Craigy v Eade....

[KUNG FU]

From what I know Bailey is highly regarded down Port way, but the job of an assistant is vastly different to that of a head coach. You can point to their list all you want, but the fact that his team completely lacks any structure or game plan even now speaks volumes of his incompetency to create a moderately competent AFL team.

 

[King Elvis]

Eade was that desperate to come here?

For mine, Craig was the perfect fit and the logical choice for our Club; but if he wasn't available for whatever reason, I think Eade would've been a good fit as well.

 

[birdmanptr]

Whos closer to winning a flag..? Eade.

Good question

I wish i had the ability to put my thoughts into type ill try

I would say its equal at the moment The dogs have got their forward now and in the Prelim last year they were not far of the mark.In fact ill say Hall plays in last years prelim Dogs play a GF.

Us however are in a funny spot i would say IF not this year or next then we are back in the pack for a while IF we can get our full side on the park for a long time then i am confident we can give it a shake this year.

Eade has done a super job and would be interesting to know how he would have gone if he had the same off field resources that Craigy has had.

 

[amer]

you'll be bookmarking this post, along with all the others right?

Of course!

 

[Tex200]

Very hard to compare unless you give each coach the same list of players for a season and then see how they each go...even then there are plenty of variables.

Personally I was very happy with the club choosing NC and nothing has happened to change my mind. Based purely upon win/loss ratio NC could be assessed as the better option. However, if you are comparing the coaches then I look further into it.

NC has delivered to us a side which has developed a culture that has total respect within the AFL community in terms of competitiveness, professionalism and diligence. That culture not only demands respect externally but also internally and keeps interstate players here.

In a personal sense NC also presents those qualities in all of his public dealings. As a supporter I am extremely proud of my club, the way it conducts itself and the way it is perceived externally. We are are force to reckoned with on and off the ground and as a supporter I can ask for no more than that. NC would not have been solely responsible for all of that, but no doubt would have set the tone.

Would Eade have delivered such an all encompassing culture...possibly, but I doubt it and I certainly doubt he would have done it better.

 

[Allbetsroff]

On the topic of Dean Bailey, if the team you coach has lost nearly every game for the last 3 seasons and looks likely to continue with much of the same, it eventually becomes the status quo. Players become used to losing and receiving a fat pay check every year. Whether this sort of "losing culture" will affect their attempts at success in the future we'll have to wait and see.

Momentum is a powerful thing, (granted good players are too).

 

[SydCrow]

Roos took over and made Rocket look ordinary. Craigy did the same thing to Ayres. Saying that NC inherited a good list is all very well but you have to give him (and Roos) some credit for the improved performance.

the dogs seem to have a pretty solid culture now (however you define it) and so does Adelaide.

call me old fashioned but I also like Craigy's loyalty and commitment to the club.

 

[Vader]

Both Ayres & Eade had lost the confidence of the players. Both were replaced with well liked (loved in Roos' case) coaches and the players responded almost immediately.

I think both Adelaide and the Dogs have good reason to be happy with their appointments.

 

[Crow-mo]

Roos took over and made Rocket look ordinary.

Roos took over and made Rocket look stale. which he was.

Craigy did the same thing to Ayres. Saying that NC inherited a good list is all very well but you have to give him (and Roos) some credit for the improved performance.

Craig kinda did the same thing. we had a terrible, terrible injury run in 2004 - something craig couldn't do anything about when he took over for the last 1/2 season. we had a dream run injury wise in 2005, and combined with some new ideas and innovation from Craig, and a fresh start we had a great run.

but other than 2005, and half of 2006 Craig hasn't really improved much on Ayres. Now, I believe this year may be the year that changes but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

call me old fashioned but I also like Craigy's loyalty and commitment to the club.

its nice to have, but I really don't care. I prefer my coach to be loyal, and one club focused. definitely. but in the end it counts for very little when weighed up against performance. all I care about is results.

 

[Mismatched]

Roos took over and made Rocket look stale. which he was.



Craig kinda did the same thing. we had a terrible, terrible injury run in 2004 - something craig couldn't do anything about when he took over for the last 1/2 season. we had a dream run injury wise in 2005, and combined with some new ideas and innovation from Craig, and a fresh start we had a great run.

but other than 2005, and half of 2006 Craig hasn't really improved much on Ayres. Now, I believe this year may be the year that changes but lets not get ahead of ourselves.



its nice to have, but I really don't care. I prefer my coach to be loyal, and one club focused. definitely. but in the end it counts for very little when weighed up against performance. all I care about is results.

Agree with pretty much all of this.

With regards to the last point, I think this may have been the tipping point, along with his indepth knowledge of both the players and the club that got Craig the job over Eade. I think both would have made outstanding candidates and we were probably blessed with options at the time.

Having said that, after 12 or so seasons, Eade is still yet to win a premiership and this season looks like it could be his last chance for a few years. Just out of interest, for our Victorian posters to perhaps answer, does Eade cop as much flack in Victoria as Craig does in SA? re his finals record and whilst achieving some pretty good results, ultimately failing to achieve the ultimate goal?

 

[marvin]

Having said that, after 12 or so seasons, Eade is still yet to win a premiership and this season looks like it could be his last chance for a few years. Just out of interest, for our Victorian posters to perhaps answer, does Eade cop as much flack in Victoria as Craig does in SA? re his finals record and whilst achieving some pretty good results, ultimately failing to achieve the ultimate goal?

No, he doesn't, and for good reason.

In 2006, the Dogs came into the finals in 8th place, and knocked off the 5th placed Collingwood in week 1. And in 2008 and 2009, the Dogs have performed exactly to par for a 3rd place team - lose to 2nd in week 1, beat 6th in week 2, and go out to the minor premier in the preliminary final.

No 1st losing to 4th, or 5th losing to 8th debacles in the Bulldogs years.

 

[Mismatched]

No, he doesn't, and for good reason.

In 2006, the Dogs came into the finals in 8th place, and knocked off the 5th placed Collingwood in week 1. And in 2008 and 2009, the Dogs have performed exactly to par for a 3rd place team - lose to 2nd in week 1, beat 6th in week 2, and go out to the minor premier in the preliminary final.

No 1st losing to 4th, or 5th losing to 8th debacles in the Bulldogs years.

Yep, for a grand record of 3 wins and 5 losses, as opposed to Craigy's 3 wins and 6 losses, wow massive difference he's a master coach And yet he's still yet to beat a top 4 side in finals and has managed to progress the Bulldogs no further than the Crows.

I don't see any real good reason there, why Eade shouldn't receive similar flack, Craigy's record would be so much better if he hadn't managed to somehow squeeze us into the finals in 07/08, where, lets face it we really didn't deserve it, we especially didn't deserve to finish 5th(or 4th as we almost did) in 08, the 7th we ultimately received was more than par for that season.

Of the 9 current coaches in the AFL who have played in 5 or more finals, Craig and Eade are the only two with a less than 40% winning record in finals. Eade's record is even worse if you discount his first year as coach of the Swans in '96, where he somehow managed to coach them to a GF(only to be flogged by the Roos).

I'm not trying to defend Craigy's record here, all I'm saying is Eade's ain't much better.

 

[Crow-mo]

James i don't think your conclusion is supported by the evidence.

For right or for wrong, we have underachieved, and in some cases massively underachieved in finals; whereas the doggies have both achieved at least at the median, and in some cases over achieved.

Hell we don't have a single comparable finals performance to their losing prelim last year.

Only parocialism would suggests its even. Now that might change but their finals records are rightly seen as different.

 

[Thylacinus]

I wanted Eade as coach, but Craig quickly won me over. I would be happy with either, but I believe Neil is excellent. Neil has my full suport regardless of where we end up this year ( I still think we will do well). He is quality, open to constructive criticism and growth. We have done well and should not be fickle supporters. We have a quality coach, club and list, and should be big enough to ride out the odd trough in view of the bigger picture. P*ss weak supporters give me the s*its!

 

[marvin]

Yep, for a grand record of 3 wins and 5 losses, as opposed to Craigy's 3 wins and 6 losses, wow massive difference he's a master coach And yet he's still yet to beat a top 4 side in finals and has managed to progress the Bulldogs no further than the Crows.

Of the 9 current coaches in the AFL who have played in 5 or more finals, Craig and Eade are the only two with a less than 40% winning record in finals. Eade's record is even worse if you discount his first year as coach of the Swans in '96, where he somehow managed to coach them to a GF(only to be flogged by the Roos).

The problem with using finals winning record as a barometer is that a team that regularly finishes 3rd/4th and goes according to seedings will have a 33%winning record, but a team that finishes 5th/6th and goes according to seedings will have a 50% record. That's why IMHO it's much more indicative to look at upsets, either given or received, which is where Craig (and Williams in the early 2000s) copped it, and where other coaches like Roos and Malthouse have done better.

I'm not trying to defend Craigy's record here, all I'm saying is Eade's ain't much better.

And I'm not knocking Craig, I'm trying to explain why Eade's had less criticism.

My prediction is that anything less than a GF will see the heat on Eade at the end of this season. With the recruitment of Hall, half his forward line is 33 or older. The team that lost in the PF last year was on average 6 months older and 40 games more experienced than either St Kilda or Geelong, and they can field a team with 15 guys that have played 100 matches (and 2 more in the 90s) in round 1.

Anyone who subscribes to the "premiership window" theory must wonder if the Bulldogs one is close to shutting, and if it does, a strategy that has brought in Aka, Hudson, Welsh and now Hall will be second guessed.

 

[noddy]

The problem with using finals winning record as a barometer is that a team that regularly finishes 3rd/4th and goes according to seedings will have a 33%winning record, but a team that finishes 5th/6th and goes according to seedings will have a 50% record. That's why IMHO it's much more indicative to look at upsets, either given or received, which is where Craig (and Williams in the early 2000s) copped it, and where other coaches like Roos and Malthouse have done better.



And I'm not knocking Craig, I'm trying to explain why Eade's had less criticism.


My prediction is that anything less than a GF will see the heat on Eade at the end of this season. With the recruitment of Hall, half his forward line is 33 or older. The team that lost in the PF last year was on average 6 months older and 40 games more experienced than either St Kilda or Geelong, and they can field a team with 15 guys that have played 100 matches (and 2 more in the 90s) in round 1.

Anyone who subscribes to the "premiership window" theory must wonder if the Bulldogs one is close to shutting, and if it does, a strategy that has brought in Aka, Hudson, Welsh and now Hall will be second guessed.

I give them a 2 year window when barring injuries to key players they will now have their best opportunity to win a flag for yonks.

Then i guess how long does a coach remain at a club as the senior man without producing the ultimate 5, 8,10 years ? is there a time frame that should/would be in place ?

Neil Craig has developed a list that could have that elusive window remaining half open for a number of years we just need a Fud to push it out even further.

 

[lunacy]

I think Craig is a much better coach than Ayres. Craig is innovative and is always at the cutting edge of the modern game both tactically and technologically. He is also willing to learn from other sports, receive criticism and feedback from players etc.

Ayres had a dream midfield to work with; Ricciuto, Mcleod, Edwards, Goodwin. When Craig took over we had a terrible forward line, an ageing midfield and a reasonable defence.

Craig now has a very good versatile forward line with x factor, a good developing midfield and a great defence.

Craig >>>> Ayres

 

[KUNG FU]

Saying the Dogs have a decisively better finals record is like saying Australia have an awesome World Cup record. You can't fail if you don't make an appearance.

 

[Crow-mo]

I think Craig is a much better coach than Ayres. Craig is innovative and is always at the cutting edge of the modern game both tactically and technologically. He is also willing to learn from other sports, receive criticism and feedback from players etc.

what have we innovated since 2005?

No question craig brought fresh ideas and success with him, but the lingering suspicion is that some of that suffers from first novel syndrome.

Ayres had a dream midfield to work with; Ricciuto, Mcleod, Edwards, Goodwin. When Craig took over we had a terrible forward line, an ageing midfield and a reasonable defence.

Oh c'mon. Both relied on rhe same midfields!!!!

 

[beagle2]

Eade was on AA tonight Asked about new trends in game plan he said he thought there was a move tomore kicking and marking as against the running handball game
He pointed out that the multi handball game of the Eagles fellapart against the Powers more accurate kicking game
Meanwhle the crows are still trying to develop the multi handball game which works OK at training but disintegrate under pressure defense

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Eade was on AA tonight Asked about new trends in game plan he said he thought there was a move tomore kicking and marking as against the running handball game
He pointed out that the multi handball game of the Eagles fellapart against the Powers more accurate kicking game
Meanwhle the crows are still trying to develop the multi handball game which works OK at training but disintegrate under pressure defense

I was interested in his answer when he was asked what (if anything) he's changed about his coaching over the journey. He said that now he was more interested in what a player could do, rather than worrying about what they couldn't do.

 

[amer]

I was interested in his answer when he was asked what (if anything) he's changed about his coaching over the journey. He said that now he was more interested in what a player could do, rather than worrying about what they couldn't do.

This is interesting. Did he go into much depth on it?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is interesting. Did he go into much depth on it?

I only caught bits and pieces but I didn't hear him give specific player examples unfortunately. I think GC and SR were both expecting him to talk about how he has mellowed (slightly!) in the coaching box and seems a little more relaxed than his Sydney days. Remember when he got in trouble with the police at Subiaco for his language in the box that was audible to the members?

Reading between the lines, I thought he meant it in two ways:-

1) that he is a little more forgiving now over the errors and mistakes players make during a game

but mostly 2) that all players will have strengths and weaknesses and you can occupy a heck of a lot of your time trying to fix up their bad bits, when perhaps it is better to accept that they aren't perfect and work on ways to utilise their strengths

 

[paul scholes]

Sorry to but in but this has been very thought provoking reading. Makes a pleasant change to the drivel that is all over Big Footy now.Eade in a photo finish maybe a developed print

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Oh, we're capable of plenty of drivel here too. This thread is something of an anomaly.

However the recent deleting of my A New Thread thread was a body blow for drivel-lovers everywhere. That thread had unlimited possibilities.