he is probably no bigger than Ugle. He's well worth an enquiry at the very least IMO.

I think you are right on Dick. Just watching the game now on recording. Doesn't look good at all! Dick would have to be nearly certain now if that puts him out for the year. Just doesn't look like we can accommodate him anymore which is really unfortunate.

A club like WCE could do worse than trade a junk pick they don't need to use for him, and add him to their list with the hope that he can get healthy. Can't expect any level of currency for him now after that injury I wouldn't think.

Personally I'm not super worried about adding a replacement. With the likes of Fasolo and others who can rotate through the forwardline and with Ugle who is developing as a forward, I think we will be fine.

If I replaced Dick I'd go after Ahmed Saad (Northern Bullants). Best non AFL forward. But GWS likely will add him.
Another possible forward would be Devon Smith who is a little forward, but ripped it up V Northern Territory today. Could be a late enough selection due to height.

But again. Don't feel at this stage anyway that it should be amongst our priorities.

I'd hate for us to delist Rounds at the end of the year. He just seems like a classy player. Last year he was great on a half-forward flank for the VFL team and was named an emergency for 11? games last year. Was about to make his debut before he got injured at training a couple days beforehand if I remember correctly. This year he's playing a completely different role, and he's been doing really well in the past 5 or so weeks (admittedly only watched 3 games in that time, but the reports from the other games were positive). The club are just giving him a rounded education, soon he'll be more than adept at playing all over the ground, which will be an asset once he forces his way into the senior team. Also important to take into consideration he was drafted as a bottom aged player. I see him making it.

Dick and stubbs/farmer delisted, with the possibility of putting stubbs/farmer on the rookie list. I also think its likely we will lose 1 or 2 players to other clubs.

Farmer has looked good over the last 3 weeks. No chance I would have him amongst the delistings. Has really shown some very good improvement and is a fantastic talent. Stubbs I'd look to rookie though since he was a late pick and hasn't played yet.
Dick looks likely if injury puts him out for the rest of the year.

Rounds is a likely delisting. Had some good weeks. Other poor weeks. Was solid before injury today and from reports also had a good game last week. If he finishes the season strong maybe he is retained. But most likely delisted I would have thought at this stage.
Could if delisted still work his way up from a VFL side and make another team though because he does have some pace and still has improvement in him. Just with our list in the position it is in, it is hard to retain everyone and right now I'd have him as being amongst those who make way. As we all know though things can change very quickly.

 

[TradeDraft]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s-play-next-year/story-e6frf9jf-1226073722957

This Article they have Players that could be Traded at Seasons end and the player I liked was Cale Morton

Cale Morton (Melbourne): Much depends on the next three months, but Morton may be keen to look elsewhere if he ends up back in the VFL. Too good for there. Offers will come for him, no doubt.

I really like what I see he is a Good Size and Uses the Ball well

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s-play-next-year/story-e6frf9jf-1226073722957

 

[Scodog10]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s-play-next-year/story-e6frf9jf-1226073722957

This Article they have Players that could be Traded at Seasons end and the player I liked was Cale Morton



I really like what I see he is a Good Size and Uses the Ball well

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s-play-next-year/story-e6frf9jf-1226073722957

Talent wise he'd certainly be one worth looking at and would probably make a good replacement for Johnson. However I'll be brutally honest here he's just waaaaaaaay too soft for mine, he seriously makes Didak look like Leigh Matthews.

If we were to try and poach a similar type to Morton I'd look at Howard from the Bulldogs. He was also a former first round selection and has only played a few games so far. His main advantage is that he has a Suckling type left foot boot on him which could be a real weapon for us in the midfield or coming off HB.

 

[Knightmare]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s-play-next-year/story-e6frf9jf-1226073722957

This Article they have Players that could be Traded at Seasons end and the player I liked was Cale Morton



I really like what I see he is a Good Size and Uses the Ball well

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s-play-next-year/story-e6frf9jf-1226073722957

He is a name I have heard all year is available. Early draft pick, only a couple of years on an AFL list. So naturally people will be wondering what is up with that.

But there is a good reason he is available and why he isn't an automatic selection every week in the Melbourne senior side.

One interesting observation about the Morton family. All exceptional talents. Mitch, Cale and even Jarryd. But none of them have the application to be able to consistantly help their respective teams win and I don't think any of the brothers will ever get it.

While I was keen on Mitch a year ago because of talent, and Cale is equally talented, it has become increasingly clear to me that none of the Morton's are worthwhile investments.


If any Melbourne player should be talked about Sam Blease would be a great pickup for a club if he became available. Has a similar attacking game to North Melbourne's Kieran Harper.
Jordan McKenzie is also amongst the better Melbourne players who could be available. Defensive midfield type. Tackles, wins the hard ball.

But I don't think we really need to trade for any of these fringe types. Just for clubs in need of those types, they should look at these instead of the higher profile Morton's.

Next weekend I should get the chance to get around to updating this thread with updated player ratings + reviews, thoughts on some potential draftees. And will include some trade options we can look at from oppo clubs.

One player I have kept a close eye on all year is Tom Hawkins.
If/ when L.Brown retires I would consider Hawkins as a replacement if he became available. Has this season suffered from a lack of confidence and hasn't been able to take the marks he would like to or would usually take. Also probably hasn't got to as many contests as you'd like him to, so he needs to increase his workrate some. But in that limited role playing type role between ruck and forward I think Hawkins is a good option because it doesn't require a star and he does have that big body, can crash packs and gives Dawes + Cloke another big marking option up forward to take pressure off them which seems to help their combined production because it means they get double teamed less. So more than anything it would be a situational trade.

 

[look at him goooo!]

Hawkins coming to collingwood would be a horrible move. You need someone mobile playing the second ruckman role like Brown, Ryder, Vardy, Kruezer (I believe carlton will use him as the 2nd ruck/forward, mainly due to his mobility and the non-existant versatility of warnock), Roughead, Clark. Hawkins problem is while he is around the same height or shorter than the above mentioned, he is one of the most immobile and slowest players going around. I still think keeffe will take over leigh browns role. With brown and reid holding down the key posts for the next 8 years, while keeffe would be amazing backup, he'd be way to valuable to waste in the VFL in the meantime. While he looks at home as a defender, due to n.brown and reid, he'll take up that second ruckman, while chipping in up forward and back (I think next year, when we have all of taz,n.brown and reid fit, the club will give him some experience in the forward line in the VFL to help his development)

 

[gifted1]

cant see dick being delisted, unless he chooses to retire due to injury. Theres 40 odd spaces enough to carry the odd bloke with proven talent, hell we're carrying sinclair and thomas who are un proven.
very difficult to find delisting candidates, someone with a little bit of currency may get traded out, even a player like beams for one of these 17 year old kids.
some delistings then possible re-rookie candidates are guys like thomas, sinclair, stubbs.
can only see rounds being delisted if he goes backwards from here, dont think it'll happen, looks to be finding his feet after his shoulder surgery.

 

[Aliago]

If we were to look for a small forward, could do worse than look in our own backyard than Brett Eddy, although Saad and Brock O'Brien would be better options. As for delistings, I would love to keep Rounds, but we have to get rid of 3, and I will give him the rest of the year, but at this current moment if I had a gun to my head, it would be Rounds first.

 

[Number 10]

If we were to look for a small forward, could do worse than look in our own backyard than Brett Eddy, although Saad and Brock O'Brien would be better options. As for delistings, I would love to keep Rounds, but we have to get rid of 3, and I will give him the rest of the year, but at this current moment if I had a gun to my head, it would be Rounds first.

Eddy is 190 + cm , defniately not a small forward