Coronavirus/COVID-19

[D Mitchell]

No mention of autistic child until way after the initial quote made headlines. I am sure that IF it has been part of the initial then things would have blown up about it then.

It's what was in Thorpe's mind at the time. If the child was on her mind, she's as low as it gets. But even if it wasn't, it's still outrageous, this sort of thing should not be going on in Parliament. The Governor General should order a joint sitting of both Houses and all forced to watch youtube videos of how Jacob Rees-Mogg does it.

 

[LittleG]

It's what was in Thorpe's mind at the time . If the child was on her mind, she's as low as it gets. But even if it wasn't, it's still outrageous, this sort of thing should not be going on in Parliament. The Governor General should order a joint sitting of both Houses and all forced to watch youtube videos of how Jacob Rees-Mogg does it.

You are being the Thought Police? Seriously?!?!?

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

It's what was in Thorpe's mind at the time. If the child was on her mind, she's as low as it gets. But even if it wasn't, it's still outrageous, this sort of thing should not be going on in Parliament. The Governor General should order a joint sitting of both Houses and all forced to watch youtube videos of how Jacob Rees-Mogg does it.

That is genuinely how you see yourself isn’t it.

 

[D Mitchell]

You are being the Thought Police? Seriously?!?!?

Thought police ? Try common decency. You don't make a reference to a woman keeping her legs together, in Parliament makes it even worse. You especially don't if the intention is to jibe a mother over her child.

 

[LittleG]

Thought police ? Try common decency. You don't make a reference to a woman keeping her legs together, in Parliament makes it even worse. You especially don't if the intention is to jibe a mother over her child.

IF you read ALL Thorpe’s comments and not just cherry-picked that single sentence, you MAY* understand her mindset. Then this conversation is mute.

*MAY is the correct word here, as it requires open minded thought about Thorpe’s other comments. As Scragcity has previously pointed out the context of the comment, this discussion should have ended then….

 

[D Mitchell]

IF you read ALL Thorpe’s comments and not just cherry-picked that single sentence, you MAY* understand her mindset. Then this conversation..

I couldn't give 2 hoots about her "mindset" nothing excuses what she said. I hope you aren't trying to defend her, even she apologised, sincere or otherwise.

 

[Freshwater]

I mentioned that at the beginning of this conversation, that even the nasty Lydia Thorp had the decency to apologise. She knew that she had gone even further than her usually poor standards. How is it defended??

 

[LittleG]

I couldn't give 2 hoots about her "mindset" nothing excuses what she said. I hope you aren't trying to defend her, even she apologised, sincere or otherwise.

You have gone from saying her mindset was important, to realising that the context of the comment showed mindset and had to conduct a major retreat. Retreat noted.


What Thorpe said was bad and isn’t to be defended. BUT there have been much worse said. Much much worse.

 

[Dry Rot]

I have my Covid vax organised for next week, getting two shots plus a booster at the same time using this system

Italian man tries to dodge Covid vaccine wearing fake arm

Anti-vaxxer is facing charges of fraud after turning up for jab with silicone arm in Biella

www.theguardian.com

 

[LittleG]

I have my Covid vax organised for next week, getting two shots plus a booster at the same time using this system

Italian man tries to dodge Covid vaccine wearing fake arm

Anti-vaxxer is facing charges of fraud after turning up for jab with silicone arm in Biella

www.theguardian.com

You should bribe the doctors to give you a placebo, like people did in Greece.

 

[D Mitchell]

You have gone from saying her mindset was important, to realising that the context of the comment showed mindset and had to conduct a major retreat. Retreat noted.


What Thorpe said was bad and isn’t to be defended. BUT there have been much worse said. Much much worse.

An old mate of mine knew David Thorpe as a teenager. My mate played for the 4ths for a year, I think that's where they might have met (football content). According to my mate, Thorpe was lippy on the ground. Do you think she might be related to David Thorpe ?

 

[D Mitchell]

Yeah don’t mind a bit of U2 now and end.

Odd, I saw you as more a Mary Black man.

 

[Freshwater]

Ultimately what Lydia Thorpe says is just a reflection of her type of inner city politics from the Twitter generation where people are as rude as you could ever read. But what Samantha Ratman DID in voting for the pandemic bill was worse. Name calling might show an inner character flaw but it doesn’t effect normal people the way bad laws and powers do.

 

[Home Alone]

IAnd any that promise no more lockdowns will get my vote.

For me, that is the most irresponsible policy ever. This is not about covid, but who knows what tomorrow may bring.

The ability to perform such actions, with what ever checks and balances are appropriate need to be available.

 

[ScragCity]

Posting this here for my friends LittleG , dogwatch , BrisDog et al.

I watch a lot of podcasts and this one I found to be exceptionally good. Relevant to the earlier discussions of authoritarianism.

 

[Contador]

I'm mostly opposed to the vaccine mandates but seeing how much they rile up right wingers almost has me changing my mind. Great entertainment after a tough couple of years.

 

[LittleG]

I'm mostly opposed to the vaccine mandates but seeing how much they rile up right wingers almost has me changing my mind. Great entertainment after a tough couple of years.

Same. The mandates are sh!t, except for in Healthcare, Police, Fire & Army.


My preferred choices would be:
1. The right to sue an unvaccinated person who chooses to enter my business place (when I get one), without my written consent. I don’t want my future employees to get Covid.
2. The right to discriminate when hiring based on vaccine status.
3. The right to fire an employee who isn’t vaccinated based on their vaccination status.

 

[King Harold]

Thought police ? Try common decency. You don't make a reference to a woman keeping her legs together, in Parliament makes it even worse. You especially don't if the intention is to jibe a mother over her child.

Your outraged by common decency , and yet a Trump fan ,
Now that is hilarious

 

[wayniac]

The employment conditions of public servants afford them certain rights when their employer wishes to dismiss them - they cannot be summarily dismissed with no justification. The show-cause process gives them the right to show cause why they shouldn't be dismissed. Many, many private-sector employment agreements, employment contracts and EBA's have exactly the same protections. It's not a public sector thing - it's an ongoing employment thing. Contractors in some cases might have similar engagement conditions...the fact they don't is not because public servants get favourable treatment. It's because their respective employers are abiding by their contractual and employer obligations according to a legally binding process that all parties have agreed. Just the same as for contractors - both parties have legal rights and obligations.

I've worked for more of my career in the private sector than I have in the public sector and I can tell you that, in my experience, private-sector employees and contractors are paid more, often significantly more, than are public servants for equivalent work. The trade-off is that public servants enjoy more job security and a greater potential pool of positions and career opportunities without leaving their employer. They don't have a job for life or unconditional never-ending employment though...and that's what you are seeing playing out right now...the public servants having to show their employer that they will obey a lawful directive of the CHO or else they will be dismissed.

Say what you will about "useless people" that are employed as public servants (and there are plenty of very poor private sector employees too) that is entirely missing the point of the protests. There are not people marching and protesting demanding that "useless people" be sacked from the public service. You are hijacking what the protests are primarily about and trying to suggest that it is really about public servants.

You ask me whether I or family members are public servants. Like the majority of people in this country, I answer yes - I or family members of mine are public servants. Somehow you being a contractor does not invalidate your argument but someone in my family being a public servant invalidates my argument? Wow.

Perhaps you should look to change your employment situation if you can, rather than be bitter towards the public servants that help to keep this country running. Our society wouldn't exist without the public service - all western democracies have a public service to do those things that the private sector can't, won't or shouldn't do.

Finally...I believe that the protests were largely about people being sick of the government exercising a lot of control over their lives and some people are questioning whether that level of control has been excessive. I sympathise to some extent, as my wife lost her employment because of the pandemic and the government responses to it. The pandemic has cost us tens of thousands of dollars each of the past two years. I'm not taking my frustration out by vilifying others who have been more fortunate though...and in my opinion, neither should you.

Long rambling response which is quite incorrect.

A simple google search reveals:

Full-time adult weekly cash earnings for Victorian public sector workers was $2083 in November 2020, $333 a week higher than the state's private sector workers. The state's public servants earn more than $4800 a year above their counterparts in NSW, which has a higher cost of living due to higher property prices.31 May 2021

FYI I retired in August and worked for almost 12 years in the ADF. Canberra is not known as EL1 city for nothing.

Please don't quote anecdotal outliers. An average is an average. I asked for numbers, you couldn't or wouldn't give them.

 

[wayniac]

UK too.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/EDAA/production/_121224806_privatepublic_pay_1021-nc.png

 

[Home Alone]

Long rambling response which is quite incorrect.

A simple google search reveals:

Full-time adult weekly cash earnings for Victorian public sector workers was $2083 in November 2020, $333 a week higher than the state's private sector workers. The state's public servants earn more than $4800 a year above their counterparts in NSW, which has a higher cost of living due to higher property prices.31 May 2021

FYI I retired in August and worked for almost 12 years in the ADF. Canberra is not known as EL1 city for nothing.

Please don't quote anecdotal outliers. An average is an average. I asked for numbers, you couldn't or wouldn't give them.

I thought Mutt was succinct and on topic.

I also think that your post brought in multiple non related data in a scatter gun defence.

Is public sector a true represens of the private sector?
Are we comparing wages for comparable jobs or .....

Is it possible we could have a weekly or daily debate on a specific topic? And thenput itto bed.

We cannot influence government here, nor can we influence our political views.

 

[wayniac]

I thought Mutt was succinct and on topic.

I also think that your post brought in multiple non related data in a scatter gun defence.

Is public sector a true represens of the private sector?
Are we comparing wages for comparable jobs or .....

Is it possible we could have a weekly or daily debate on a specific topic? And thenput itto bed.

We cannot influence government here, nor can we influence our political views.

I give up. The circle jerk wins.

 

[LittleG]

Good article on Omicron:

'We're very, very concerned': The surprising Australian theory about Omicron

'We're very, very concerned': Australian researchers find new evidence on the origins of Omicron

As the world rushes to understand how Omicron will impact global control of COVID-19, new research suggests the virus may be changing shape again.

www.abc.net.au

Viruses have a tendency to become more infectious and less lethal. This is due to their goal of survival rather than by killing all their potential hosts. Noticing that hospitalisation rates aren’t going up quickly in South Africa where there infections have increased 5-6 times.

 

[Freshwater]

What we have seen is that modelling and predictions have been way off. Two different institutions will end up with completely different models, both can’t be correct and neither is, nearly always. So the media comes on strong with the fear and the politicians just come afterwards and play on the fear. How about we try a different approach and allow people to judge their own risk and live their own lives accordingly?

 

[Mutt]

Long rambling response which is quite incorrect.

A simple google search reveals:

Full-time adult weekly cash earnings for Victorian public sector workers was $2083 in November 2020, $333 a week higher than the state's private sector workers. The state's public servants earn more than $4800 a year above their counterparts in NSW, which has a higher cost of living due to higher property prices.31 May 2021

FYI I retired in August and worked for almost 12 years in the ADF. Canberra is not known as EL1 city for nothing.

Please don't quote anecdotal outliers. An average is an average. I asked for numbers, you couldn't or wouldn't give them.

I said that public sector employees are often paid less for equivalent work. That most public sector jobs are white-collar or require specialist qualifications may naturally mean that the AVERAGE public sector employee earns more than the average private-sector employee. A great many very high-income earners in the private sector are also not in fact employees - further skewing the data. You need to compare like for like if you are going to argue that point. And I'd suggest that you don't because your whole premise is bizarre and totally off topic.