- Jun 29, 2013
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Coronavirus/COVID-19
- Thread starter dogwatch
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We would have over 100,000 cases if he were. Doubt he would lose it, as previously discussed, he is the ‘great white hope’.
Oh man it actually messes with my head reading these MD posts and trying to track the logic from one sentence to the next. Every post is like a work of art masterfully designed to make the reader question their own sanity. It's great stuff.
- Apr 23, 2013
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True , Andrews not that funny , but If he has to hang up the boots over all this , with those lugs perhaps SETI could use him listening in for Alien intelligence.
- Jun 29, 2013
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Trumps combover is still monumental and even you must admit that ?!
dogwatch
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- Thread starter
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Sure.
Just like ScoMo is going to stand down when this is all over for saying everyone should go to the footy - we're not going to start locking down until after I've seen the Sharks play this weekend. Clearly Australia's 100+ deaths are partly on him.
Along with Gladys (49 deaths in NSW, only 22 in Vic), Brad (Ruby Princess) Hazzard, Peter (Ruby Princess) Dutton and so on. Those deaths are partly on them.
The fact is all our leaders make errors and could always have done certain things better. Nonetheless they've individually and collectively been streets better than the likes of Trump, Bojo, Bolsonaro and whoever the twerp is running things in Sweden. The numbers of bereaved families in those places are higher by many orders of magnitude.
What I find interesting is that Andrews has reversed the orthodoxy of a quarter of a century of politics that says you NEVER EVER admit the buck stops with you. Instead, you deflect, point fingers, refuse to give direct answers to questions, lie, dissemble, blame your predecessor, blame the other party, blame your bureaucracy, blame fake news or blame just about anything that comes into your head. If all else fails you simply sit tight and wait until it all blows over and the media and the public get bored and move onto something else. But you never never NEVER accept the blame. You certainly NEVER resign when you've breached accepted minimum standards.
The world of politics is far more cynical and ruthless than it was in the late 20th century before Howard became PM. It might be a calculated risk on Andrews' part but I reckon that gesture of integrity will bounce back on him.
For the sake of the principled conduct of politics in this country I hope not.
- Jun 29, 2013
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did u miss him blame all Victorian’s for this second wave which is all on his decisions?
yes he has said the buck stops with him several time’s but when he has the chance to admit error he deflected to the public and I won’t cop that.
maybe certain groups of the public that have ignored from day one but bit everyone
- Sep 27, 2005
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All of them apparently even the ones that were diagnosed before the rally...
As for the two most recent COVID deaths being ‘on’ Andrews, if that was the case old mate Hazzard from NSW has all of the Ruby Princess and Newmarch House deaths (around 50 of Australia’s 100 deaths) would have fallen on his swords, but last time I checked he was up there on his high horse lecturing us filthy Victorians and telling us to keep out. The irony.
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Comrade Dan's training in Manchuria has served him well. The big hint was signing up Victoria to the The Belt and Road Initiative. Here is a film about Andrews, with Lawrence Harvey taking his role.
Some footage of his time in China
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Australia coronavirus: almost two dozen healthcare workers and patients diagnosed with Covid-19
Four patients and a staff member at Brunswick private hospital in Melbourne among new caseswww.theguardian.com
More COVID-19 outbreaks detected in hospitals as ER chief isolates
Coronavirus outbreaks have spread through two more emergency departments at major Melbourne hospitals, causing more than 50 frontline healthcare workers to be sidelined after potential exposure to the virus.
More COVID-19 outbreaks detected in hospitals as ER chief isolates
Coronavirus outbreaks have spread through two more emergency departments at Melbourne hospitals, causing more than 50 frontline healthcare workers to be sidelined.
- Sep 7, 2015
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I advocated for an elimination strategy.
Many here argued for a suppression strategy. Your strategy involved future periodic lockdowns.... if case numbers increased too quickly. Case numbers increased, we entered a new lockdown.
IF you have now changed your mind and want elimination and not suppression, then say so.
I find that many who advocated suppression and the economy being reopened quickly, are now putting the boot in. Many complained when Dan wanted to do more testing and delayed reopening. More testing has found lots more virus. Good that he tested more, we could have been in a bigger world of hurt otherwise. Testing found mistakes that he and others made. Good. Let’s hope that they have learnt and get it right this time.
IF you want to continue to advocate suppression, then stick the boot into ALL the political leaders who have stuffed up. There is a long long list....
My business can’t start until there is a widely used vaccine OR the virus is virtually eliminated. To say I am not hugely disappointed in many people right now is a massive understatement. My business is on hold. Dimma & others can be pissed all they like but he got to open and get some revenue. Not everyone is so f$&kn lucky.
Many here argued for a suppression strategy. Your strategy involved future periodic lockdowns.... if case numbers increased too quickly. Case numbers increased, we entered a new lockdown.
IF you have now changed your mind and want elimination and not suppression, then say so.
I find that many who advocated suppression and the economy being reopened quickly, are now putting the boot in. Many complained when Dan wanted to do more testing and delayed reopening. More testing has found lots more virus. Good that he tested more, we could have been in a bigger world of hurt otherwise. Testing found mistakes that he and others made. Good. Let’s hope that they have learnt and get it right this time.
IF you want to continue to advocate suppression, then stick the boot into ALL the political leaders who have stuffed up. There is a long long list....
My business can’t start until there is a widely used vaccine OR the virus is virtually eliminated. To say I am not hugely disappointed in many people right now is a massive understatement. My business is on hold. Dimma & others can be pissed all they like but he got to open and get some revenue. Not everyone is so f$&kn lucky.
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- Dec 3, 2015
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I missed him blaming all Victorians. These are flagged as direct quotes (in HeraldSun and DailyMail articles):
The Premier on Tuesday claimed 'some Victorians' had been 'pretending' that the deadly pandemic was over and suggested many residents were disobeying social distancing rules.
'Each of us know someone who has not been following the rules as well as they should have,' he said, in remarks he is standing by.
I agree 'many' was not a great choice of word, but in the same article, he is quoted directly from an interview on ABC News Breakfast:
He said: 'I can't change what's gone on there, we got an independent process to get to the bottom of that.
'I apologise for the position that we find ourselves in.
'I'm accountable as the leader of our state, the key point here is - I can't be making popular and easy calls,
'I've got to make the tough calls that will bring this under fundamental control.'
I am neither a Liberal nor Labor supporter, but I don't see any hanging offence in those remarks, that would lead to a resignation. Conveniently, the Liberals home page with O'Brien's hysterical screeching contains no actual quotes, and takes Andrews' widely quoted words out of context.
I don't see Berejiklian or anyone in NSW or Federal govts taking any responsibility for the Ruby Princess, which was one of the triggers at the start. She had a damning interview with Lisa Wilkinson a while back where she was profiled sympathetically, then asked point blank about the Ruby Princess - her pause whilst she grasped for words to side-step the question was very illuminating. If Andrews should resign, then by the same measure, Morrison, Berejiklian, Dutton and many others should immediately follow him if the same standards are applied.
- Dec 3, 2015
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To add to my previous post, I have been pleasantly surprised by the performances of many of our leaders in this crisis, across the political spectrum and levels of government. I am by default cynical of all politicians, but they have actually worked co-operatively and provided leadership. Of course they are not perfect, but the positive has far outweighed the negative. The national cabinet, a conservative prime minister adapting welfare to save lives and businesses - interesting times. The ongoing negative seems to be the sniping between premiers/states, if anything the PM has stayed above all that and largely stayed out of partisan politicising. Oppositions of all levels and flavours are almost irrelevant in a crisis like this, not ideal, but certainly takes some of the usual mindless opposition for opposition's sake out of the equation as well.
So, at risk of bucking the trend again, I am curious to get people's thoughts.
Right now, Victoria is sitting at 3098 cases with 22 deaths - a mortality rate of 0.71%.
Looking back at figures from the 2017 (most recent I could find) flu season (https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs...~2017~Main Features~Deaths due to influenza~5), Victoria finished with 48,120 cases with 277 deaths - a mortality rate of 0.58%.
I am aware the transmission rate is higher with Covid, compared with flu but the mortality rate is not too indifferent from one of the worse flu seasons in recent history.
Given there is now a large enough sample size to demonstrate the virus is clearly not as deadly as first thought, and modelling showing suicides are expected to increase by between 25-50% in the next five years, due to lockdowns and the associated economic and mental health stress, will there be a point where we take some short term pain to ensure the longer term effects don't end up bigger than what we are experiencing now?
Right now, Victoria is sitting at 3098 cases with 22 deaths - a mortality rate of 0.71%.
Looking back at figures from the 2017 (most recent I could find) flu season (https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs...~2017~Main Features~Deaths due to influenza~5), Victoria finished with 48,120 cases with 277 deaths - a mortality rate of 0.58%.
I am aware the transmission rate is higher with Covid, compared with flu but the mortality rate is not too indifferent from one of the worse flu seasons in recent history.
Given there is now a large enough sample size to demonstrate the virus is clearly not as deadly as first thought, and modelling showing suicides are expected to increase by between 25-50% in the next five years, due to lockdowns and the associated economic and mental health stress, will there be a point where we take some short term pain to ensure the longer term effects don't end up bigger than what we are experiencing now?
- Apr 23, 2013
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Very good balanced post.
I have no real opinion on Andrews good or bad , but on the whole he seems to have done a reasonable job.
Haters ( or barrackers ) are always going to hate. Some just sit by their keyboard just waiting for something to go wrong !
Who would like to be in charge right now ?
Can someone give me the abbreviated version of exactly what he has done that is so bad he needs to resign ?
Employing a private security company seems to be the only big mistake he has made , which in my opinion was a big mistake --- am I correct ?
- Apr 23, 2013
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So what has happened in the US ( and elsewhere ) dosn't concern you ?
You’re far too objective and thoughtful for this discussion - move along now
Ask yourself a simple question:
Was the last time I/you had flu recorded in the government database?
Many cases of the flu aren’t reported or recorded.... making the 48,120 case number just a number.
- Dec 3, 2015
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To the first bolded part - if looking at Australia in isolation perhaps. Slightly different outcome worldwide. I think we are lucky that management here has been amongst the best in the worldwide, coupled with a robust health system.
In regards to the second - we have a significant 'second wave' happening, with outcomes still to come. Again, this is completely different if considering global sample size.
Sure, but there are a few layers to that when comparing Victoria to US (and elsewhere). There have been so many bungles in the US that makes Andrews' hotel quarantine shenanigans look like child's play, contributing to the inflated tally there. NY gov sending confirmed positive cases back into nursing homes is one of the biggest calamities in the world.
Secondly, it has been confirmed by many that there are different strains, so I am just using the numbers available (for flu and Covid) to put together a picture and based on the current numbers, it seems evident that the strain here is not as deadly as other parts of the world.
Other issues:
He didn’t open the economy when the opposition wanted him to. Dan wanted to test more.
Government messaging to immigrant groups wasn’t as clear as messages in the media.
