List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016

[swoop42]

Wasn't the AFL at one stage talking about having some form of safeguard in place for a side who trades a future first round pick only to then suck major anus the following year and finish in the bottom few?

 

[magpies53]

I know it won't happen. Our club wouldn't have what it takes to make a statement like that even IF it was for the better of us.

But if we had a forum where we only talk about what will happen, or what has happened, it wouldn't be very interesting now would it?

Cloke is the one that needs to be traded straight swap him for patton

 

[Ketchup]

Cloke is the one that needs to be traded straight swap him for patton

Cloke currently isn't worth a third rounder. This is the problem with out supporter group, we over rate our players to the extreme, GWS will laugh at that offer, especially considering other clubs would offer first round picks for patton.

On the flip side, I'd put out a scenario that's plausible and could potentially get a deal done and benefit our club, and the responses basically question sanity.

 

[Apex36]

I know it won't happen. Our club wouldn't have what it takes to make a statement like that even IF it was for the better of us.

But if we had a forum where we only talk about what will happen, or what has happened, it wouldn't be very interesting now would it?

Harsh on the club there. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't in the scenario you've constructed.
You're asking them to give away a key forward who's not only a sentimental favorite in only his second year, but one whom many commentators are predicting to become one of the league's best players, for a forward who's had two ACL's and a speculative pick, albeit an early one.

It's a deal that could potentially go horribly wrong, and honestly I don't think the risk would outweigh the reward at this point.

 

[Ketchup]

Harsh on the club there. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't in the scenario you've constructed.
You're asking them to give away a key forward who's not only a sentimental favorite in only his second year, but one whom many commentators are predicting to become one of the league's best players, for a forward who's had two ACL's and a speculative pick, albeit an early one.

It's a deal that could potentially go horribly wrong, and honestly I don't think the risk would outweigh the reward at this point.

I applaud you for atleast coming up with some reasonable discussion as to why we wouldn't undertake this trade. And I completely understand, it would be a massive thing to do, would I do it? Probably not, would I think about it? Yeah.

Currently our side is sliding down the ladder, our plethora of first round picks everyone has spoken about for years has gone drastically wrong, Kennedy walked out, I'd bet on Broomhead walking out, Grundy has drastically stalled,Freeman has walked out, unfortunately scharenberg will most likely never reach his potential due to three serious injuries, De goey and Moore is a tick, but we got De goey by losing beams so it's hardly a gain, we had no first round pick last year and as it stands have none this year when we continue to get down the ladder. We need to get back into the first round. This trade would get us back in, as well as get the potential to have a cog to still build a forward line around.

It's not as far-fetched as it sounds.

 

[NT.Thunder]

I wish we had a mid season draft/trade period, even if it was limited to outside of AFL listed players.

Reckon we'd be having a good look around state leagues right now for a few defenders.

 

[Apex36]

I applaud you for atleast coming up with some reasonable discussion as to why we wouldn't undertake this trade. And I completely understand, it would be a massive thing to do, would I do it? Probably not, would I think about it? Yeah.

Currently our side is sliding down the ladder, our plethora of first round picks everyone has spoken about for years has gone drastically wrong, Kennedy walked out, I'd bet on Broomhead walking out, Grundy has drastically stalled,Freeman has walked out, unfortunately scharenberg will most likely never reach his potential due to three serious injuries, De goey and Moore is a tick, but we got De goey by losing beams so it's hardly a gain, we had no first round pick last year and as it stands have none this year when we continue to get down the ladder. We need to get back into the first round. This trade would get us back in, as well as get the potential to have a cog to still build a forward line around.

It's not as far-fetched as it sounds.

The problem is, at the end of the day, in your scenario we still have that cog in the forward line, but it's likely going to be a vastly inferior one, with Patton being an old school power forward rather than the tall athletic prototype that seems to be so hard to match up on which Darcy is/will be.

Seems to me that the club has two options at the moment in regards to our tall forward structure, and that's either do something drastic as you've proposed, or alternatively hope like hell that Cox continues his rapid improvement as a forward/ruck, and try and get some value for one of our current first rucks.

Thankfully, we're only at the start of the season, so we have time to see whether the Cox option will be viable by trade time. The other option of course would be to consider moving Cox on. He would likely have some value given his height/athleticism and rapid improvement over the past 12 months. Once again, it's something I'd be loathe to do though, as he is a much better list fit for us than Witts as a third forward/ruck, and is already a much better contested mark than either of our senior listed rucks.

 

[Scodog10]

Harsh on the club there. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't in the scenario you've constructed.
You're asking them to give away a key forward who's not only a sentimental favorite in only his second year, but one whom many commentators are predicting to become one of the league's best players, for a forward who's had two ACL's and a speculative pick, albeit an early one.

It's a deal that could potentially go horribly wrong, and honestly I don't think the risk would outweigh the reward at this point.

I'm with Ketchup and like the fact you've at least bought in to the discussion. Likewise I'm a no towards it, but I disagree that it is harsh on the club.

We are a club that is horrendously prone to overblowing the talent and production of our own then not realising opportunities when they arise.

The perfect example for me was Dale Thomas for the number 1 pick in the 2011 mini draft which was ultimately Jaeger O'Meara. Kevin Sheedy opened up about the pick being shopped around with that offer talked about from their end, but his comments were that we flatly refused it.

IMO, we probably made the right call given Daisy's status at the time as both a footballer and cult hero, but all offers should be welcomed and due diligence undertaken which it appeared was not the case in that particular instance. For example had we at least taken it to Daisy he might have said look I'm not going to get the best out of myself under Buckley so I'll leave it up to you.

Again no judgement from me in hindsight because it wasn't necessarily the wrong call, but by the same token I'm not convinced that Ketchup has been harsh toward the club.

 

[Apex36]

I'm with Ketchup and like the fact you've at least bought in to the discussion. Likewise I'm a no towards it, but I disagree that it is harsh on the club.

We are a club that is horrendously prone to overblowing the talent and production of our own then not realising opportunities when they arise.

The perfect example for me was Dale Thomas for the number 1 pick in the 2011 mini draft which was ultimately Jaeger O'Meara. Kevin Sheedy opened up about the pick being shopped around with that offer talked about from their end, but his comments were that we flatly refused it.

IMO, we probably made the right call given Daisy's status at the time as both a footballer and cult hero, but all offers should be welcomed and due diligence undertaken which it appeared was not the case in that particular instance. For example had we at least taken it to Daisy he might have said look I'm not going to get the best out of myself under Buckley so I'll leave it up to you.

Again no judgement from me in hindsight because it wasn't necessarily the wrong call, but by the same token I'm not convinced that Ketchup has been harsh toward the club.

I like that you brought up this example, because it highlights exactly what I was talking about when I said that a deal like this could end in disaster.

Imagine for instance, we had traded Thomas in 2011 for O'Meara. Given that he was close to, if not a top 5 player in the league at that point, it was an incredibly steep price to pay for a draftee.
Now in this scenario, there's every chance that Thomas would have never have buggered his ankle up to the extent he has (butterfly effect and all that) and still be an amazing player, and O'Meara still likely would have had knee problems given its been said he has degenerative issues.

If that had happened, how would we be responding as a supporter base right now? Let's face it, you and I and everyone else would be cursing the name O'Meara and lamenting the fact that GWS had well and truly fleeced us.

The only thing I ever got from Sheedy's comments on that scenario is that they never seriously wanted to trade O'Meara to us anyway, as Thomas at that point, was a completely ludicrous price to pay for a single draftee.

 

[mike123]

I'd argue given Thomas' status at the time we could have gotten more out of GWS and should have at least explored it.

 

[Scodog10]

I like that you brought up this example, because it highlights exactly what I was talking about when I said that a deal like this could end in disaster.

Imagine for instance, we had traded Thomas in 2011 for O'Meara. Given that he was close to, if not a top 5 player in the league at that point, it was an incredibly steep price to pay for a draftee.
Now in this scenario, there's every chance that Thomas would have never have buggered his ankle up to the extent he has (butterfly effect and all that) and still be an amazing player, and O'Meara still likely would have had knee problems given its been said he has degenerative issues.

If that had happened, how would we be responding as a supporter base right now? Let's face it, you and I and everyone else would be cursing the name O'Meara and lamenting the fact that GWS had well and truly fleeced us.

The only thing I ever got from Sheedy's comments on that scenario is that they never seriously wanted to trade O'Meara to us anyway, as Thomas at that point, was a completely ludicrous price to pay for a single draftee.

You have missed my point. Have a read of the article Sheedy penned in the Sun in late 2013. We gave no consideration to the deal which was the wrong move. Denying the move itself is fine, but not flat out refusing. Hence why Ketchup IMV was not harsh with his stance that's all.

FWIW I already feel that GWS well and truly fleeced us when we traded Shaw for Adams so I doubt my mindset would be any different. That's not denying Adams is quality, but trading Shaw for him was where we erred.

 

[TradeDraft]

Why are people so keen on Hurley, I know he's an obvious upgrade but our defenders in Brown, Reid, Frost and Keefe are solid enough.

A much more pressing need is wingers and half backs who can run and kick.

Our Defense has been Destroyed in the 1sr 3 Rounds.

Also Hurley is a good kick

 

[TradeDraft]

I wonder if we could trade Darcy Moore for patton and our first round pick back

That would simply be Idiotic. Patton has 2 ACL's and Moore is better.

Do that and I know the Club has lost the Plot

 

[TradeDraft]

Wasn't the AFL at one stage talking about having some form of safeguard in place for a side who trades a future first round pick only to then suck major anus the following year and finish in the bottom few?

Yes. They where talking about it but nothing Final came of it. IF we keep losing you bet Eddie will make a song and dance about it

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm with Ketchup and like the fact you've at least bought in to the discussion. Likewise I'm a no towards it, but I disagree that it is harsh on the club.

We are a club that is horrendously prone to overblowing the talent and production of our own then not realising opportunities when they arise.

The perfect example for me was Dale Thomas for the number 1 pick in the 2011 mini draft which was ultimately Jaeger O'Meara. Kevin Sheedy opened up about the pick being shopped around with that offer talked about from their end, but his comments were that we flatly refused it.

IMO, we probably made the right call given Daisy's status at the time as both a footballer and cult hero, but all offers should be welcomed and due diligence undertaken which it appeared was not the case in that particular instance. For example had we at least taken it to Daisy he might have said look I'm not going to get the best out of myself under Buckley so I'll leave it up to you.

Again no judgement from me in hindsight because it wasn't necessarily the wrong call, but by the same token I'm not convinced that Ketchup has been harsh toward the club.

Should we Trade Pendlebury as well then?

 

[Scodog10]

Should we Trade Pendlebury as well then?

For the right offer I'd consider it.

Let's say we bomb for the rest of 2016 and finish bottom 4 with no 1st round pick ahead of next year. GWS then come to us with McCarthy, Smith and two top 10 picks I'd at least consider it. Pendlebury is 29 in 2017 so times running out, he may want to cash in while he can and there's even a thread discussing his leadership on the go ATM.

Does that mean it's a yes IDK, but the discussion is about whether it's considered or not rather than what the right decision is.

 

[Apex36]

That would simply be Idiotic. Patton has 2 ACL's and Moore is better.

Do that and I know the Club has lost the Plot

Should we Trade Pendlebury as well then?

Calm your farm Dave. Of course Moore is worth more than Patton, hence why he said Patton and our first round pick back that we traded for Treloar. That's actually more than we paid for Treloar, and Moore is still very much a potential gun at the moment, rather than a bonafide star. It's not a trade that's particularly palatable to any of us, and highly unlikely to get done, but there's no harm in discussing these things.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Our Defense has been Destroyed in the 1sr 3 Rounds.

Also Hurley is a good kick

Our defence has been destroyed in the first three rounds because we turn the ball over when they're out of position. Better kicks don't turn the ball over which give the defenders a chance. If you give a decent forward the space that we've been giving them having the best defender in the comp isn't going to change anything. Hurley is a decent kick but his cost is huge. A player like Michael Hibberd would be much heaper and potentially improve our best 22 a lot more. It's just better value to spend our hard earned on positions that we truly are deficient in.

 

[TheWing121]

For the right offer I'd consider it.

Let's say we bomb for the rest of 2016 and finish bottom 4 with no 1st round pick ahead of next year. GWS then come to us with McCarthy, Smith and two top 10 picks I'd at least consider it. Pendlebury is 29 in 2017 so times running out, he may want to cash in while he can and there's even a thread discussing his leadership on the go ATM.

Does that mean it's a yes IDK, but the discussion is about whether it's considered or not rather than what the right decision is.

Interesting scenario, interested to hear your thoughts on Moore. Do you see him over his career being a marque top 3 forward in the competition (i.e. Reidwoldt, Franklin etc.) or good not great forward (Hawkins, Cloke) or something else?

If you think he is just going to be a good forward I understand your logic, but I don't see the logic if you think he will be a superstar of the competition for next 10 years

 

[THATSGOLD]

Should we Trade Pendlebury as well then?

For someone like Tom Boyd i would.

 

[Apex36]

For someone like Tom Boyd i would.

You've outdone yourself on that one.

 

[AmellyPies]

Yeah I know Moore is better than patton that's why I want our first rounder back. It's a gamble, if patton stays fit we get a forward to build a forward line around and we get back into the first round which could be as low as pick 5.

Not saying I'd do it. But it's not as crazy as it seems

Moore is going to be the number 1 KPF in the comp in coming years. What a stupid suggestion.

 

[gtrain23]

For someone like Tom Boyd i would.

Idiot

 

[TradeDraft]

Calm your farm Dave. Of course Moore is worth more than Patton, hence why he said Patton and our first round pick back that we traded for Treloar. That's actually more than we paid for Treloar, and Moore is still very much a potential gun at the moment, rather than a bonafide star. It's not a trade that's particularly palatable to any of us, and highly unlikely to get done, but there's no harm in discussing these things.

Well would we trust a Guy with 2 ACL's and we still be looking for a 2nd KPF to play alongside Patton

 

[TradeDraft]

Idiot

You just Figured that out