Science/Environment Could Australia become 3rd world?

[strung_out7]

I know many of the refugees personally, when i lived in Malmo, many have the will to learn as they had no access to education back in their country. But IMO 30% of them (i have no evidence to back it up, that's just from my observation) have no desire to integrate or learn the language despite been provided access to education and housing by the government and why not? government housing is tremendous in Sweden, you get a fully furnished apartment with utilities paid for, supermarket concession cards and 10 euros per day per adult and 6 euros per day per child. Not bad at all. This is why i said the cash and non-cash expense to the government is tremendous.

This is not just the case of "muslims" here, many people from south america or CIS countries who are asylum seekers in sweden are the same too.

Indeed. The whole system will eventually collapse there. I know a Swede who's parents were 70's immigrants from the wonderful utopia of communist Bloc countries. They worked straight away to make a living and resided is an outer suburb, where they and the one I know still reside. In the last 5 years, this area has become unrecognisable to them due to mass immigrants turning the area into a horrible mess. 2 train stops down the line, further out, is an Aldi. This use to be a 10 minute walk through park areas to reach. I walked this route with the female friend, the first time in many years for her, as it has become too dangerous to even contemplate.

What can you do? To leave this area is out of the question, as finding a decent inner suburb has become so overpriced for the average joe. Guess where the policy makers live?

 

[Total Power]

Indeed. The whole system will eventually collapse there. I know a Swede who's parents were 70's immigrants from the wonderful utopia of communist Bloc countries. They worked straight away to make a living and resided is an outer suburb, where they and the one I know still reside. In the last 5 years, this area has become unrecognisable to them due to mass immigrants turning the area into a horrible mess. 2 train stops down the line, further out, is an Aldi. This use to be a 10 minute walk through park areas to reach. I walked this route with the female friend, the first time in many years for her, as it has become too dangerous to even contemplate.

What can you do? To leave this area is out of the question, as finding a decent inner suburb has become so overpriced for the average joe. Guess where the policy makers live?

This last paragraph is fear mongering. Sweden is still extremely safe compared to Melbourne (hypothetically speaking). Where are there incidents happening, let me tell you Swedes have a very high standard of "safety" and definition of "safety" compared to other developed nations. I still feel a lot safer in Sweden than anywhere else, yes there are troubled suburbs, but just like anywhere else.

The rise of rape numbers in sweden is pretty insignificant too:

In 2016 there were 67 reported rapes per 100,000 people, 60 in 2015, 69 in 2014, 63 in 2013, 66 in 2012, 69 in 2011, 64 in 2010 and 2009, 59 in 2008 and 52 in 2007.

https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-capital-of-the-world

Anyway this is offtopic.

 

[strung_out7]

This last paragraph is fear mongering. Sweden is still extremely safe compared to Melbourne (hypothetically speaking). Where are there incidents happening, let me tell you Swedes have a very high standard of "safety" and definition of "safety" compared to other developed nations. I still feel a lot safer in Sweden than anywhere else, yes there are troubled suburbs, but just like anywhere else.

The rise of rape numbers in sweden is pretty insignificant too:

In 2016 there were 67 reported rapes per 100,000 people, 60 in 2015, 69 in 2014, 63 in 2013, 66 in 2012, 69 in 2011, 64 in 2010 and 2009, 59 in 2008 and 52 in 2007.

https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-capital-of-the-world

Anyway this is offtopic.

Indeed Swedes do. That is why the suburbs that contain people with Swedish values are clean, expensive to live in and safe. It's the suburbs that you also say do exist and are problematic and full of unintegrated people that are causing problems and a slide to an overall lower standard of living

 

[Total Power]

Indeed Swedes do. That is why the suburbs that contain people with Swedish values are clean, expensive to live in and safe. It's the suburbs that you also say do exist and are problematic and full of unintegrated people that are causing problems and a slide to an overall lower standard of living

There are many factors at play though, its not as simple as that. They specifically live in those suburbs cause they cant afford to live elsewhere. Secondly, Swedish people are not very fond of foreigners, not very friendly to them. They will automatically would want to live in places where rents are low and there are people like them around them. This is is the reason why suburbs like Rosengard are shitholes. There is no proper infrastructure there, cost of living is cheap, mostly government owned housing etc. Its obvious no one with a decent job would want to live in places like that. Would you live in Elizabeth in Adelaide if you had a half decent job? i know i wouldnt.

 

[medusala]

Left to the Liberal Party Australia could be come a dark ages village.

fanboi dribblers are about as tedious as the spammers on the comments pages everywhere

"Ive been working from home earning $50 an hour, you could too.."

 

[Malifice]

Does increased immigration, particularly from poorer countries, also increase the number of cases that your particular division of profession can feed off, hence keeping your pockets lined? I see why you act in this manner.

Because poor white people don't need legal aid?

 

[medusala]

On related topic now, the one major advantage we have in Australia, and I hope we never lose, is compulsory voting. It is our defence against tyranny, and our defence against extremism. We just won't let any one party get too carried away with a purely ideological agenda.

I nearly always refuse to vote (twice in 20 years). I will not have some low rent peanut like Plibersek dictating to me what my duty is. Filth like her and Penny Wong get thousands of votes only because of compulsion. Utterly repugnant state of affairs.

Civilisation has hardly ended in the UK due to lack of compulsory voting.

 

[medusala]

Because poor white people don't need legal aid?

Mal you want legal aid given to illegal immigrants.

 

[Malifice]

Mal you want legal aid given to illegal immigrants.

And also to rapists and child molesters.

What's your point?

 

[strung_out7]

Because poor white people don't need legal aid?

You have stated before that you provide legal aid for immigrants. We know that is not your target demographic

 

[RupieDupie]

This is BigFooty. Careful you don't get reported for bringing up things like Gini Coefficients
But yeah, there does seem to be a narrow band that is the sweet-spot for the electorate, too high or too low and they'll vote the other mob in. There is always going to be some inequality in society, in fact you could argue that is a good thing. But it is finding that Goldilocks area where it is neither too high nor too low but just right. This tends to favour pragmatic politicians over ideologues.

On related topic now, the one major advantage we have in Australia, and I hope we never lose, is compulsory voting. It is our defence against tyranny, and our defence against extremism. We just won't let any one party get too carried away with a purely ideological agenda.

Yep, but unfortunately there is nothing to vote for, if we had a party of incompetent morons they could do a better job than the current idiots in charge. I never thought I would see the day when One Nation is a more attractive party than the ones currently in power, maybe The Russians have got me on Facebook or they are the Key Stakeholders the Gubmint is looking after at the expense of the Australian public?

 

[Admiral Byng]

Civilisation has hardly ended in the UK due to lack of compulsory voting.

mind if we come back to that after Brexit?

 

[Malifice]

You have stated before that you provide legal aid for immigrants. We know that is not your target demographic

We dont have a 'no whitey' policy for Legal Aid in Australia you realise?

While there are sepcialised community legal centres that deal only with particular groups (Youth, Elderly, Refugees etc) I work for one of the ones that deal with anyone who walks in the door.

And this may shock you, but people charged with being 'illegal immigrants' are as entitled to legal representation like anyone else charged with anything else. If you were charged with being an illegal immigrant and imprisoned, you could obtain the same representation.

 

[TimmeT]

We dont have a 'no whitey' policy for Legal Aid in Australia you realise?

While there are sepcialised community legal centres that deal only with particular groups (Youth, Elderly, Refugees etc) I work for one of the ones that deal with anyone who walks in the door.

And this may shock you, but people charged with being 'illegal immigrants' are as entitled to legal representation like anyone else charged with anything else. If you were charged with being an illegal immigrant and imprisoned, you could obtain the same representation.

Some community centres do their best to make you think otherwise...

 

[Benny78]

Any nation that isn't overall secular is more or less 3rd world.

In terms of having power and irrigating our s**t away from our beds however we'll never be a 3rd world.

 

[Proud SJW]

Because poor white people don't need legal aid?

The racial strawman is your shield.

 

[medusala]

mind if we come back to that after Brexit?

Good point. The UK not having its laws written by the French and Germans will cause anarchy.

 

[medusala]

And also to rapists and child molesters.

What's your point?

Hopeless straw man. You may as well argue for Australian legal aid for murderers in Honduras.

 

[Malifice]

The racial strawman is your shield.

You might want to have another look. I wasnt the one playing the race card here; I was responding to conservatives who were.

Hopeless straw man. You may as well argue for Australian legal aid for murderers in Honduras.

And if a Honduran man was charged with murder in Australia, he is as entitled to Legal Aid as anyone else is.

Dont worry Meds. If you were in Australia and you were charged with being an Illegal immigrant and they wanted to deport you, you could also arrange representation or legal advice via a community legal service.

 

[TimmeT]

You might want to have another look. I wasnt the one playing the race card here; I was responding to conservatives who were.



And if a Honduran man was charged with murder in Australia, he is as entitled to Legal Aid as anyone else is.

Dont worry Meds. If you were in Australia and you were charged with being an Illegal immigrant and they wanted to deport you, you could also arrange representation or legal advice via a community legal service.

You were the only one who mentioned a person's appearance and bought skin colour into it. strung_out7 didn't.

 

[Malifice]

You were the only one who mentioned a person's appearance and bought skin colour into it. strung_out7 didn't.

Of course. He meant illegal immigrants off all ethnic backgrounds.

Clearly why he pulled me up on it.

 

[Seeds]

In light of postings on another board and responses I thought I'd create this question.
Every Australian has heard: if you don't like it leave; gee we are lucky, go live in Iraq/Somalia, other like place if you don't like it etc

But given the rate of change in the world the massive rise of China, India and many others in a generation

Could Australia go backwards? Massive housing issues, youth unemployment, unemployment, lack of new economic opportunity, no defence, inept and corrupt government, etc

Could we actually implode ourselves?
I hope not and have faith in our better nature but challenging Donald Horne what exactly makes us so great besides luck (largely squandered)

Australias unbeleivable net external debt problem and lack of investment in high tech and new industries is damning for our future. I really do think we are a big risk of being the next Greece. Sure we arent quite as corrupt as them but our debt is staggering.

The collapse could come if we get a simultaneous recession in China combined with rising interst rates in the west. If this happens we are stuffed.

 

[Seeds]

This is BigFooty. Careful you don't get reported for bringing up things like Gini Coefficients
But yeah, there does seem to be a narrow band that is the sweet-spot for the electorate, too high or too low and they'll vote the other mob in. There is always going to be some inequality in society, in fact you could argue that is a good thing. But it is finding that Goldilocks area where it is neither too high nor too low but just right. This tends to favour pragmatic politicians over ideologues.

On related topic now, the one major advantage we have in Australia, and I hope we never lose, is compulsory voting. It is our defence against tyranny, and our defence against extremism. We just won't let any one party get too carried away with a purely ideological agenda.

We need more ideology and less pragmatism to get us out of our current problems. Pragmatism has no goals and is wildly inconsistent by definition. As a result nothing substantial can ever get done with pragmatism. We just remain stuck in our current rut. We wont fix the housing problem, inequality of opportunity, climate change and money in politics with pragmatism. Only ideology can help us here. Shared ideology is what binds people together and advances civilisation. Just because there are plenty of dud ideologies doesnt mean we should abandon ideology. That will lead to our doom.

 

[Total Power]

Good point. The UK not having its laws written by the French and Germans will cause anarchy.

 

[Bombermania]

Considering we sit on the door step to quarter of the world's population and share a common language with the world's current super power and have well developed political, legal, educational, business and cultural institutions I would say no chance but we cannot continue to only see Asia as the source of cheap labour or only good for buying our dirt.