Tasmania Congratulations on Tassie License. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5

[Chief]

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GO TO PART 2 of this thread:

Tasmania - Tasmania Devils, welcome to the AFL. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5 (Part 2)

Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/congratulations-on-tassie-license-mens-team-to-enter-2028-womens-team-tba-other-details-tba-3-5.1226653/ Was going to draft up a Summary but this is pretty good...

www.bigfooty.com

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[nick1408]

Thanks for the facts, shame the poster earlier couldn't post them.

It's an okay turn out, 8000 is super small for a once in a lifetime opportunity of watching the Ashes.

The AFL certainly wouldn't be happy with 8000 crowds... You'd have to DOUBLE that at least for them to even sustain an AFL team.

I don't know the finances that any Tasmanian side would get the stadium for but no side currently sells 80% of their stadium weekly on average (edit outside Perth and Adelaide sides). in 2019 Richmond averaged 60% of it's home ground capacity. Brisbane (the smallest regular AFL ground outside of GWS and Gold Coast also outside of Victoria) averaged ~58%. For a similar ratio at Bellerive the Tasmanian side would need to average ~12000 per week at home.

Of course, there is a lot that goes into financing an AFL team and it isn't all about how many rock up each week.

 

[Kappa]

I don't know the finances that any Tasmanian side would get the stadium for but no side currently sells 80% of their stadium weekly on average (edit outside Perth and Adelaide sides). in 2019 Richmond averaged 60% of it's home ground capacity. Brisbane (the smallest regular AFL ground outside of GWS and Gold Coast also outside of Victoria) averaged ~58%. For a similar ratio at Bellerive the Tasmanian side would need to average ~12000 per week at home.

Of course, there is a lot that goes into financing an AFL team and it isn't all about how many rock up each week.

Percentages are COMPLETELY meaningless when some stadiums at 5 times bigger than others... 8-10k crowds for an AFL team would be a disaster, that's much smaller than GWS !

 

[Jazny]

Percentages are COMPLETELY meaningless when some stadiums at 5 times bigger than others... 8-10k crowds for an AFL team would be a disaster, that's much smaller than GWS !

Sydney vs North Melbourne got a 16k crowd at Blundstone Arena. Aurora Stadium, in the middle of a pandemic, got 15k for Hawthorn vs Essendon. Im pretty sure even Tasmania vs some bottom four dwelling side.. say Collingwood... would get 16k at either venue.

 

[Mr Taswegian]

The first three days were sold out with 14000 tickets sold to each day but then Covid Came and desimated the numbers,it is the presales you need to look at.

 

[Kappa]

Sydney vs North Melbourne got a 16k crowd at Blundstone Arena. Aurora Stadium, in the middle of a pandemic, got 15k for Hawthorn vs Essendon. Im pretty sure even Tasmania vs some bottom four dwelling side.. say Collingwood... would get 16k at either venue.

I could also cherry pick a bunch of crowds that were dismal, what does that prove?

Also 16k is not something to be proud of, teams like GWS who get 16k are under pressure to even retain their position in the AFL...

 

[Jazny]

I could also cherry pick a bunch of crowds that were dismal

You could... but you would only be embarrassing yourself further.

 

[Kwality]

I don't know the finances that any Tasmanian side would get the stadium for but no side currently sells 80% of their stadium weekly on average (edit outside Perth and Adelaide sides). in 2019 Richmond averaged 60% of it's home ground capacity. Brisbane (the smallest regular AFL ground outside of GWS and Gold Coast also outside of Victoria) averaged ~58%. For a similar ratio at Bellerive the Tasmanian side would need to average ~12000 per week at home.

Of course, there is a lot that goes into financing an AFL team and it isn't all about how many rock up each week.

Tas is heartland as are SA & WA. Its that model they need to follow.

 

[nick1408]

Tas is heartland as are SA & WA. Its that model they need to follow.

As is Victoria.

Just for completeness to my previous post:
2019 crowd averages (% of capacity):

• West Coast 88%
• Adelaide 83%
• Fremantle 68%
• Port Adelaide 63%
• York Park 70% (four matches)
• Bellerive Oval 50% (four matches)

I think the West Coast model (and you will know this far more than me - I'm looking from the outside in) of heavily sponsor-based income backed by strong crowds would be ideal. Having a waiting list for memberships means demand is there for West Coast and Adelaide. This is one area I think will be replicated in Tasmania. When you only have a capacity of 20000 then there will be a waiting list almost immediately. The biggest difference will be that both Perth and Adelaide clubs are drawing from a centralised population while Tasmania will be drawing on a dispersed population. It isn't a bad thing as currently their facilities should meet the demand (as well as that of travelling supporters).

What I can't predict is what may happen by having a home in both Hobart and Launceston. I don't think they will cannibalise each other, I think it will allow more supporters to get to matches while most likely not having the sellouts weekly some here are demanding. Someone with more knowledge on the locations will be able to offer a better prediction than my pure guess though.

The part of the WA model that I do think will work is having the commission you guys have. Tasmania seems to have too many people with different agendas for football there. State leagues have stood up then failed. The current TSL may be losing more clubs according to reports a couple of weeks ago. I think what needs to happen is all these different bodies come under one banner for the betterment of football in Tasmania with the AFL team at the top and the state league(s) providing a level of developmental support.

Whether the clubs agree to this or not I really don't know.

 

[Rob]

As is Victoria.

Just for completeness to my previous post:
2019 crowd averages (% of capacity):

• West Coast 88%
• Adelaide 83%
• Fremantle 68%
• Port Adelaide 63%
• York Park 70% (four matches)
• Bellerive Oval 50% (four matches)

I think the West Coast model (and you will know this far more than me - I'm looking from the outside in) of heavily sponsor-based income backed by strong crowds would be ideal. Having a waiting list for memberships means demand is there for West Coast and Adelaide. This is one area I think will be replicated in Tasmania. When you only have a capacity of 20000 then there will be a waiting list almost immediately. The biggest difference will be that both Perth and Adelaide clubs are drawing from a centralised population while Tasmania will be drawing on a dispersed population. It isn't a bad thing as currently their facilities should meet the demand (as well as that of travelling supporters).

Bear in mind that comes with super high prices. The cheapest adult ticket to a West Coast game is $58. And that's the nose bleeds.

That's really the only way a small crowd model works. By "works" I mean operating without the need for large AFL handouts. The West Coast model is large crowds at high prices, which is why they're the biggest club in the league by some distance.

 

[HPKS]

As is Victoria.

Just for completeness to my previous post:
2019 crowd averages (% of capacity):

• West Coast 88%
• Adelaide 83%
• Fremantle 68%
• Port Adelaide 63%
• York Park 70% (four matches)
• Bellerive Oval 50% (four matches)

I think the West Coast model (and you will know this far more than me - I'm looking from the outside in) of heavily sponsor-based income backed by strong crowds would be ideal. Having a waiting list for memberships means demand is there for West Coast and Adelaide. This is one area I think will be replicated in Tasmania. When you only have a capacity of 20000 then there will be a waiting list almost immediately. The biggest difference will be that both Perth and Adelaide clubs are drawing from a centralised population while Tasmania will be drawing on a dispersed population. It isn't a bad thing as currently their facilities should meet the demand (as well as that of travelling supporters).

What I can't predict is what may happen by having a home in both Hobart and Launceston. I don't think they will cannibalise each other, I think it will allow more supporters to get to matches while most likely not having the sellouts weekly some here are demanding. Someone with more knowledge on the locations will be able to offer a better prediction than my pure guess though.

The part of the WA model that I do think will work is having the commission you guys have. Tasmania seems to have too many people with different agendas for football there. State leagues have stood up then failed. The current TSL may be losing more clubs according to reports a couple of weeks ago. I think what needs to happen is all these different bodies come under one banner for the betterment of football in Tasmania with the AFL team at the top and the state league(s) providing a level of developmental support.

Whether the clubs agree to this or not I really don't know.

The AFL will not allow Tassie to have their own west coast style setup with a Tassie commission owning the license. They despise independence. They’ll want control of everything from the side right down to auskick. It’ll be closer to a Sydney style setup.

 

[Jazny]

They can do whatever they like as long as we get a team!

 

[HPKS]

They can do whatever they like as long as we get a team!

You’d like some independence.

 

[Jazny]

You’d like some independence.

Sure but at this point I'd just take a team

 

[HPKS]

Sure but at this point I'd just take a team

With no independence you end up with the GC scenario with the afl controlling everything and by past experiences it’s not a very good experience. Imo a Sydney style setup will be agreed upon & will work. Btw Im originally from Tassie

 

[nick1408]

Bear in mind that comes with super high prices. The cheapest adult ticket to a West Coast game is $58. And that's the nose bleeds.

That's really the only way a small crowd model works. By "works" I mean operating without the need for large AFL handouts. The West Coast model is large crowds at high prices, which is why they're the biggest club in the league by some distance.

Isn't that supply and demand though? If the demand is there and the supply is small you can charge what you like. If that becomes the situation in Tasmania it'll almost be a cartel as there is no competition like you guys provide in Perth.

 

[Rob]

Isn't that supply and demand though? If the demand is there and the supply is small you can charge what you like. If that becomes the situation in Tasmania it'll almost be a cartel as there is no competition like you guys provide in Perth.

Of course it's supply and demand. But it's the demand bit that determines how sustainable an AFL club is. A model based on low supply and low prices won't work long term, not without heavy external funding anyway.

 

[nick1408]

Of course it's supply and demand. But it's the demand bit that determines how sustainable an AFL club is. A model based on low supply and low prices won't work long term, not without heavy external funding anyway.

Agreed, but when you only have 20000 seats to fill every second week plus add in that only half the games will be local to the respective population they could actually set themselves up for high demand in two different locations.

I'm not 100% sure but I think the government support already promised will be unique too. it's a revenue stream that most other clubs cannot rely upon.

 

[Kwality]

Isn't that supply and demand though? If the demand is there and the supply is small you can charge what you like. If that becomes the situation in Tasmania it'll almost be a cartel as there is no competition like you guys provide in Perth.

West Coasts first owner went broke, with the current model a result of the State Government picking up the pieces. Sure there is more to it than that, making the WA model worth considering in Tas.

 

[Walshawk]

You said there were 10.5k there each day, was this a lie?

Incorrect. I said they all sold 10.5k tickets that we available for each day (cOVID limit). There were another 500 tickets made available for each day when it was apparent that there would be a lot of rain no shows due to many people being sick and/or having to isolate.
Surely this is not hard to understand.

 

[Mr Taswegian]

You could... but you would only be embarrassing yourself further.

You could... but you would only be embarrassing yourself further.

Incorrect. I said they all sold 10.5k tickets that we available for each day (cOVID limit). There were another 500 tickets made available for each day when it was apparent that there would be a lot of rain no shows due to many people being sick and/or having to isolate.
Surely this is not hard to understand.

Was capped at 14000 ,they said that all along and all those tickets were sold to the first three days but Covid obviously decimated the numbers.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. Having many years of neglect/ mismanagement/underfunding from the VFL/AFL has caused GR & male elite AF in Tasmania to become moribund, & in decline. Tas. GR club male player comp. nos. have increased, however, in the last 3 years.

Female GR AF comp. nos., however, have been booming (from an original low base in 2016) in Tasmania in the last 3 years. Organic growth? Probably credit to the AFL is also warranted.

I consider it extraordinary that, in the 2021 NAB Girls League U19 comp., Tas. finished second. The Tas. girls are, I assume, not as well resourced etc. & AF "battle-hardened". There are another 12 NAB teams from metro Melbourne & major regional towns in country Vic.

The NAB League will revert to girls' Under 16 & Under 18 comps. in 2022.

NAB League Girls 2022 fixture released: Next generation of women’s talent on show from this weekend​

The 2022 NAB League Girls competition will commence earlier this year to more closely align to the NAB AFLW season
www.afl.com.au


This suggests that Tas.'s AF pedigree is still strong, & Tas. female GR, & elite female AF, will probably boom even further with proper pathways & much increased funding. And their own, 19th AFL team, of course.
Female GR AF in Tas. represents a huge opportunity for the AFL- hopefully this gold mine can be cultivated, so it reaches its full potential.

Can anyone advise on how the Tas. female U19 NAB League team (which suffers from Tas.'s "Tyranny Of Distance"/disparate elite squads etc., in 2021, finished second in the comp.?

Lessons for Tas. male GR & elite NAB League teams etc. from the Tas. U19's female great success?







2. afltasmania 26.8.21

afltasmania said


"After such a difficult year because of the pandemic, 2021 has shown how important the game is to so many Tasmanians with record [?] numbers [Not in male club comp. nos.- & 2021 Auskick nos. are down, overall, 4%, cf 2019 nos.] playing community football.

Total registered participants is up six per cent on 2019, with female participation continuing to surge.

Participation in boys and men’s club football is also up across the board on 2019 levels, with youth numbers particularly encouraging, indicating strong interest in playing club football among the younger generation of Tasmanian boys and girls.

Tasmanian community and local football participation in 2021 highlights (year-to-date):

• 19/21 YoY growth in community football total registered participants up 6%
• Youth football leagues – 19/21 YoY participation growth: Female: 23% / Male: 7% / Total 12%
• Senior football leagues – 19/21 YoY participation growth: Female: 6% / Male 1% / Total 2%
• Umpiring: 19/21 YoY growth in total registrations up 13% (emphases & words in brackets, mine)".

AFL Tasmania thanks Tasmanians for bringing community football back | AFL Tasmania

www.afltas.com.au

 

[JackFlash]

With the two Western based teams in jeopardy until McClown says otherwise, go 16 teams until Tassie arrive and give another licence to NSW or SA? The West has shot it's bolt as part of Australia and can play among themselves forever more. Axe those two teams now and give the season a chance!

 

[TWLS]

With the two Western based teams in jeopardy until McClown says otherwise, go 16 teams until Tassie arrive and give another licence to NSW or SA? The West has shot it's bolt as part of Australia and can play among themselves forever more. Axe those two teams now and give the season a chance!

Wow not so fast there Jackflash. Unofficially we think because of the huge almost overwhelming pressure on the Premier things will change in a month or so. He is getting an absolute flogging in all of the media here and here is a Premier who was on 80% approval.
The boosters jabs for February will be done and the nurses at RPH and elsewhere are saying we need the month to get better organised.

 

[Toump Ass]

With the two Western based teams in jeopardy until McClown says otherwise, go 16 teams until Tassie arrive and give another licence to NSW or SA? The West has shot it's bolt as part of Australia and can play among themselves forever more. Axe those two teams now and give the season a chance!

Hobart Dockers
Launceston Eagles

Easy as piss.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. L. Cameron states he fully supports an imminent Tas. 19th team in the AFL, as Tas. "deserves" to be in the AFL- but he, & GWS, are awaiting the detailed Report (due in July 2022) from the AFL/Tas. Govt. Bid Team Joint Review on the implications of their entry.

Dwayne's World

Dwayne’s World will have a strong focus on local and international sporting issues, with footy front and centre

www.sen.com.au

(Go to 21.2- then scroll down to D. Russel interview with L. Cameron. Tas.'s entry is discussed from 11 minutes 2 secs. - 13 mins 40 secs.).





2. On 18.2.22, A. Clarkson gives a very lengthy interview (just covering Tas. entry, 21 mins.!) on why he fully supports Tas. imminently joining the AFL as the 19th team. Clarkson is very keen.