Coronavirus/COVID-19

[Optimistic Dog]

I take everyone's point on the death rate. My comparison with USA was more to say I do not understand our case rates compared with a country that has performed so poorly in trying to control it. Victoria has thrown everything at this virus lockdowns, curfews, masks and all sorts of restrictions and with all our measures we get 2,232 today. I know from your replies you think I was again having a go at Dan but it was a frustration on how to we get such high numbers with all our measures. Is it just people not doing the right thing?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Beware! She may slam the borders shut again if she stubs her big toe!

They are actually saying that when the border opens on 17 December they will be letting in covid and people only have 10 days left to get the first jab. As far as I can make out, people coming in still have to be double vaxed and test negative and can home quarantine. Not completely sure how it will all work.

 

[ScragCity]

I take everyone's point on the death rate. My comparison with USA was more to say I do not understand our case rates compared with a country that has performed so poorly in trying to control it. Victoria has thrown everything at this virus lockdowns, curfews, masks and all sorts of restrictions and with all our measures we get 2,232 today. I know from your replies you think I was again having a go at Dan but it was a frustration on how to we get such high numbers with all our measures. Is it just people not doing the right thing?

To be honest I don't know anyone who has still been following restrictions this past couple of months. Who cares about case numbers anyway? Vaccinations and hospitalisations are all that matters.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

To be honest I don't know anyone who has still been following restrictions this past couple of months. Who cares about case numbers anyway? Vaccinations and hospitalisations are all that matters.

Well I guess that explains the case numbers. I have been following them and I am concerned about the number of cases. I have a 14 month old grand daughter who cannot get vaccinated. The narrative on case numbers changed in Victoria when we lost control of them and gave up on elimination.

 

[Fossie 32]

They are letting footy players have until May to be fully vaccinated is that right?

 

[Draft Pick]

They are letting footy players have until May to be fully vaccinated is that right?

No. The latest will be Feb for Qld, SA, and WA players.

NO JAB, NO PLAY: AFL releases vaccination policy

All players and staff will need to be vaccinated to play under the AFL's new COVID-19 vaccination policy

www.afl.com.au

 

[Fossie 32]

No. The latest will be Feb for Qld, SA, and WA players.

NO JAB, NO PLAY: AFL releases vaccination policy

All players and staff will need to be vaccinated to play under the AFL's new COVID-19 vaccination policy

www.afl.com.au

Thanks - so same as everyone in Vic

 

[Arkangel]

The current US case numbers are based on a positive test rate of about 9% (i.e., for every 11 people who have been tested of late, 1 has the virus). In Australia, the rate is closer to 1% (i.e., for every 100 tested, 1 has the virus). This suggests to me that the case numbers in Australia, while inevitably an underestimate, are a much better reflection of reality than those in the U.S. In other words, they have a lot more virus going around than we do.

 

[ScragCity]

Well I guess that explains the case numbers. I have been following them and I am concerned about the number of cases. I have a 14 month old grand daughter who cannot get vaccinated. The narrative on case numbers changed in Victoria when we lost control of them and gave up on elimination.

Yeah I have a 17-month-old son who goes to daycare. It seems almost inevitable that he'll get the virus at some point. But there's nothing I can do about it so I'm not going to waste energy worrying. We stopped looking at the case numbers a while ago because it doesn't seem productive anymore.

 

[Dogs 13]

Well, sort of

 

[Dogs 13]

 

[Dogs Rule]

How did we get here some disturbing stats.

Victoria's Pop 6.7 million Cases 2,232 today 70% double vaxed and locked down
USA Pop 333 million 50 times Victoria Cases 89,862 today average double vaxed approx. 60% most states have not been in lock down for a long time

Victoria's 2,232 cases x 50 = 111,600 equivalent cases for the same population as the USA with lockdowns and a higher vaccination rate.

Something is horrible wrong here how can we have more lockdown days than anywhere in the world, a 70% vax rate and now be worst off than the USA on comparative terms just do not understand.

Simple. People who are unvaccinated thinking they can do as they please, go around maskless, visit family and friends and act like everything is normal.

This is why I don't care if venues restrict unvaccinated people for months. The majority have done the right thing, vaccines work and if people are so ignorant they still refuse (medically exempt excepted) then bugger them. This is bigger than the individual.

 

[synchrodogcal]

yep bugger them indeed

i don't mind this idea

Victoria AMA says Covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers should opt out of public health system and ‘let nature run its course’

Hospital system is already under pressure and will get worse as restrictions lift, state AMA president says

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bald]

yep bugger them indeed

i don't mind this idea

Victoria AMA says Covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers should opt out of public health system and ‘let nature run its course’

Hospital system is already under pressure and will get worse as restrictions lift, state AMA president says

www.theguardian.com

I'm against stripping them of their medicare entirely, but any complications that come up from them getting covid should have them pushed to the back of the triage line.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

yep bugger them indeed

i don't mind this idea

Victoria AMA says Covid-deniers and anti-vaxxers should opt out of public health system and ‘let nature run its course’

Hospital system is already under pressure and will get worse as restrictions lift, state AMA president says

www.theguardian.com

He’s had plenty of criticism from others in the medical community for that argument. I agree with him though.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Unvaccinated bloke went to Melbourne from Queensland, came back bringing the virus, symptomatic. Two weeks later, when he got sicker, he turned up at an ER and is now on a ventilator, unable to speak. Can't tell CTs where he's been "forgotten". Never checked in with QR since September. Now under investigation as to how he got back into Qld. I think there must be a lot more they'd like to find out about this dude, and his contacts in Melbourne, and what he was doing there.

‘Extremely sick’: Infected man ‘deteriorated’

The unvaccinated Gold Coast man who contracted Covid-19 has deteriorated and he may need to be placed in intensive care, according to Queensland’s top doctor.

www.news.com.au

 

[Virgin Dog]

People who refuse the vaccine should be excluded from the public health system as soon as they're diagnosed with Covid

 

[footscray1973]

Had this argument with some of my kids last night - they're saying you can't just exclude people from the public health system. I said your immediate family members and family friends care for people every day in the public health system, why should they put themselves and their family and friends at risk?

As I've posted previously, I don't have an issue with people choosing not to be vaccinated.

But the choice comes with consequences, lots of them.

 

[Bald]

People who refuse the vaccine should be excluded from the public health system as soon as they're diagnosed with Covid

As soon as they're either diagnosed or refuse a test.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Had this argument with some of my kids last night - they're saying you can't just exclude people from the public health system. I said your immediate family members and family friends care for people every day in the public health system, why should they put themselves and their family and friends at risk?

As I've posted previously, I don't have an issue with people choosing not to be vaccinated.

But the choice comes with consequences, lots of them.

It disgusts me knowing resources are wasted on anti-vaxxers, potentially putting people with pneumonia, cancer, etc. at greater risk.

Or even just the fact my mother in law had her knee recon surgery delayed due to pressure on the hospital system. So quality of life of a retiree is affected because she was stuck dealing with the pain and lack of mobility. Thankfully it's done now, but it happened months later than it should have originally

 

[footscray1973]

Unvaccinated bloke went to Melbourne from Queensland, came back bringing the virus, symptomatic. Two weeks later, when he got sicker, he turned up at an ER and is now on a ventilator, unable to speak. Can't tell CTs where he's been "forgotten". Never checked in with QR since September. Now under investigation as to how he got back into Qld. I think there must be a lot more they'd like to find out about this dude, and his contacts in Melbourne, and what he was doing there.

‘Extremely sick’: Infected man ‘deteriorated’

The unvaccinated Gold Coast man who contracted Covid-19 has deteriorated and he may need to be placed in intensive care, according to Queensland’s top doctor.

www.news.com.au

"Hey you, seems you're having trouble remembering where you've been. Vic and Qld health authorities are keen to help you help them. So, to assist you, we're just going to turn off your ventilator to see if that helps trigger your memory, ok?"

 

[dogwatch]

Had this argument with some of my kids last night - they're saying you can't just exclude people from the public health system. I said your immediate family members and family friends care for people every day in the public health system, why should they put themselves and their family and friends at risk?

As I've posted previously, I don't have an issue with people choosing not to be vaccinated.

But the choice comes with consequences, lots of them.

I'm with your kids on this.

The public health system is a safety net for everyone, even for those who don't easily fit into the society we would like to have - people such as the drug addicts, the murderers, the homeless, the alcoholics, the anti-vaxxers, the embezzlers, the Essendon supporters, the AFL executives ...

If you start excluding people from care based on some values they hold or poor choices they have made along the way, where do you stop? Do you refuse to treat a kid who got drunk and fell off his balcony? Or the rock climber who fell and broke his back despite knowing the risks? Do you not treat the meth addict who was brought into casualty in a bloody mess? It's a quick slippery slope to the sort of wealth-based privilege system of the United States where there is a significant portion of society that has entrenched disadvantaged and disaffection. We have seen where that can lead.

The qualities of mercy, love and community say we have to better than that. Yes there should be consequences but they don't have to be exclusion from life-saving care.

 

[footscray1973]

I'm with your kids on this.

The public health system is a safety net for everyone, even for those who don't easily fit into the society we would like to have - people such as the drug addicts, the murderers, the homeless, the alcoholics, the anti-vaxxers, the embezzlers, the Essendon supporters, the AFL executives ...

If you start excluding people from care based on some values they hold or poor choices they have made along the way, where do you stop? Do you refuse to treat a kid who got drunk and fell off his balcony? Or the rock climber who fell and broke his back despite knowing the risks? Do you not treat the meth addict who was brought into casualty in a bloody mess? It's a quick slippery slope to the sort of wealth-based privilege system of the United States where there is a significant portion of society that has entrenched disadvantaged and disaffection. We have seen where that can lead.

The qualities of mercy, love and community say we have to better than that. Yes there should be consequences but they don't have to be exclusion from life-saving care.

I take your point. And yes, I'm not seriously advocating that approach - because it would impact people beyond the anti-vaxxers.

But in all the examples you've listed, is there an intent to put health professionals at risk? I realise they may be putting others apart from themselves at risk, but none of those examples have the potential to impact a wide section of a community beyond those in their immediate vicinity or who treat them in a health care setting. An unvaccinated (of the COVID variety) person has the potential to spread a highly contagious disease, and endanger vulnerable members of society who themselves may not be able to be vaccinated. (The only comparable examples I think you've clearly identified are AFL executives, but that's a separate discussion!)

 

[Sharkey66]

I take your point. And yes, I'm not seriously advocating that approach - because it would impact people beyond the anti-vaxxers.

But in all the examples you've listed, is there an intent to put health professionals at risk? I realise they may be putting others apart from themselves at risk, but none of those examples have the potential to impact a wide section of a community beyond those in their immediate vicinity or who treat them in a health care setting. An unvaccinated (of the COVID variety) person has the potential to spread a highly contagious disease, and endanger vulnerable members of society who themselves may not be able to be vaccinated. (The only comparable examples I think you've clearly identified are AFL executives, but that's a separate discussion!)

Am I missing something here?
A fully vaccinated person can still catch covid, still transmit the virus and still infect someone else. Being vaccinated just mitigates the effects of the virus if you are unlucky enough to catch it. Or have I got this completely wrong.

 

[dogwatch]

Am I missing something here?
A fully vaccinated person can still catch covid, still transmit the virus and still infect someone else. Being vaccinated just mitigates the effects of the virus if you are unlucky enough to catch it. Or have I got this completely wrong.

You’re also probably less likely to catch it in the first place if fully vaccinated.

That’s until the protection wears off in 6-12 months time…