Cricket Discussion - Part 2

[raptalia]

From Tim Paine,

No, I came here to try and win a Test match and am looking forward to going to South Africa,” Paine said when asked if his captaincy days were numbered.

Tim Paine will refuse to give up the Test captaincy after Australia’s 33-year dominance at the Gabba was shattered by India’s miraculous series victory on Tuesday.

Over to you Justin Langer. A not so hard decision has to be made as Paine is past it as a wicket keeper and not up to it as a Captain. A harder decision will be who replaces Paine. Knowing Langer and his left field approach no one should hold their breath waiting for Paine to go.

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[1954]

Congratulations to India, that was an extremely gutsy effort, particularly by Pujara who was hit something like 10 times, but not to put too fine a point on it wins for the Aussies in both the Sydney and Brisbane tests were burnt by Paine's inability to take the chances offered by Pant early in both second innings of those tests, and added to that his captaincy, use of bowlers, and field placings were totally unimaginative with little to no attempt to get a wicket by trying something different.

If Green eg is the bowling allrounder he has been hyped up to be he had to bowl more than 3 or 4 overs on the 5th day, but Paine used him like he was no more than a change bowler, and his lack of use of Labuschagne's leg spin was mind boggling.

I suspect the real bad news will be the Aussie selectors and Langer will continue to have an inflated opinion of Paine and his captaincy and we are stuck with him for at least 2 more test series.
Let's hope it won't require a smacking by the Seth Efricans and a shellacking from the to and froms in the next ashe's series for them to get the message.

 

[philreich]

As disappointing as yesterday was (and congratulations to India - they were better than us during the key moments), it was nevertheless a classic illustration of why Test cricket will always be the pinnacle of the sport. You can't manufacture that type of drama in any other form of the game: perhaps with the exception of the 2019 World Cup Final, which has to be the greatest ODI ever.

Give me a Test match over a T20 game any day of the week!!!

 

[raptalia]

Am I the only one who finds FOXTEL cricket coverage flat and disappointing? It is way too technical as they want to show replays of the previous over in the middle of an over. Half the time the viewer does not know whether it is live action or highlights. I am not sure we need to see coloured lines and dots all over the screen either. As an example early on the final day they put up a graphic which showed a damning stat. In 57 deliveries Australia had only bowled 2 balls that would have hit the stumps. A critical factor for sure but did it need a 'how good are we' graphic ? Why not just say it and get on with some opinion around that fact. There was practically no discussion on it at all.

It maybe just me but overall the FOXTEL commentary team lacks personality. Howard, Gilchrist, Lee and Waugh may be knowledgeable but they all sound the same. The likes of Bill Lawry, Richie Benaud, Ian Chappell and Tony Greig all had distinctive voices and accents and we knew who was talking. I was listening to the ABC coverage and a listener texted that he turned the FOXTEL commentary off but the problem was a delay between the FOXTEL vision and the ABC commentary. Jim Maxwell's response was to rewind FOXTEL until the commentary and the vision were in sync. From that it sounds as if I am not the only one who finds the FOXTEL commentators flat and boring. When he was on the ABC Kerry O'Keefe was full of life telling jokes and passing comments about players past and present. There is none of that on FOXTEL as O'Keefe is simply a special comments man.

I actually like the SEVEN commentary team better but I cannot watch the SEVEN coverage because of the ads.

 

[philreich]

Am I the only one who finds FOXTEL cricket coverage flat and disappointing? It is way too technical as they want to show replays of the previous over in the middle of an over. Half the time the viewer does not know whether it is live action or highlights. I am not sure we need to see coloured lines and dots all over the screen either. As an example early on the final day they put up a graphic which showed a damning stat. In 57 deliveries Australia had only bowled 2 balls that would have hit the stumps. A critical factor for sure but did it need a 'how good are we' graphic ? Why not just say it and get on with some opinion around that fact. There was practically no discussion on it at all.

It maybe just me but overall the FOXTEL commentary team lacks personality. Howard, Gilchrist, Lee and Waugh may be knowledgeable but they all sound the same. The likes of Bill Lawry, Richie Benaud, Ian Chappell and Tony Greig all had distinctive voices and accents and we knew who was talking. I was listening to the ABC coverage and a listener texted that he turned the FOXTEL commentary off but the problem was a delay between the FOXTEL vision and the ABC commentary. Jim Maxwell's response was to rewind FOXTEL until the commentary and the vision were in sync. From that it sounds as if I am not the only one who finds the FOXTEL commentators flat and boring. When he was on the ABC Kerry O'Keefe was full of life telling jokes and passing comments about players past and present. There is none of that on FOXTEL as O'Keefe is simply a special comments man.

I actually like the SEVEN commentary team better but I cannot watch the SEVEN coverage because of the ads.

The ads is the main reason why I prefer Foxtel. One commentator I do find entertaining is Andrew Symonds, but yeah - most of the rest are a bit mundane. Bring on the footy!!!!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Don't have Foxtel, but on 7 have found Alison Mitchell, Ricky Ponting and Sunni Gavaskar fantastic this series.

Fleming and Tim Lane have been good again as was Trent Copeland earlier on with his analysis stuff before he got stuck in Sydney with Covid cluster. The level of competition even seemed to improve the usual average stuff of Brayshaw, Slater and Blewett.

Found myself flicking between ABC and SEN when not in front of the box, as both have commentators I just cant listen to. They are annoying and whinging types. Great to have Ian Chappell on ABC. Reckon radio is a better medium for him to talk cricket than the TV.

 

[Nemisis]

Don't have Foxtel, but on 7 have found Alison Mitchell, Ricky Ponting and Sunni Gavaskar fantastic this series.

Fleming and Tim Lane have been good again as was Trent Copeland earlier on with his analysis stuff before he got stuck in Sydney with Covid cluster. The level of competition even seemed to improve the usual average stuff of Brayshaw, Slater and Blewett.

Found myself flicking between ABC and SEN when not in front of the box, as both have commentators I just cant listen to. They are annoying and whinging types. Great to have Ian Chappell on ABC. Reckon radio is a better medium for him to talk cricket than the TV.

Exactly. Chappelli was getting stale at 9 but he really seamed to be enjoying his time on ABC radio. He has been far more positive and his stories have been great.

 

[JimmyBC]

Tim Lane is dreadful sorry RussellEbertHandball

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Tim Lane is dreadful sorry RussellEbertHandball

Why is he dreadful? He is accurate with his descriptions, and rarely uses hyperbole. That's what you want from a ball by ball commentator.

 

[JimmyBC]

Why is he dreadful? He is accurate with his descriptions, and rarely uses hyperbole. That's what you want from a ball by ball commentator.

Absolute empty vessel, boring voice, vanilla, pathetic attempts at humour etc.

 

[Turiyasangitananda]

Absolute empty vessel, boring voice, vanilla, pathetic attempts at humour etc.

If you had to choose, who would you rather out of James Brayshaw, Tim Lane or Mark Riccuito?

 

[philreich]

If you had to choose, who would you rather out of James Brayshaw, Tim Lane or Mark Riccuito?

Where's the inanimate carbon rod option?

 

[philreich]

Rashid Khan playing a blinder for Afghanistan - he's just smashed a 50 off just 27 balls in a 50 over game.

 

[JimmyBC]

If you had to choose, who would you rather out of James Brayshaw, Tim Lane or Mark Riccuito?

Where's the inanimate carbon rod option?

I'm with Phil

 

[raptalia]

Tim Lane's boring commentary beats two guys sharing a private conversation about getting a 'michelle'. I can recognise Lane's so called 'boring' voice but I am stuffed if I can tell the difference between, Adam Gilchrist, Brett Lee or Mark Waugh not to mention that cardboard cut out Mark Howard.These guys all sound the same and prattle on in their own world. The problem is they shared the same change rooms for so long they still think they are there and not being paid to commentate on what is happening out on the ground.

It is probably a generation thing as Tim Lane is an 'old school' commentator and is a product of a radio environment where commentators had to describe what was happening on the field whereas the new age voices sit in arm chairs in front of a monitor an try to outsmart the person sitting next to them.

Obviously I watch the FOXTEL coverage in preference to SEVEN, firstly because I have FOXTEL but mainly because they have less ads.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Compare the pair.

Last 2 sides to win a test at the Gabba. Total career tests played included

Nov 1988...................Jan 2021

Greenidge...... 108.... Sharma.... 34
Haynes.......... 116.... Gill............ 3
Richardson....... 86.... Pujara...... 81
Hooper......... 102.... Rahane..... 69
Richards......... 121... Agarwal.... 14
Logie............... 52.... Pant........ 16
Dujon.............. 81.... Sundar...... 1
Marshall........... 81.... Thakur...... 2
Ambrose........ 98..... Saini........ 2
Walsh............ 132...... Siraj....... 3
Patterson....... 28...... Natarajan. 1

Players in bold for Windies had played less than 20 tests, and 5, Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Dujon and Marshall had played more than 50 tests.

Last 2 Aussie sides to lose at the Gabba with number of tests

Marsh.............23rd of 50....... Warner........ 86
Boon..............32nd of 107..... Harris.......... 10
Veletta............6th of 8.......... Labuschagne 18
Wood..............57th of 59........ Smith......... 77
Border.............91st of 156...... Wade.......... 36
S Waugh.........22nd of 168...... Green........... 4
Healy................4th of 119...... Paine.......... 35
Dodemaide........7th of 10........ Cummins..... 34
McDermott.......23rd of 71........ Starc.......... 61
C Mathews.........3rd of 3.......... Lyon.......... 100
May.................5th of 24.......... Hazelwood... 55

Shows how hard it was for the 1988 side to beat the Windies and how much extra experience the 2021 Oz side had over India in their miracle win.

The 4 Oz bowlers are arguably Australia's best 4 bowler combo given they have played 19 tests together which is the most ever by an Australian foursome. McGrath, Lee, Gillespie and Warne played 16 tests together as a foursome. I rate them better than these 4, but the stats say there isn't much between them.

But they struggled in 2 back to back 4th innings to bowl out India. In those 2 innings, Oz bowled 228 overs and India scored 12 for 663 with the last 2 wickets at the Gabba being Sundar and Thakur playing stupid glory victory shots with 10 runs to go.

The draw in Sydney was the 5th highest 4th innings score, 3 of the other 4 were draws, and the paragraph below is the details of the highest successful 4th innings run chase at the SCG. At the Gabba, India not only achieved the most successful run chase by over 100 runs but was the 4th highest 4th Innings at the Gabba, the other 3 times the sides lost.

Paine's poor captaincy and the handling of his bowlers played a big part in the Aussies not bowling out India, along with some brilliant and courageous batting by the Indians.

McGrath, Lee, Warne and MacGill did play 6 tests together as a foursome attack and at the end of the last of those 6 tests at SCG January 2006, the record books had them having taken 542+182+659+182 = 1,575 wickets, which is a record wickets taken by a foursome at the end of that Test. Oz won that game by 8 wickets against SAF made 2 for 288 in 60 overs on the last day in the last hour of the game. SAF made a generous 6th wicket declaration trying to win the game and draw the series. Its the highest 4th innings score to win at the SCG.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Isa, Warne and M. Waugh are ******* great and no ads means Foxtel win easily.

Was driving back from Swan Hill on Sunday and Ian Chappell came on the wireless. Someone should shoot that campaigner. He is a ******* deadshit. His story about how Washington got his name nearly made me drive into a tree. Ruins what is usually the best commentary on the ABC.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

How good is Rishabh Pant?? His 89* at the Gabba and 97 (when he threw his wicket away) at the SCG rank right up there with some of India's greatest players batting in the 4th innings of Test.

Including Pant, only 8 players have hit 89 or more when India have batted 4th and won a test. Gill's 91 is part of that 8.

Viswanath's and Gavaskar's scores came when India made 4/406 in Trinidad in the 3rd Test in March 1976 after the Windies returned from being smashed by Lillee and Thomson and Lloyd said we are playing 4 fast bowlers.

In the 4th Test in Jamaica the pace battery got stuck into the Indians hitting the head and body, broke a few bones in their first Innings and players had to retire hurt and in the second innings they protected a couple bowlers who couldn't bat and they had 5 players absent hurt and their innings ended at 5/97 and the Windies had to make a dozen runs to win the Test and won the 4 test series 2-1.

We tried that a bit in the 3rd Test, but Indians now handle short pitched bowling a lot better.

The other 4 players achieved their scores in tests in India.

These are the highest individual 4th innings scores when India has won a Tests, thanks to Statsguru at ESPNCricinfo.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0	4s	6s
GR Viswanath	1976-1976	1	1	0	112	112	112.00	1	0	0	15	0
VVS Laxman	2010-2010	1	1	1	103	103*	-	1	0	0	12	0
SR Tendulkar	2008-2008	1	1	1	103	103*	-	1	0	0	9	0
SM Gavaskar	1976-1976	1	1	0	102	102	102.00	1	0	0	13	0
SC Ganguly	2001-2001	1	1	1	98	98*	-	0	1	0	15	0
Shubman Gill	2021-2021	1	1	0	91	91	91.00	0	1	0	8	2
AL Wadekar	1969-1969	1	1	1	91	91*	-	0	1	0	15	0
RR Pant	2021-2021	1	1	1	89	89*	-	0	1	0	9	1

Below are the highest individual 4th innings scores when India has drawn Tests.

Gavaskar has made 89 or more twice and help draw games for India, everyone else has only done it once.

His 221 against England at The Oval in 1979, 4th Test with England 1-0 up after 3 Tests, must have been an amazing innings. I remember reading about it but have never seen any footage of it.

England set India 438 to win and India almost got there with 8/429, batting 150 overs.

Pant at 23 years of age is a huge talent. He's already hit 1,000 Test runs and is averaging 43. Indian selectors question his wicket keeping skills, but if there are issue, play Saha, but he has to bat at number 6. He's proved he is good enough to be picked as a batsman. He could be India's Adam Gilchrist.

Gilchrist didn't make his debut until a week or so before he turned 28. After 16 Tests
Pant, 27 Innings 2n.o. 1,088 runs, Ave 43.52, 2 x 100's + 4 x 50.
Gilly, 23 Innings 4n.o. 992 runs, .. Ave 52.21, 2 x 100's + 7 x 50
after 27 Innings 4n.o. 1,236 runs, Ave 53.73, 3 x 100's + 8 x 50 from 19 Tests.

Like Gilly, Pant is a match winner with his aggressive approach.

Gilchrist's first 15 tests he played in a winning side every test. His 16th was the V.V.S Laxman game in Kolkata.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	100	50	0
SM Gavaskar	1971-1979	2	2	1	338	221	338.00	2	0	0
DB Vengsarkar	1979-1979	1	1	1	146	146*	-	1	0	0
VS Hazare	1949-1949	1	1	0	122	122	122.00	1	0	0
SR Tendulkar	1990-1990	1	1	1	119	119*	-	1	0	0
SV Manjrekar	1989-1989	1	1	1	113	113*	-	1	0	0
M Azharuddin	1997-1997	1	1	1	108	108*	-	1	0	0
S Mushtaq Ali	1948-1949	1	1	0	106	106	106.00	1	0	0
V Kohli	2014-2014	1	1	1	105	105*	-	1	0	0
R Dravid	1999-1999	1	1	1	103	103*	-	1	0	0
SC Ganguly	1999-1999	1	1	1	101	101*	-	1	0	0
W Jaffer	2006-2006	1	1	0	100	100	100.00	1	0	0
NS Sidhu	1994-1994	1	1	0	98	98	98.00	0	1	0
RR Pant	2021-2021	1	1	0	97	97	97.00	0	1	0
P Roy	1958-1958	1	1	0	90	90	90.00	0	1	0

 

[Rising Power]

Just looking at the international cricket scores and thought I'd never see the day where I recognise half the names of the Bangladesh team and none of their opponents, the West Indies. Never heard of a single one of their players.

Btw, some kid called Lasith Embuldeniya from Sri Lanka took 7 v England in 1st inns and 3 so far in the 2nd inns. A spinner, opening the bowling in both innings.

 

[raptalia]

So Matthew Wade is dropped while Travis Head keeps his spot in the squad to tour South Africa. I didn't think that would happen. Trevor Hohns also talking up the chances of Alex Carey.

The Squads:


Australia Test squad: Tim Paine (c), Sean Abbott, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Cameron Green, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Moises Henriques, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Will Pucovski, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Mark Steketee, Mitchell Swepson, David Warner.

Australia T20 squad: Aaron Finch (c), Ashton Agar, Jason Behrendorff, Mitchell Marsh, Glenn Maxwell, Ben McDermott, Riley Meredith, Josh Philippe, Kane Richardson, Jhye Richardson, Daniel Sams, Tanveer Sangha, D’Arcy Short, Marcus Stoinis, Ashton Turner, Andrew Tye, Matthew Wade, Adam Zampa

I watched Tanveer Sangha play almost a full season of the BBL before I learned he was born in Sydney. He looks a very promising player.

 

[raptalia]

Meanwhile Cricket Australia have confirmed that Mahommed Siraj was racially abused at the SCG but have also confirmed that the six people who were asked to leave the SCG were cleared of racial abuse. Cricket Australia have issued a formal apology to the Indian team. There is an ongoing Venues NSW investigation but the NSW Police have finalised their investigation and have insufficient evidence to charge anyone.

You have to wonder if anyone is going to apologise to the six people who were ejected and had their faces posted all over the media? Pitch invaders and streakers are no longer shown on TV and the same should apply to crowd disturbances. Innocent people get labelled because the media feel compelled to show vision from which the public draws the wrong conclusion. You go for a day at the cricket, have a few beers get asked to leave and are labelled a racist by the media what more could you want?

CA confirms Indian cricketers were racially abused at SCG — but not by spectators filmed by the media

Cricket Australia investigators confirm Indian cricketers were racially abused during the third Test at the SCG but say they still do not know who was responsible.

www.abc.net.au

 

[philreich]

Phenomenal all round performance by Rashid Khan for Afghanistan overnight. They batted first against Ireland, and were in trouble at 7 for 163 before Rashid smashed 48 off 40 balls, to help boost the score to a respectable 9 for 266. He then took 4 for 29 off 9 overs, as the Irish were dismissed for 230. He's rapidly becoming a very good all rounder.

 

[FishingRick04]

Phenomenal all round performance by Rashid Khan for Afghanistan overnight. They batted first against Ireland, and were in trouble at 7 for 163 before Rashid smashed 48 off 40 balls, to help boost the score to a respectable 9 for 266. He then took 4 for 29 off 9 overs, as the Irish were dismissed for 230. He's rapidly becoming a very good all rounder.

Why isn’t he an Aussie yet so he can play for the redbacks and the Aussies?

 

[FishingRick04]

So Matthew Wade is dropped while Travis Head keeps his spot in the squad to tour South Africa. I didn't think that would happen. Trevor Hohns also talking up the chances of Alex Carey.

The Squads:


Australia Test squad: Tim Paine (c), Sean Abbott, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Cameron Green, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Moises Henriques, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Will Pucovski, Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, Mark Steketee, Mitchell Swepson, David Warner.

Australia T20 squad: Aaron Finch (c), Ashton Agar, Jason Behrendorff, Mitchell Marsh, Glenn Maxwell, Ben McDermott, Riley Meredith, Josh Philippe, Kane Richardson, Jhye Richardson, Daniel Sams, Tanveer Sangha, D’Arcy Short, Marcus Stoinis, Ashton Turner, Andrew Tye, Matthew Wade, Adam Zampa

I watched Tanveer Sangha play almost a full season of the BBL before I learned he was born in Sydney. He looks a very promising player.

when’s the last time two South Aussies played in the same test side? Phillips and Hogg?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

when’s the last time two South Aussies played in the same test side? Phillips and Hogg?

Depends what you call South Aussies? Hogg was from Victoria. Probably Lyon and Hughes early teens. Gillespie and Lehmann played a few tests tohether in the naughties.