Concussion Rule

[chargers 09]

Before I rant im just clarifying that a player after being knocked unconcious can come back into play after 15 minutes?
If this is correct then this is absolute farce, In boxing (Pro) if someone is concussed, im pretty sure they can't begin training for 3-6 months depending on how bad the concusionj is. Can someone clarify this rule for me?

 

[Lotch]

Before I rant im just clarifying that a player after being knocked unconcious can come back into play after 15 minutes?
If this is correct then this is absolute farce, In boxing (Pro) if someone is concussed, im pretty sure they can't begin training for 3-6 months depending on how bad the concusionj is. Can someone clarify this rule for me?

Players have to complete some basic tests before being allowed back on the field. Not sure about the time restrictions or limitations.

An article posted last year discussed the matter after several players appeared to be severely concussed but returned later.

Concussion an AFL grey matter

 

[Lotch]

Here is some more information on it from a 2010 article.

Link

THE AFL's medical department says concussed players are adequately supported and managed but admits it has concerns for those that have sustained multiple head injuries.

The League’s concussion test, which is carried out after a knock to the head is sustained, sees memory, reaction and function all assessed before the player is allowed back on the field.

While the AFL Medical Officers Association's Dr Hugh Seward is satisfied in the standards upheld in regards to concussed players, he believes frequent recipients of the injury need to be monitored further.

"Concussion is managed well, and the AFL medical officers in conjunction with the AFL research board have produced concussion guidelines for all people who play Australian football," he told afl.com.au.

"We are concerned about players who repeatedly get concussed and they are subject to more intense scrutiny than they should be.

"We’re currently looking at some guidelines to help clubs monitor those players on a long-term basis.

Link

 

[David the Cat]

This has been a concern of mine for a long time. I know club doctors are there to assess players, but one day something may well go wrong and a players well being, and a doctors safety from litigation, could well go out the window in the pursuit of a victory.

At one stage the AFL had a " one week rest" rule for players who were knocked unconscious in games. Now that seems to have gone out the window and even in extreme cases ( e.g Hawthorn's Lewis ) where the player goes into convulsions, he can return to the field of play in 30 minutes. I don't believe this is right. A players welfare should be paramount and I wonder if in the pursuit of victory standards have been eased a little too far.

For me, the " one week rest" rule is erring on the side of appropriate caution. Concussion is not a condition to be ignored.

I hope this thread attracts serious and educated debate ( rather than the boofhead brigade " gotta be tough " response ) because its an issue for the AFL IMO and one that deserves further scrutiny.

 

[Lotch]

It was definitively put in the spot light last year with several players cleared to play after massive clashes.

One of the players who would repetitively get knocks to or near the head is Jude Bolton. So I found an article and video about those incidents for you

Doctors defend sending concussed Bolton back on - 5/5/10 SMH

[YOUTUBE]E4PI5mp7ogo[/YOUTUBE]

Bolton and the panel talk about head clashes, playing on and after effects from roughly 3.40 -5.40.

It is a very interesting topic because in most other sports a concussion rules them out for the game or an extended period of time.

 

[Effes]

We will see changes to this policy IMO this/next year.

If players are knocked out they will not be able to return to the field that game OR play the next week.

The assessment of the player in the week(s) ahead will be carried out by a neurologist/medical professional who is NOT connected to the club concerned.

Is someone able to elaborate on what takes place in the NFL when someone is knocked out?

 

[Jobe Watson]

Is someone able to elaborate on what takes place in the NFL when someone is knocked out?

My understanding is the NFL are very strict when it comes to possible concussions. If a player is knocked out or even suffers a heavy knock to the head, they are straight off and can't return to the game. I also doubt they would be allowed to play the week after, depending on severity. In fact, I think this season they have brought in new rules to outlaw helmet-on-helmet hits because of the high rate of head injuries. And all you've gotta do is look at Brett Favre last year. Suffered a concussion near the end of his final NFL season, and two weeks after it he still couldn't pass an NFL post-concussion test and therefore wasn't allowed to participate in his send off game.

Also you can look to the NHL. Star player Sidney Crosby has been out for 24 straight games now due to a concussion injury. They treat it very serious over there.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Can't watch that youtube vid, but i was going to bring up Jude Bolton vs Brisbane last year. He was knocked out cold after a headclash with McGuire, but he came back on later and ended up receiving another knock to the head whereby he could barely stand and was staggering a fair bit.

I have a genuine concern for players knocked out, i would have thought it would have been in the best interest for the players health that if you were knocked out you should be done for the day. But i'm not a doctor.

 

[Daics35Marvel]

This has become a huge issue over here in North America. I was shocked to see how seriously concussion in treated in the NHL. A concussed player will frequently miss 3-4 weeks. They are never even considered to return to the game. A few players have had their careers ruined by concussion and currently the best player in the league, Sidney Crosby, has been out since Jan 1st with concussion and is likely to miss the rest of the season.

I understood that recent medical evidence had shown that concussions are far more dangerous to long-term brain function than previously thought. I expect that this will soon become a much bigger issue in AFL.

Edit: When I wrote this I didn't even realize that this is a front page story in one of the newspapers here in Canada today.
Link

 

[legend166]

If you want to hear a discussion on the issue in American sports, this is a really good podcast from Bill Simmons:

http://podloc.andomedia.com/dloadTr...om/audio/525569/simmons_2011-03-08-145009.mp3

And the Wiki article on the degenerative disease that can occur due to repeat concussions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy

 

[J_Moore]

We need a serious long term study of past AFL players, with some giving their bodies/brains up for medical study.

With the NFL/Boxing thing, there's debate over whether the clearly observable pattern of cognitive problems in ex-athletes is a result of a few heavy concussions (like the type Bolton picks up in those videos), or due to the sort of repeat lower-impact traumas that result from using your head as a battering ram every play.

I would've thought a study of AFL players, where those sort of sub-concussive hits are far less frequent, but where players are routinely knocked out, would be helpful.

But yeah, the boofhead "gotta be tough" shit doesn't sit well with me as a fan. I'd hate to think I'm contributing to an industry that leaves guys with serious long-term mental issues.

 

[giantsully]

The Bolton head clashes, while inspiring, have certainly left me pretty uncomfortable over the years. It's a not a policy I have any great confidence in.

 

[Jade]

Before I rant im just clarifying that a player after being knocked unconcious can come back into play after 15 minutes?
If this is correct then this is absolute farce, In boxing (Pro) if someone is concussed, im pretty sure they can't begin training for 3-6 months depending on how bad the concusionj is. Can someone clarify this rule for me?

From an AFL perspective no I can't, but Boxing I can, and what you have stated isn't right.

There is nothing stopping a boxer from training immediately if concussed. I think you may be confusing it with a brain injury, which will normally cause the given athletic commission to suspend a fighter indefinetely. However, due to the fact that Boxing has no universal authority, a fighter suspended in one jurisdiction can likely find another that will license him anyway.

 

[legend166]

We need a serious long term study of past AFL players, with some giving their bodies up for medical.

With the NFL/Boxing thing, there's debate over whether the clearly observable pattern of cognitive problems later in life for ex-athletes is a result of a few heavy concussions (like the type Bolton picks up in those videos), or due to repeat lower-impact traumas result from using your head as a battering ram every play.

A study of AFL players, where those sort of sub-concussive hits are far less frequent, would be helpful, I would've thought.

But yeah, the boofhead "gotta be tough" shit doesn't sit well with me as a fan. I'd hate to think I contributing to an industry that left guys with serious long-term mental issues as a matter of course.

Very good point.

The debate has basically no traction in Australia though, so it might take awhile to get that research rolling. The AFL trying to reduce head injuries has been a very good thing, but they've failed spectacularly at educating people as to why. So everyone has just jumped on the 'the AFL is getting soft trying to appeal to soccer mums' bandwagon.

 

[FRUMPY]

For anyone who has played local footy would know that most concussions in footy are not that serious and are more grogginess. Within 5-20 minutes you will be your normal self with no side effects. There are the odd concussion that players will sit out the game and the next week, (Judd vs Essendon when he and lloyd knocked heads), but they are for pretty serious concussions.

Doctors are good enough to know when players are right to go back out or not. Incidents like Bolton are unlucky in that they copped a knock straight away again. I would trust a doctor with their decisions than anyone else.

Sometimes they may get it wrong but as Tony Abbot put it once, 'Shit Happens'. There shouldnt be a concrete rule in regard to this as there are different grades of concussion.

 

[legend166]

For anyone who has played local footy would know that most concussions in footy are not that serious and are more grogginess. Within 5-20 minutes you will be your normal self with no side effects. There are the odd concussion that players will sit out the game and the next week, (Judd vs Essendon when he and lloyd knocked heads), but they are for pretty serious concussions.

Doctors are good enough to know when players are right to go back out or not. Incidents like Bolton are unlucky in that they copped a knock straight away again. I would trust a doctor with their decisions than anyone else.

Sometimes they may get it wrong but as Tony Abbot put it once, 'Shit Happens'. There shouldnt be a concrete rule in regard to this as there are different grades of concussion.

You've really just ignored everything everyone in this thread has been saying.

 

[Lotch]

Massive implications on the game and concussion rule following the introduction of substitutes.

The Age has written an article on the problems with the rules and long term effects on players involved.

Link

Ahead of the curve? Will the designated substitute curb high impact injuries?
Will Brodie March 17, 2011 - 2:24PM

Link

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Just a note on the 'convulsions' bit aluded to in one of the first posts.

In regard to a knockout are convulsions actually a sign of something more sinister? The reason I ask is because I train in BJJ (Submission grappling) and its not uncommon for someone to convulse when theyre choked unconscious (which is basically a more gentle way of being knocked out, one the brain shorts due to an impact, the other the brain 'shuts down' due to lack of oxygen), however this isnt an indication of something bad, its just nerve endings firing causing the body to twitch and so on.

People wont necessarily twitch every time theyre choked out, probably not even 1 in 10 and it seems to differ from person to person, some people just slump down, some people lock their legs straight, some people twitch or talk.

I guess when it comes to the brain nothing is simple and regardless of whether or not its a possible indicator or not each case should be treated carefully.

 

[quotemokc]

Boxing shouldn't be considered because they are taking constant hits to the head thus sustaining head injuries differently and more frequently probably relating in a weaker skull.

I think it is a strong point that in UFC if a player is knocked that is the end of the fight, but once again different sport different circumstances.

 

[chargers 09]

Sorrry, I started this thread last time and didn't really follow it up as I way away. Thanks for the videos and such. It seems that the general consensus is that the current concussion rule in the AFL ins't up to standard.

What do some informed poste3rs on here think the rule should be?
Imo a player probably shouldn't be able to return to the field of play, don't know where i'd go from there. Can sense a serious law suit coming the AFL's way soon.

 

[David the Cat]

Personally I think if you're a stretcher case it should mean one week off...no exceptions. That used to be the rule...

Certainly, if you are concussed and need to be assisted from the field, coming back on shouldn't be an option IMO. The players welfare must come first.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The Bolton head clashes, while inspiring, have certainly left me pretty uncomfortable over the years. It's a not a policy I have any great confidence in.

What made it worse was the fact that a short time before he had those multiple head clashes in the single game, he had been on the footy show talking about the concussion tests they put you through before they let you go back out. It's some type of cognitive test, where they measure your results when you are perfectly healthy in pre-season and that's what they stack your answers up against after a head clash. Bolton (light-heartedly) said something about not exactly trying to ace the pre-season test.

I'm not sure what the answer is during the game, but the week following, I think the player should be independently examined by a medical officer employed by the AFL before being cleared to play. It's a very thorny issue during the game. On the one hand, I agree wholeheartedly, it's a very big risk for players to come back on after a big head clash and there is plenty of evidence that it has done long-term damage in NFL players. And yet, if Joel Selwood had been cleaned up going back with the flight of the ball, been laid out for a minute and stretchered off, if he came back on 30 minutes later, I'll probably be cheering him on, along with everyone else.

 

[compass]

Now the AFL decides to change rules 3 days before round 1

AFL KO's concussed players returning to field

* Mike Sheahan
* From: Herald Sun
* March 22, 2011 12:00AM

THE AFL is to ban concussed players from returning to the field of play.

It will announce much stricter controls as early as today, to be effective from Round 1.

The new legislation will outlaw concussed players from any further part in games in which they have been injured, regardless of whether they successfully complete the traditional response test, or how long they have spent on the bench.

...

Full Story Here


It may well be an important change for player welfare, but why now? They had the whole off-season.

 

[Neville Bartos]

Re: Now the AFL decides to change rules 3 days before round 1

Wow, this is dangerous. Club Doctors will be under immense pressure to declare players free of concussion even if it's a barely noticeable one because the player will effectively be sent off. It could cost games and if you've ever played footy, most coaches don't take kindly to having reduced interchanges

 

[Father Jack]

Re: Now the AFL decides to change rules 3 days before round 1

i thought the response test was to determine if they were concussed in the first place?

Edit: It seems they simply put the onus on the club doctors now, which is fair enough, the man on the spot now has the power to make the call. Doctors are doctors, after all.

The most memorable example came in the Hawthorn-Western Bulldogs game in Round 3 when Hawk Jordan Lewis was knocked out in a marking contest and carried from the field on a stretcher.

He was hurt just before half-time and returned early in the last quarter. He suffered ill-effects for the following three weeks.

Apart from the welfare of players, there is a growing fear within the industry of long-term damage and subsequent litigation.