Costly Recruiting Under Fanta....

[Drummond]

Knights is a very good player, has the potential to be elite, and what's more he was taken with PICK 56!!!!

Give me a break.

 

[Drummond]

What is your point exactly?

I am wondering the same thing.

I think they got confused whilst writing, because I certainly got confused reading it.

 

[Dolemite]

The lack of quality 1st rounders has cost us at least 1 premiership in the past few years and crap team at the moment.
i.e Meesen/Angwin/Sellar/Reilly etc

The overall lack of quality recruited the last few years under Fanta has made the crows into an average at best team.

Some may say its development issues as opposed to recruiting.
But quality will always rise to the top. VanBerlo/Douglas/Knights/Reilly etc are not quality.

Feel sorry for Craigy, think he is getting unfair criticism. He mostly is working with 'garbage quality' players, thanks to the incompetent recruiting under Fanta's regime.

Tell me who the crows could have picked then to make them a quality outfit. I think you will find it difficult. Sure some recruiting hasn't been great, but name a club that gets it right all the time. What about praise for the excellent picks down the order? If you were a Richmond supporter then maybe I would agree with you.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Why are so many people hung up about the draft number/position of a player? Then subsequently grade a club's success purely at the hit rate of 1st rounders, etc.

Would peoples opinions differ if our drafts under Fantasia in this decade went in this order:

2006
14. Kurt Tippett
32. David Mackay
48. James Sellar
64. Nick Gill
78. Bryce Campbell

2005
16. Bernie Vince
17. Jason Porplyzia
32. Richard Douglas
48. Darren Pfeiffer
Rookie List
Alan Obst

2004
8. Nathan Van Berlo
24. Ivan Maric
28. Chris Knights
40. John Meesen
56. Chad Gibson

2003
14. Fergus Watts
31. Ben Hudson
58. Josh Krueger

2002
32. Nathan Bock
56. Ben Rutten
68. Martin Mattner
Rookie Elevations
Luke Jericho
Robert Shirley
James Begley

2001
12. Trent Hentschel
44. Brent Reilly

Don't let the draft number of player taken fool you!! Cause in the end that's all it is...a number!! Once a player is drafted they are all the same, an equal. What they become is up to their ability, good luck and a lot of hard work.

The draft is a selection of potential. My advice, look at the group of players not their number taken. Browsing the list of players per year in Fanta's time during this decade I am quite pleased.

You know this was going to be my exact post and you are spot on. The truth is we have lot of people on this board that love to bitch and moan, look at the glass half-empty and pass it of as being realists . You know the types I am talking about, those that even if they won a lotto jackpot thier reaction would be "FFS now I have to pay more in taxes!"

Some things never change. Every club has **** ups and we went through this a couple of years ago and it turned out that other than Geelong, the recruiting record of Fantasia and co was in the top half a dozen in the league. But hey, we pick up a gun in Jason Porplyzia, a very good young player in Vince, a solid young player in Douglas and a bust in Pfeiffer (more attitude than talent) and all of a sudden Fantasia ****ed up because he picked Douglas with a first rounder. All of those players (other than Pfeiffer) will play at least 100 AFL games in their career. Thats a pretty good strikerate compared to the rest of the peers.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I doubt very much that after 100 games the problem is that Neil Craig hasn't figured out where to play him.

Sturt.


^^^ Fantassia in the top echelon - ha, ha brilliant.

 

[twentydollarnote]

Sturt.


^^^ Fantassia in the top echelon - ha, ha brilliant.

go through each of his drafts and show us a better player hes missed.

 

[RangaInTeal]

What is your point exactly?

Umm, I started the post thinking Crows midfield is/was terrible, but half way through the post when I cmpared it to Geelong, Hawthorn and Western Bulldogs, they have the same sort of make up, two stars and the rest honest hard working blue collar midfielders, my opinion changed

 

[Ok Gary!!]

I think cheap shots at the recruiter just isn't cricket.

Unless you are the sole possessor of a crystal ball or a Delorian from Back to the future (great movie!) I think its near on impossible to recruit a potential all star. A lot of todays legends were taken far from the 1st round, and yes you can piss whine and fart about how we should have picked them, but the fact is hindsight is a wonderful thing and looking back and blaming Fantasia just isn't going to solve anything.

The McGregor/Pavlich debacle is a prime example of this. Most would say I can't believe we chose McGregor over Pavlich, but the fact of the matter is, at the time Mcgregor was the superior alternative, he held a regular spot in the SANFL league side, he was a product of the AIS institute, and he scored much better in the draft camp. Pavlich didn't hold a regular spot in the SANFL and was virtually unheard of, Mcgregor at the time had a far better resume compared to Pavlich, and look what happened, Mcgregor was average at best and Pavlich is a superstar, but you can't blame anyone for those types of scenarios, they just happen, but every once in a while, we can pick up a hum dinga like Goodwin, Edwards, McCleod, Dangerfield, Otten and Walker.

We need to show a little faith in our Club that they are doing the best job they can do. Fremantle are the only team that should sack their recruiters, I urge you all to get a hand on an AFL Almanac and look at all the quality cattle that Freo have given away its ****ing hilarious!

 

[StillCrowing]

Graham Johncock at Pick 67 in 2000 is another great recruit I don't think anyone has mentioned.

People need to be a little realistic though. There's only 1-5 elite players in every squad, but there seems to be an expectation that every player should be amazing. It's just not going to happen. So it baffles me that people always expect a huge amount from some players. Just because a player will never be in the elite category, doesn't mean he isn't capable of being great for the club.

 

[ruscy002]

Umm, I started the post thinking Crows midfield is/was terrible, but half way through the post when I cmpared it to Geelong, Hawthorn and Western Bulldogs, they have the same sort of make up, two stars and the rest honest hard working blue collar midfielders, my opinion changed

Ok...I actually thought there was an ounce of modesty there (hence your last line re "highlights") but the change of opinion bit came across as more sarcastic than anything. Ultimately it was a very confusing post, but I'll pay it.

FWIW, I think that Geelong in particular have more than a couple of stars...Ablett, Bartell, Corey and Chapman all fit the bill, then you've got Stokes and Steve Johnson who run through the middle at times too. I rate Vince, Dangerfield, MacKay and Otten quite highly as a young quartet, but I don't know if, even when mature, they'll compare to Geelong's best four. Maybe they're a slightly classier version of Sydney's premiership midfield, which I can live with but I'd certainly like a Judd/Ablett in there...Dangerfield could be the man but time will tell.

On your boys...would trade for Gray (awesome pick up) or Hartlett (best midfielder in potentially the best ever draft, what you expect for a top 5 DP) in a heartbeat. Might just be an outsider thing, but I think the problem with Rodan/Burgoyne/Pearce is the gap between their best and worst days. At their best, they're all class and as damaging as anyone in the league, but on the bad days you'd like to forget that they're on your list. Guess that's what you meant by the "highlights" comment.

 

[johnnypanther]

I think cheap shots at the recruiter just isn't cricket.

Unless you are the sole possessor of a crystal ball or a Delorian from Back to the future (great movie!) I think its near on impossible to recruit a potential all star. A lot of todays legends were taken far from the 1st round, and yes you can piss whine and fart about how we should have picked them, but the fact is hindsight is a wonderful thing and looking back and blaming Fantasia just isn't going to solve anything.

The McGregor/Pavlich debacle is a prime example of this. Most would say I can't believe we chose McGregor over Pavlich, but the fact of the matter is, at the time Mcgregor was the superior alternative, he held a regular spot in the SANFL league side, he was a product of the AIS institute, and he scored much better in the draft camp. Pavlich didn't hold a regular spot in the SANFL and was virtually unheard of, Mcgregor at the time had a far better resume compared to Pavlich, and look what happened, Mcgregor was average at best and Pavlich is a superstar, but you can't blame anyone for those types of scenarios, they just happen, but every once in a while, we can pick up a hum dinga like Goodwin, Edwards, McCleod, Dangerfield, Otten and Walker.

We need to show a little faith in our Club that they are doing the best job they can do. Fremantle are the only team that should sack their recruiters, I urge you all to get a hand on an AFL Almanac and look at all the quality cattle that Freo have given away its ****ing hilarious!

Furthermore, re the McGregor/Pavlich selection, the Crows as premiers the previous year theoretically had the last pick for the 17yo when we chose McGregor lieu Pavlich - ie every other side before us didnt choose him either (eg Port chose Adam Morgan).

Nevertheless, it must have been a close call because i remember distinctly wanting Pavlich and Russell Ebert was a big gee for him too.
Anyway, c'est la vie.

Without being a full apologist for Fantasia, I would suggest also that his draft selections (or lack of) were influenced heavily by the Club's emphasis on finding a KPP & /or Ruckman, hence IMO a continued waste of high draft picks (whether traded away or used on the wrong player) in search of that golden egg.

 

[Vader]

Furthermore, re the McGregor/Pavlich selection, the Crows as premiers the previous year theoretically had the last pick for the 17yo when we chose McGregor lieu Pavlich - ie every other side before us didnt choose him either (eg Port chose Adam Morgan).

That's not true. Clubs were only able to draft 1x 17yo kid in that draft, but they could take him with any selection they liked. Some chose to take them in the first round, we waited until pick #75. We didn't have to wait until everyone else had used their 17yo selection before using our own.

That said, every team DID have the opportunity to draft Pavlich and passed him over the same as we did.

 

[ruscy002]

Secondly, where we've really missed out in terms of first round DP's is with key position players. This is symptomatic of a couple of things: A) they are more hit and miss than midfielders/small players because they develop later; and B) we went for more KPP's than midfielders with our early picks. Now I'm no expert, but generally speaking I believe that the best recruitment policy would be to take the best player on offer with early draft picks.

Considering the KPP late development thing, outside of the top 5 how often would young KPP's really be tangibly better than their midfield counterparts? We recruited on the basis of necessity because we had an awesome midfield and no key forwards (and in the case of Meesen, we were on a ruck recruiting drive). I don't know for sure, but I would suggest that recruiting for necessity is far more heavily influenced by the head coach than the actual chief recruitment officer.

Without being a full apologist for Fantasia, I would suggest also that his draft selections (or lack of) were influenced heavily by the Club's emphasis on finding a KPP & /or Ruckman, hence IMO a continued waste of high draft picks (whether traded away or used on the wrong player) in search of that golden egg.

That's a wrap

 

[johnnypanther]

That's not true. Clubs were only able to draft 1x 17yo kid in that draft, but they could take him with any selection they liked. Some chose to take them in the first round, we waited until pick #75. We didn't have to wait until everyone else had used their 17yo selection before using our own.

That said, every team DID have the opportunity to draft Pavlich and passed him over the same as we did.

Sorry i didnt mean to mislead - i understand what you say...... that's why i said "theoretically" we had the last choice obviously only if say the 1st 15 picks were used on the 17yo

 

[RangaInTeal]

Ok...I actually thought there was an ounce of modesty there (hence your last line re "highlights") but the change of opinion bit came across as more sarcastic than anything. Ultimately it was a very confusing post, but I'll pay it.

FWIW, I think that Geelong in particular have more than a couple of stars...Ablett, Bartell, Corey and Chapman all fit the bill, then you've got Stokes and Steve Johnson who run through the middle at times too. I rate Vince, Dangerfield, MacKay and Otten quite highly as a young quartet, but I don't know if, even when mature, they'll compare to Geelong's best four. Maybe they're a slightly classier version of Sydney's premiership midfield, which I can live with but I'd certainly like a Judd/Ablett in there...Dangerfield could be the man but time will tell.

On your boys...would trade for Gray (awesome pick up) or Hartlett (best midfielder in potentially the best ever draft, what you expect for a top 5 DP) in a heartbeat. Might just be an outsider thing, but I think the problem with Rodan/Burgoyne/Pearce is the gap between their best and worst days. At their best, they're all class and as damaging as anyone in the league, but on the bad days you'd like to forget that they're on your list. Guess that's what you meant by the "highlights" comment.

Thats where I was trying to head in regards to the "highlights comment.

I dont think Gelongs midfiled is filled with stars, bore blu chip midfielders than stars, Bartel & Corey in particular, Ablet , Chapman and Kelly break the lines, seem to win games off of there own back, where as Bartel and Corey will pick up 30 posessions and have a good game but wont realy influence the game a great deal within a quater, much like Kane Cornes. With Port, I think we are just to top heavy, fornt runners, highlight package specalists, Boak, Gray, Burgoyne, Pearce, Salopek, able to influence a quater or a half or even a match, but unable to pick up the 30 workman posessions the Bartel's and Boyd's pick up.

Also another example of the Adelaide Crows model, Western Bulldogs, Cooney and Griffen the stars, Cross, Boyd and Higgins that 30 posession blue collar match!