List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016

[Kappa]

700k for Witts..

Loopy Leppo's done it again

 

[IQ3]

Brisbane have offered Witts $700k deal. He's gone

So they'll give 700k to Witts but not 850k to Rockliff? Doubt it

 

[nahnah]

I haven't seen this rumour anywhere other than TD's post... TradeDraft whats your source?

 

[MagpieBat]

I haven't seen this rumour anywhere other than TD's post... TradeDraft whats your source?

He's copied it verbatim (literally, copied it) from another poster on Nick's, who reckons he got it from a coach at Gold Coast (he didn't specify whom).

This poster also reckons that Gold Coast "are also interested but believe Lions are coming for him with the big offer".

 

[MagpieBat]

if they rate him that highly pick 2 sounds fair

Pick 2 is untouchable...

 

[jjsmitty8]

Pick 2 is untouchable...

Picko Two-o going nowhere!

 

[IQ3]

TD is in fairyland

 

[Kappa]

Pick 2 is untouchable...

Leigh Matthews has just come out publicly stating pick 2 will be not be traded under any circumstance.

So who should we draft with our number 2 pick guys?

 

[MagpieBat]

Leigh Matthews has just come out publicly stating pick 2 will be not be traded under any circumstance.

So who should we draft with our number 2 pick guys?

Todd Marshall, because we need key forwards and because f-ck you, GWS...

 

[Chrispiesssss]

We"ll take pick 20.

Then swap 20 & 24 for 1697 points.
Then give up those 2 picks for Gws(our first round pick) pick 7 which is 1644 points.

Essentially, we get our first rounder back.

GWS get 53 points extra for their Academy players.

Lose witts & pick 24 for pick 7. Not bad overall.

 

[Scodog10]

That's the thing, it's not like it's a one off going for a mid in the top 10 instead of a KPF, it's basically happened four times in the past four years.
Ramsay (I know he's not a mid or top 10) over Stewart, Freeman (9) over McCarthy, De Goey (5) over Wright, then arguably Treloar (7 and ?) over Weideman (and ?).

It's hard to argue that we shouldn't have picked up at least one more KPF than we did while we had the currency. Now we essentially have Moore and that's it for the foreseeable future.

Definitely. When undertaking a remodelling of a list the way we did the best approach, IMO, is to work down in height so get your talls in, then your runners and lastly your crumbers. Theory is you work in reverse order so you stagger your list and have your mids and talls peaking at the same time. We did it in 10-11 with the tall portion of our list built 4-5 and 6-7 years earlier.

If we want to be hindsight heroes we got our rucks right, we got the tweeners right (Marsh, Langdon, Oxley and Scharanberg), we got the mids right (Treloar, JDG, Broomhead and Aish) and I'm confident the crumbers will be fixed this off-season when we bring Daicos in to compliment Varcoe.

There's obviously one key ingredient missing and outside Moore we haven't brought in a high level KP talent at either end in a decade (Reid and Brown previously). Substitute Kennedy for O'Brien or Freeman for McCarthy and our list is set, IMO. We can pull it back with clever trading and drafting (I'm almost certain the Reid's will be paired up in 2017), but we missed a trick there. Conversely you won't hear me potting the club for making 3 poor choices across 4 drafts (Maynard over Blakely hurts a bit as well) because overall the recruiting team has built a nice deep list which other areas of the football department have underperforming.

To pre-empt the comments I have no doubt the plan was to have Cloke firing on all cylinders, but that was always long odds given our history with guys over 30 on our list falling off the cliff and a lack of funding for the football department. Either way we've fallen down we just need to own the mistakes and make sure we do everything to fix it.

I believe we tried with Howe, but if we go one step further, get back into the draft and target Battle or trade for one of the players I mentioned earlier we'll be right.

 

[Scodog10]

What I'm saying is that we don't need more key position forwards. We have a genuine talent in Moore along with a host of other talls. What we do need is players who can hit targets under pressure, something Hawthorn have an abundance of. A forward line with Moore, Fasolo and Elliott will be more than adequate.

In fact I would go so far as to suggest that we have too many talls.

We certainly don't have too many talls especially guys with high end talent. Of our KPF's that weren't father son selections none were drafted before pick 60 of a draft. If we had 4 father son KPF's that would be fine. Fact is we don't.

If we did have too many that would be a tremendous positive anyway because it would give us plenty of trade currency. As it stands though Cloke is all we have in terms of currency and his isn't what it used to be. I do agree that we don't need another traditional deep KPF because one is enough.

Moore will provide that and he looks a "kick it to him one out", 10 possession and 3 goal a game player. Adding a massive tank to his game will be the difference between him becoming Jack or Nick Reiwoldt. Jack's fine of course, but Nick is arguably the second best KPF of the 21st century.

Find someone that will pair well with that (think Gunston/ Roughead, Darling/ Kennedy, Stringer/ Boyd or Redpath and Lynch/ Walker) and we're sweet.

FWIW it's why I doubt Cameron amd Patton will work together. Their games just aren't complimentary abd it's no coincidence Cameron's season hasn't hit the heights many expected.

 

[ThePhantom777]

We certainly don't have too many talls especially guys with high end talent. Of our KPF's that weren't father son selections none were drafted before pick 60 of a draft. If we had 4 father son KPF's that would be fine. Fact is we don't.

If we did have too many that would be a tremendous positive anyway because it would give us plenty of trade currency. As it stands though Cloke is all we have in terms of currency and his isn't what it used to be. I do agree that we don't need another traditional deep KPF because one is enough.

Moore will provide that and he looks a "kick it to him one out", 10 possession and 3 goal a game player. Adding a massive tank to his game will be the difference between him becoming Jack or Nick Reiwoldt. Jack's fine of course, but Nick is arguably the second best KPF of the 21st century.

Find someone that will pair well with that (think Gunston/ Roughead, Darling/ Kennedy, Stringer/ Boyd or Redpath and Lynch/ Walker) and we're sweet.

FWIW it's why I doubt Cameron amd Patton will work together. Their games just aren't complimentary abd it's no coincidence Cameron's season hasn't hit the heights many expected.

Love the Jack and Nick Riewoldt comparison. Hope he becomes more like Nick!

 

[Scodog10]

Love the Jack and Nick Riewoldt comparison. Hope he becomes more like Nick!

Haha I know we're on the same page, but just to clarify for others that won't be I'm not making an output comparison just type.

The way Moore flies for the ball is just so reminiscent of the Reiwoldt's and dare I say it a taller Modra.

His set shot kicking is what has the potential to take him from great to league best KPF if he can get those disposal numbers up which comes with a greater tank.

 

[jmac70]

We certainly don't have too many talls especially guys with high end talent. Of our KPF's that weren't father son selections none were drafted before pick 60 of a draft. If we had 4 father son KPF's that would be fine. Fact is we don't.

If we did have too many that would be a tremendous positive anyway because it would give us plenty of trade currency. As it stands though Cloke is all we have in terms of currency and his isn't what it used to be. I do agree that we don't need another traditional deep KPF because one is enough.

Moore will provide that and he looks a "kick it to him one out", 10 possession and 3 goal a game player. Adding a massive tank to his game will be the difference between him becoming Jack or Nick Reiwoldt. Jack's fine of course, but Nick is arguably the second best KPF of the 21st century.

Find someone that will pair well with that (think Gunston/ Roughead, Darling/ Kennedy, Stringer/ Boyd or Redpath and Lynch/ Walker) and we're sweet.

FWIW it's why I doubt Cameron amd Patton will work together. Their games just aren't complimentary abd it's no coincidence Cameron's season hasn't hit the heights many expected.

I was referring more to the traditional talls and the general lament that we didn't pick up Wright. Gunston and Stringer are that new breed of smaller forwards who can lead well and kick accurately. I agree that our forward line could use a player like that, hence my earlier reference to Scharenberg maybe playing that role. Howe is also an obvious option.

It matters little though because I expect Buckley will continue to pursue his philosophy of contested ball being king and we will see much the same results next season. It staggers me that we have not moved with the times of possession footy.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Lol, 700k for Witts. With that he'll be able to buy this lovely Westgate Bridge that I have for sale.

 

[Horaceg]

Can't see 700K being anywhere genuine but I do rate Witts and the big fear for me he will become a very handy ruckman that we let get away. If we can get back into the first round and having Grundy and also Cox to pinch hit when needed we should be covered.

 

[Apex36]

You have missed my point. I said we don't need any more talls, and I stand by that. In fact we will probably trade some of them out. Throughout this thread there are references made to us needing another KPF, and various second rate forwards are mentioned as possibilities. Jesus Christ, you would think our supporters would have learnt a lesson by now!

What we need is a functioning forward line. We already have an exciting key position player in Moore, as well as quality mid sized forwards in Fasolo and Elliott. All we need to make this forward structure work is decent kicking into the forward half.

The two biggest issues with our team is our zone defence and our execution by foot and hand. We should stop focussing so much on contested possession and work on our skills. That may seem like a simple view point but it has taken Clarkson to the brink of his fifth flag.

Recruiting another KPF is not going to improve us one bit. We need to focus more on getting some guys who can actually deliver the ball to a teammate.

And you're missing my point. I've not been an advocate for bringing in a second rate key forward at any point, rather than bringing in another quality draftee key forward to develop and partner Moore for the next decade because Cloke is not getting any younger, and is now looking unlikely to even finish his career at the pies. You're shifting the goal posts with the argument of 'too many talls' versus too many forwards. Ruckmen and defenders are not a part of this conversation, and irrelevant in relation to our forward structure needs. You're advocating a playing list that essentially will have 0 depth options if Cloke and Gault leave at years end. Regardless of our kicking skills, that's not good list management.

 

[Apex36]

Brisbane have offered Witts $700k deal. He's gone

Rofl. No way in hell has Witts been offered $700k

 

[Mkcaptain]

Not even Crazy Vossy would give Witts 700k a year.

 

[Kirby]

Rofl. No way in hell has Witts been offered $700k

Maybe that's over 3 years?

If he did get offered $700k a year then no wonder he split the webbing in his hand again!!!

 

[whiskeytown]

All this talk of adding another forward - SIMPLY GET BREUST, who is a free agent.

Offer him 600k a year for 4 years and you get someone who will convert over 80% of his 40 or so chances at goal a year and lay near 100 tackles for the year... twice as much as cloke will do at this stage of his career and for the 400k he's on next year...

Edit: And he is in the right age bracket, potentially offering some leadership to a list that has 26 players who are 23 or younger.

 

[CFC2010]

All this talk of adding another forward - SIMPLY GET BREUST, who is a free agent.

Offer him 600k a year for 4 years and you get someone who will convert over 80% of his 40 or so chances at goal a year and lay near 100 tackles for the year... twice as much as cloke will do at this stage of his career and for the 400k he's on next year...

I would love Breust for our team. He definitely knows how to kick the ball through the big sticks!

 

[whiskeytown]

I would love Breust for our team. He definitely knows how to kick the ball through the big sticks!

Like John Lennon i imagine...

Elliot Moore Breust

Fasolo Cox (resting midfielder/crumber)

# I believe Howe and Reid shouldn't be moved from defence unless we find capable replacements e.g. Scharenberg comes good

 

[CFC2010]

Like John Lennon i imagine...

Elliot Moore Breust

Fasolo Cox (resting midfielder/crumber)?

# I believe Howe and Reid shouldn't be moved from defence unless we find capable replacements e.g. Scharenberg comes good

How about a Brown Or Daicos?