List Mgmt. Could this be the greatest list management manoeuvre in VFL/AFL history?

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jonbe54 said:
I don't think they are comparing him literally Ray but more in the style that he plays and his spread of attributes.

I certainly saw Gaz Snr almost single handedly drag Geelong across the line in that GF against Hawthorn - it was quite simply the finest exhibition of forward play I have ever seen or ever expect to see. Gaz Snr was a once in a generation player and probably one of the best of those generational freaks.
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Yep, i was at every game of the 1989 finals and Ablett played at a level nobody has ever played at since.
DeGoey is looking really good and i would hope he reaches the level of a Millane or Brown and we've got a super player
 
barrackers said:
EDIT: West Coast fans could put up this

2013
  • Collingwood wants to move up the draft order
  • Collingwood trades 11, 31 and 49 to West Coast for 6, 44
  • West Coast gets the player they wanted at 6 with 11 - Dom Sheed
  • 2018 - ****
Click to expand...
If it wasn’t Sheed it would have been someone else. They had the last half-dozen or so scoring shots, didn’t they? And until Sheed they were all behinds? It was only a matter of time... I think of that goal as a “team” goal rather than as a brilliant piece of individual play by Sheed.
 

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I think our current list as a whole has to be one of the all time great heists. Here is a team made up of only players from other clubs.

Aish Dunn xx
Howe Roughead Crisp
Mayne Adams Wells
Varcoe Hoskin-Elliot Greenwood
Elliot xx xx
xx Treloar Beams

Compare this with ex players still at other clubs...

Shaw Hartley Brown
Seedsman Keefe Smith
Thomas xx xx
Fasolo Ceglar xx

Witts
 
raymond35 said:
Yes, it's looking great, but who are the people comparing DeGoey to Gary Ablett Snr, and did they ever see Gary Ablett Snr play?
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I love the look of Jordy De Goey,

But Gazza Ablett was simply playing in a different dimension. As a Pies man who lived in Geelong in the 1980s and early 90s it was almost every week I would be looking at either Ablett or Daicos.....

Gary Ablett senior simply did things that mere mortals never dreamed of. I dont think he 'thought' them, he just did them, in fact my guess is that a lot of the time he probably would not have been able to tell you why he did anything. Biologists and sports medicos can talk all they like about twitching muscles and strength and what not - but Gazza would jump over rucks, outsprint sprinters, and unload the bombs of all bombs. Defensive pressure was never really his thing, and the notion of it being a team game often went amiss. But the simple fact of the matter was that he could do things that very very very good 'ordinary' players could train for for a million years and simply never be able to do. Right from that first season in Geelong where he got selected for the Victorian team and decided to play against West Australia all by himself (the Vics got done but the only thing anyone remembers was Ablett providing a sighter of sheer other dimension), through the years when Sheedy used to play Tim Watson to tag him (and Watson was a seriously good footballer) to the days he would go off on a tangent and kick 14 or 15, or the day he simply decided to run past Shane Morwood and a couple of other Pies and unload a muddy ball from 50 out straight through the middle. He was simply playing a different game.

Ablett senior wasnt a thinker. He came into my workplace once asking for directions to a factory only two doors away, and required such intensive explanation my boss (a Kiwi who didnt know who he was) asked if he was all there. At one point he was working at the Grovedale pub and we went there to collect a keg one day, which took a bit of time to organise, and Ablett walked over to us three times in about 25 minutes to ask 'you fellas OK?' and get the same answer every time, as though he hadnt seen us beforehand. But he certainly wasnt malicious either and was memorably generous on occasion. I recall one day when he had his photo taken with some kids (on the way out of training at Kardinia park) and had to go in a hurry and some other kid burst into tears because he couldnt get his photo with Gazza too, Gazza came back and explained to the kid he had to go and promised him he would be there on the Thursday night and would do his photo then, and told him to make sure he had his cats gear nice and clean - he delivered on his promise.

To be honest I wouldnt want Jordy to become Gary Ablett senior. We want Jordy to become what he is becoming - a team focused, self aware disciplined and thinking footballer who knows what to do to help the team. We dont want an instinctive 'beast' who just does it without thinking about it, and becomes so noted for that 'it' that the game consumes him.
 
Merlington said:
Gary Ablett senior...was memorably generous on occasion. I recall one day when he had his photo taken with some kids (on the way out of training at Kardinia park) and had to go in a hurry and some other kid burst into tears because he couldnt get his photo with Gazza too, Gazza came back and explained to the kid he had to go and promised him he would be there on the Thursday night and would do his photo then, and told him to make sure he had his cats gear nice and clean - he delivered on his promise.
Click to expand...

It’s not really “memorably generous” though is it? If he had time to go back and explain to the crying kid that he was too busy and had to leave, then why didn’t he just take the photo then and there? He would have spent more time explaining his reason for leaving than it would have taken to pose for the photo. Weird.
 
Merlington said:
I love the look of Jordy De Goey,

But Gazza Ablett was simply playing in a different dimension. As a Pies man who lived in Geelong in the 1980s and early 90s it was almost every week I would be looking at either Ablett or Daicos.....

Gary Ablett senior simply did things that mere mortals never dreamed of. I dont think he 'thought' them, he just did them, in fact my guess is that a lot of the time he probably would not have been able to tell you why he did anything. Biologists and sports medicos can talk all they like about twitching muscles and strength and what not - but Gazza would jump over rucks, outsprint sprinters, and unload the bombs of all bombs. Defensive pressure was never really his thing, and the notion of it being a team game often went amiss. But the simple fact of the matter was that he could do things that very very very good 'ordinary' players could train for for a million years and simply never be able to do. Right from that first season in Geelong where he got selected for the Victorian team and decided to play against West Australia all by himself (the Vics got done but the only thing anyone remembers was Ablett providing a sighter of sheer other dimension), through the years when Sheedy used to play Tim Watson to tag him (and Watson was a seriously good footballer) to the days he would go off on a tangent and kick 14 or 15, or the day he simply decided to run past Shane Morwood and a couple of other Pies and unload a muddy ball from 50 out straight through the middle. He was simply playing a different game.

Ablett senior wasnt a thinker. He came into my workplace once asking for directions to a factory only two doors away, and required such intensive explanation my boss (a Kiwi who didnt know who he was) asked if he was all there. At one point he was working at the Grovedale pub and we went there to collect a keg one day, which took a bit of time to organise, and Ablett walked over to us three times in about 25 minutes to ask 'you fellas OK?' and get the same answer every time, as though he hadnt seen us beforehand. But he certainly wasnt malicious either and was memorably generous on occasion. I recall one day when he had his photo taken with some kids (on the way out of training at Kardinia park) and had to go in a hurry and some other kid burst into tears because he couldnt get his photo with Gazza too, Gazza came back and explained to the kid he had to go and promised him he would be there on the Thursday night and would do his photo then, and told him to make sure he had his cats gear nice and clean - he delivered on his promise.

To be honest I wouldnt want Jordy to become Gary Ablett senior. We want Jordy to become what he is becoming - a team focused, self aware disciplined and thinking footballer who knows what to do to help the team. We dont want an instinctive 'beast' who just does it without thinking about it, and becomes so noted for that 'it' that the game consumes him.
Click to expand...

Holy *. That's a tear jerker. Maybe don't post these stories for a while. Damn. Gazza was a real human being. But then, they called him "God" for a reason.
 
barrackers said:
Mayo (Maynard, Moore) aside I like your thinking but no, without much thought this one currently beats it

2009
  • Collingwood entices ex-St Kilda captain Luke Ball to join them
  • Collingwood tries to facilitate a trade
  • St Kilda says pick 30 + Nathan Brown
  • Collingwood no, how about Goldsack or Wellingham?
  • St Kilda no we're only interested in Nathan Brown otherwise we'd prefer a pick in the top pick 25 by itself
  • Collingwood proceeds to organise an in principle agreement to package 30 + Wellingham to NM for 25
  • St Kilda no, if you're dealing with NM we'd like pick 21 instead
  • NM no, the deal was for 25
  • Ball walks to the draft and refuses to meet with other clubs where Collingwood drafts him with 30
  • 2010 Grand Final - Collingwood draws with and then defeats St Kilda. Brown blankets Riewoldt in both matches, Goldsack kicks the first goal in the replay, Ball and Wellingham play a role (Wellingham had a career best year in 2010, Ball produces numbers not seen since 2006)
And some mayo
  • 2012 Collingwood trades Wellingham to WC for pick 18 (Brodie Grundy)


EDIT: West Coast fans could put up this

2013
  • Collingwood wants to move up the draft order
  • Collingwood trades 11, 31 and 49 to West Coast for 6, 44
  • West Coast gets the player they wanted at 6 with 11 - Dom Sheed
  • 2018 - ****
Click to expand...
who did we get at 6?
 
nahnah said:
Should end up better than the Tarrant trade

Beams > Tarrant
De Goey > Reid
Crisp = Medders
Greenwood > nothing

just need the flag with all 4 playing to cap it off
Click to expand...
I personally think it’s a distant second to the Ben Davies trade.
 

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It's not bad. We were never going to go after many others beyond Quaynor and Kelly.

We'll have to wait and see how Ely Smith, Noah Answerth and whoever they use the first rounder on this year turn out for Brisbane, however.
 
To be fair, you probably need to include what we gave up for Beams to come back as a 30 year old.
Brisbane haven't done terribly out of this trade either and got Beams in his prime.
 
davywap said:
2014 - Dayne Beams tells Collingwood he wants to go to Brisbane. The Pies work out a trade with Brisbane:
  • Beams goes to Brisbane with pick 67.
  • Collingwood get Brisbane's first and second round draft picks and Jack Crisp.
  • Collingwood uses the first round pick to draft Jordan DeGoey. This allows them to also draft Darcy Moore with their now second first-round pick.
  • Collingwood trades the second round pick they received for Beams to North Melbourne for Levi Greenwood.
  • Collingwood uses their original second-round pick on drafting Brayden Maynard.
2019 - Collingwood have just lost a grand final by under a goal
  • DeGoey is quickly becoming a superstar and is being compared by some with Gary Ablett Snr.
  • Greenwood is one of the best "taggers" in the game, who regularly makes players like Dusty Martin and Dangerfield his bitches.
  • Jack "steak knives" Crisp has not missed a single game for Collingwood and is in their top 10 players.
  • Moore started off sensationally, had some injury setbacks, and now looks like becoming a very solid key-defender who would still swing forward if required.
  • Maynard has cemented his spot in Collingwood's backline.
  • Dayne Beams has returned to Collingwood is instantly probably in their top 5 players.
I can't remember everything that's happened in footy, but I don't know of a trade that's turned out this well in a long time, if ever.
Click to expand...
I agree its turned into a great deal but you have added a little mayo.

The pick we used to get Moore wasnt changed by this deal and it was always going to used on Darcy who ranked much higher than 10 in that draft. Likewise picking up Maynard had nothing to do with the Beams deal.

Basically it ended up being

2014 Beams to Lions and the net gain for us was De Goey, Greenwood and Crisp

2019 Beams to Pies plus some picks we used for points getting our academy, father sons . Brisbane pick Ely Smith Noah Answerth with our picks we sent to them and and have our 1st round pick next year.

Still got some time to see how our 2019 Beams deal goes, if Brissy pick up a couple of young stars they will count it as a win. The 2014 part of the deal has been a beauty
 
Gone Critical said:
I agree its turned into a great deal but you have added a little mayo.

The pick we used to get Moore wasnt changed by this deal and it was always going to used on Darcy who ranked much higher than 10 in that draft. Likewise picking up Maynard had nothing to do with the Beams deal.

Basically it ended up being

2014 Beams to Lions and the net gain for us was De Goey, Greenwood and Crisp

2019 Beams to Pies plus some picks we used for points getting our academy, father sons . Brisbane pick Ely Smith Noah Answerth with our picks we sent to them and and have our 1st round pick next year.

Still got some time to see how our 2019 Beams deal goes, if Brissy pick up a couple of young stars they will count it as a win. The 2014 part of the deal has been a beauty
Click to expand...

As good as Beams was and is, you could almost argue Beams for De Goey straight up is a win for us considering how De Goey has turned out. Every side has gun mids but only we have De Goey. :)
 
sirlothie said:
All Tarrant fault I guess, we would have went 22-0 and won the flag without him. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Clearly Tarrant’s fault, just like it was Moore’s fault we lost those games in which he played last season.
 
sirlothie said:
All Tarrant fault I guess, we would have went 22-0 and won the flag without him. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Probably, what’d he do on GF day?

I’m just saying I don’t know why anyone reckons getting Tarrant back was a good thing. The team went downhill when he returned. Getting rid of him was part of our progression to a premiership winning team
 
eddiesmith said:
Probably, what’d he do on GF day?

I’m just saying I don’t know why anyone reckons getting Tarrant back was a good thing. The team went downhill when he returned. Getting rid of him was part of our progression to a premiership winning team
Click to expand...

We were better in 2011 than 2010 except for against Geelong. Otherwise we beat all comers. We got him back for bugger all, he only played 2 years and 35 games when he came back. I don't know how you think 1 player (Moore and Tarrant who are/were both good) brings the whole side down based only on them...
 
Gone Critical said:
I agree its turned into a great deal but you have added a little mayo.

The pick we used to get Moore wasnt changed by this deal and it was always going to used on Darcy who ranked much higher than 10 in that draft. Likewise picking up Maynard had nothing to do with the Beams deal.

Basically it ended up being

2014 Beams to Lions and the net gain for us was De Goey, Greenwood and Crisp

2019 Beams to Pies plus some picks we used for points getting our academy, father sons . Brisbane pick Ely Smith Noah Answerth with our picks we sent to them and and have our 1st round pick next year.

Still got some time to see how our 2019 Beams deal goes, if Brissy pick up a couple of young stars they will count it as a win. The 2014 part of the deal has been a beauty
Click to expand...
It would be more realistic to add Aish as the mayo. After not being able to prise him out as part of the Beams deal he came one year later.
 
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