News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV

[Val Keating]

There’s been high profile vocal antivaxxers begging for people to get vaccinated from their death bed in hospital. If that doesn’t convince them to get vaxxed then nothing will.

 

[Mick F]

Does the messaging need to be better? Absolutely. Are people tired of Andrews tone? Understandably yes.

For the record, I have no issue with people who are vaccine hesitant and are not conflating any excessive hatred with government or big pharma. All for the government to improve on the messaging too.

All for solutions that keep a healthy balance of people's freedom and safety. It's still an ongoing shitty balancing act at the moment. I sincerely feel for everyone whether it's for physical health, financial or mental health reasons.

I just merely pointed out that I didn't get your suggestion of isolating people who can't get vaccinated to allow the loosening of mandates. Don't understand the logic of it, nor the logistic of where it would even be feasible.

Would like to think my posts in this thread including the one your replied to were fairly balanced, not sure if your proposal was balanced or even empathetic to people stuck through no choice of their own. If I misunderstood, I'm happy to be corrected.

Definitely one of the better posters on one of the better threads.

 

[Val Keating]

What’s with SA bringing in new restrictions when they have over 80% vaccinated and only 774 new cases.

This is concerning no? Isn’t the whole point of getting vaccinated so we can go back to normal?

 

[Swallow_Wood]

The primary goal of state governments at this point and all throughout the pandemic has been to ensure the as close to normal functioning of the health system as possible. Sure, there have been * ups and missteps along the way, arse covering and influence from external actors, but restrictions and other control mechanisms have been in place for this purpose.

Omicron appears to be less severe than Delta although there will still be hospitalisations and deaths from this strain. As this infects the community the number of hospitalisations will rise and restrictions will likely return to keep the numbers in hospital under control. Keep in mind that as this is more infectious hospital staff will start going down in greater numbers too thus putting further pressure on the system.

Restrictions are distinct possibilities until this wave is ridden and most have been infected and have combo vaccine and natural immunity.

 

[Sillygit]

The government should go out of their way to placate people when they are pissing all over their rights.



I think it is important to empathise with people, even if you disagree with what they are doing. It is important we do not lose our humanity in a crisis.



I think it is important we try, and try and be more understanding and sympathetic. This government lied to their face that we just had to tough it out until we got to 75%, 80%, 85% and eventually 90% to reach herd immunity and we could go back to life as normal.

He knew, or should have known, herd immunity was never going to happen, we knew that six months ago when vaccinated people passed on covid and caught it multiple times yet he persisted with this lie to string along people until we could get to some vaccination level he plucked out of his arse that would allow everyone to go back to normal. Then he imposed some horrific restrictions on those who remained unvaccinated.

It is just senseless and cruel to people who have endured so much already. I know a lot of them are illogical and would just be easier to just get jabbed and moved on, but it has really lacked human empathy to treat people this way. He could have extended an olive branch, he knows we are on the precipice of approving two covid treatments. Is this what weary Victorians needed, a heavy-handed leader after all this misery?

Where is the empathy for these people?

The emapthy for these people? They show no empathy for others. They actively discard it and boast about it. It's their proudest badge to wear. They put bricks through windows of businesses that check qr codes, and threaten injury and death to others. They can ******* spin for all i care.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Spoke to a mate who works in the lab in sydney. They believe they will have a week backlog of over 500k tests by the weekend unless they get better resourcing.

Wait times have now blown out to 5 or 6 hrs at most testing clinics in NSW. Some places are up to 10-12hrs, due to staffing over the public holidays,

Regional areas are closing testing clinics after 2 or 3 hrs due to being overwhelmed.

The premier has stated that only symptomatic people should be getting PCR test, everyone else that’s a close contact should be using a rapid antigen test.

Little to no contact tracing happening even though they re-instated the QR check ins.

Going to s**t very quick.

 

[Shinboner1]

Really gotta try and get ontop of these testing problems.
Health care system failing was the difference between countries having high death toll and not.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

The government should go out of their way to placate people when they are pissing all over their rights.



I think it is important to empathise with people, even if you disagree with what they are doing. It is important we do not lose our humanity in a crisis.



I think it is important we try, and try and be more understanding and sympathetic. This government lied to their face that we just had to tough it out until we got to 75%, 80%, 85% and eventually 90% to reach herd immunity and we could go back to life as normal.

He knew, or should have known, herd immunity was never going to happen, we knew that six months ago when vaccinated people passed on covid and caught it multiple times yet he persisted with this lie to string along people until we could get to some vaccination level he plucked out of his arse that would allow everyone to go back to normal. Then he imposed some horrific restrictions on those who remained unvaccinated.

It is just senseless and cruel to people who have endured so much already. I know a lot of them are illogical and would just be easier to just get jabbed and moved on, but it has really lacked human empathy to treat people this way. He could have extended an olive branch, he knows we are on the precipice of approving two covid treatments. Is this what weary Victorians needed, a heavy-handed leader after all this misery?

Where is the empathy for these people?

I don’t think anyone was promised “back to life as normal” - it was always vaccinations plus continuing caution that would provide a way to live without lockdowns. I understand that people got excited and misunderstood, but it’s no excuse to carry on about having been deceived.

 

[grimface_87]

I don’t think anyone was promised “back to life as normal” - it was always vaccinations plus continuing caution that would provide a way to live without lockdowns. I understand that people got excited and misunderstood, but it’s no excuse to carry on about having been deceived.

Pretty sure ScoMo did to get everyone happy in time for the election

 

[koshari]

There’s been high profile vocal antivaxxers begging for people to get vaccinated from their death bed in hospital. If that doesn’t convince them to get vaxxed then nothing will.

blahhm they would just call him a traitor or a sellout. nothing will convinvice these nuffies.

 

[Tas]

I don’t think anyone was promised “back to life as normal” - it was always vaccinations plus continuing caution that would provide a way to live without lockdowns. I understand that people got excited and misunderstood, but it’s no excuse to carry on about having been deceived.

Yes, he referred to it as covid normal and he outlined the roadmap early September with all the lockdowns and how we would remove most of the restrictions through to the end of November and what vaccination milestones he was targeting.

What wasn't on the roadmap was the plan to harass those who for whatever reason chose to or could not vaccinate after we had achieved our vaccination target milestones.

I get it, if we were back at the beta variant, which was the most dangerous variant to date, and it could only be spread via droplets and if unvaccinated presented a greater danger to society than vaccinated then sure, there would be a reason to isolate them from the rest of the community, much like we did with people coming into the state who had to go into quarantine.

However, the unvaccinated do not represent a greater risk to society than vaccinated. It is in their best interest to be vaccinated, but Omicron has spread like wildfire even in countries that are 100% vaccinated and data suggest is is far less dangerous than any other variant, particularly if you are vaccinated. Is the government reaction an unnecessary use of coercive powers when vaccinations in this country are meant to be voluntary? I can understand how part of the communities sees that and I empathise with people who have had enough.

I am too apathetic to care either way for myself, but these lockdowns didn't impact me like it has other people, so should I be judging these people? I don't think I should and I would hope people have some empathy, even for people they disagree with.

I personally do not think vaccination should be voluntary, but until that is the law I don't think we should punish people who choose not to vaccinate.

 

[Shinboner1]

Yes, he referred to it as covid normal and he outlined the roadmap early September with all the lockdowns and how we would remove most of the restrictions through to the end of November and what vaccination milestones he was targeting.

What wasn't on the roadmap was the plan to harass those who for whatever reason chose to or could not vaccinate after we had achieved our vaccination target milestones.

I get it, if we were back at the beta variant, which was the most dangerous variant to date, and it could only be spread via droplets and if unvaccinated presented a greater danger to society than vaccinated then sure, there would be a reason to isolate them from the rest of the community, much like we did with people coming into the state who had to go into quarantine.

However, the unvaccinated do not represent a greater risk to society than vaccinated. It is in their best interest to be vaccinated, but Omicron has spread like wildfire even in countries that are 100% vaccinated and data suggest is is far less dangerous than any other variant, particularly if you are vaccinated. Is the government reaction an unnecessary use of coercive powers when vaccinations in this country are meant to be voluntary? I can understand how part of the communities sees that and I empathise with people who have had enough.

I am too apathetic to care either way for myself, but these lockdowns didn't impact me like it has other people, so should I be judging these people? I don't think I should and I would hope people have some empathy, even for people they disagree with.

I personally do not think vaccination should be voluntary, but until that is the law I don't think we should punish people who choose not to vaccinate.

Pre Omicron.

 

[B4Bear]

NSW has raised the white flag.

‘’Saint Gladys of Covid was replaced by an even worse leader; hard to believe, but here we are.

 

[Val Keating]

I don’t think anyone was promised “back to life as normal” - it was always vaccinations plus continuing caution that would provide a way to live without lockdowns. I understand that people got excited and misunderstood, but it’s no excuse to carry on about having been deceived.

It’s more then that. Life must go back to normal because what’s the point if we can’t live freely? It’s pretty concerning how easily people have accepted that we’re going to be living in a policed state from now on.

There has to be a clear path out of this and if the government is unwilling to commit to it they’ll be voted out by one that will. People have had enough. 2 years of life already wasted, this can’t continue.

 

[Tas]

Pre Omicron.

Even with Delta, which was also airborne and transmitted aggressively. We just didn't have access to the vaccine at the start of it. Most of the people who were in hospital with a serious case were unvaccinated and had at least one other comorbidity. With alpha and beta, these could only be spread via droplet, so if someone who had covid wasn't wearing a mask, they were a danger to the community. Mask wont stop you from being exposed to the airborne variants, not even the N95 masks sealed with tape can do that.

So what danger do these people represent to the rest of the vaccinated community? They are taking on an extreme risk to themselves personally, especially if they have other health conditions.

I think we have issues we need to address, particularly with vaccination, but as long it is voluntary, it is immoral to target and punish people who do not take them and I think the government is going to pay for it come the next election. I would prefer we didn't put in a worse party into power just because we handled the tail end of this crisis with an unnecessarily heavy hand.

 

[B4Bear]

It’s more then that. Life must go back to normal because what’s the point if we can’t live freely? It’s pretty concerning how easily people have accepted that we’re going to be living in a policed state from now on.

There has to be a clear path out of this and if the government is unwilling to commit to it they’ll be voted out by one that will. People have had enough. 2 years of life already wasted, this can’t continue.

I could just as easily say that two years of actively undermining state governments because the federal government won’t do its job has to stop.

Or that the media who has run a disinformation campaign of lies and hostility needs to be held to account.

Or that social media companies, including BF should be held liable for giving conspiracy theories and misinformation a platform, must be held to account.

‘Or that ‘muh freedom’ brigade who have attacked police, health care workers and shops for enforcing government laws need to be jailed.

‘’People need to wear a mask, get vaccinated and understand that this has a long way to run.

 

[Val Keating]

I could just as easily say that two years of actively undermining state governments because the federal government won’t do its job has to stop.

Or that the media who has run a disinformation campaign of lies and hostility needs to be held to account.

Or that social media companies, including BF should be held liable for giving conspiracy theories and misinformation a platform, must be held to account.

‘Or that ‘muh freedom’ brigade who have attacked police, health care workers and shops for enforcing government laws need to be jailed.

‘’People need to wear a mask, get vaccinated and understand that this has a long way to run.

I don’t get were you’re coming from here? Doesn’t really relate to my post and is just whataboutisim.

You could just say that Melbourne has endured more lockdowns then anywhere on the planet and we’re over 90% vaccinated so I don’t see the need for any precautions, unless the vaccine is useless.

 

[Tas]

The emapthy for these people? They show no empathy for others. They actively discard it and boast about it. It's their proudest badge to wear. They put bricks through windows of businesses that check qr codes, and threaten injury and death to others. They can ******* spin for all i care.

It is a bit of a strawman to describe everyone as a brick throwing fascist, don't you think?

 

[Tas]

Sadly, anti-vaxxers in a nutshell.

‘Little virus’: Anti-vaxxer dies after discharging himself from hospital

Anti-vaxxer kickboxing champion Frederic Sinistra has died from Covid complications after he discharged himself from the hospital.

www.news.com.au

 

[B4Bear]

I don’t get were you’re coming from here? Doesn’t really relate to my post and is just whataboutisim.

You could just say that Melbourne has endured more lockdowns then anywhere on the planet and we’re over 90% vaccinated so I don’t see the need for any precautions, unless the vaccine is useless.

‘This can’t continue’ is what I am refuting, badly.

‘It will continue for as long as it has to. NSW is happy to see their citizens exposed with the ‘let it rip’ method. Victoria not so much.

Some pandemics have run for decades, even centuries. And I am saying this will go on for a few years yet, complaining about masks and some restrictions (not talking lockdowns here) is pointless.

Accept there will be restrictions for the near future and get on with your life. They are not very onerous and are saving lives.

 

[Val Keating]

‘This can’t continue’ is what I am refuting, badly.

‘It will continue for as long as it has to. NSW is happy to see their citizens exposed with the ‘let it rip’ method. Victoria not so much.

Some pandemics have run for decades, even centuries. And I am saying this will go on for a few years yet, complaining about masks and some restrictions (not talking lockdowns here) is pointless.

Accept there will be restrictions for the near future and get on with your life. They are not very onerous and are saving lives.

But with the vaccination rate lives aren’t in danger like they were before.

 

[Sillygit]

It is a bit of a strawman to describe everyone as a brick throwing fascist, don't you think?

sure sure, strawman, they don't exist, whatever man.

 

[Ry009]

Even as a husband of a wife who has suffered mentally, lost their job and copped a diagnosis of being immunocompromised.....we cant nor we shouldn't return to lockdowns.

There does need to be some acceptance though that COVID is an ever moving beast, and there needs to be a balance of looking after EVERYONE.

I agree we can't completely ignore those refusing to get the vaccine and need to improve comms, we also can't say "* it, we've spent two years dealing with this, and life has to go EXACTLY how it was pre COVID, and * everyone else"

Not exactly full of empathy there IMO.

 

[B4Bear]

But with the vaccination rate lives aren’t in danger like they were before.

I agree. But it is too soon to tell if we are out of the woods.

‘Omicron could just as easily mutate into a worse strain.

Then again we could actually get herd immunity.

‘’But the calls to go back to pre-Covid is way to soon, and dangerous for the community as a whole imo.

 

[Val Keating]

I agree. But it is too soon to tell if we are out of the woods.

‘Omicron could just as easily mutate into a worse strain.

Then again we could actually get herd immunity.

‘’But the calls to go back to pre-Covid is way to soon, and dangerous for the community as a whole imo.

But we’re vaccinated.