Gym & Misc CrossFit

[Len Nicodemo]

Your last paragraph is complete and utter bullshit.
Injury rates are comparable to other gym pursuits (Powerlifting, bodybuilding, weightlifting) and are lower than what is reported in Zumba.
https://thebarbellphysio.com/truth-crossfit-injuries/

I said an excessive amount of injuries. And this is the case because the way it is structured and executed.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

They were dumbbell snatches, which are completely different to barbell snatches. Dumbbell snatches are quite simple technique wise.

If we were to eliminate any sport that causes fatigue you wouldn't have many left. You may want to research HIIT.

And beginners are not expected to do this. Everyone scales to their level of ability or fitness. I've been doing CrossFit for four years and still rarely do the workouts as prescribed. And I've never had an injury.

As I said in the OP, this thread is for those with a genuine interest in CrossFit. Not really looking to engage with those who simply want to bash it. So I'm not responding any more. There are enough threads for that already.

Are they? What under duress and fatigue? HIIT done properly does not subject the body to lifting weights whilst under fatigue and physical stress. Cross Fit does, and it combines complicated lifting patterns with a fatigued subject.

Fair enough on your point, i wont go on.

 

[Aeglos]

I said an excessive amount of injuries. And this is the case because the way it is structured and executed.

So excessive they’re the same or less than every other sport or physical activity?
Just because you said it doesn’t make it true.

 

[raskolnikov]

https://thebarbellphysio.com/truth-cr

 

[Len Nicodemo]

So excessive they’re the same or less than every other sport or physical activity?
Just because you said it doesn’t make it true.

Any injury on mass because of poorly constructed technique or class structure is excessive. FYI, i don't think that the way classes are conducted in commercial gymnasiums (not cross fit gyms) on the whole are very safe either. I have seen lots of people injured doing pump, spin, boxing circuits. As i said, any injury statistic that is caused by poor technique, coaching, or lack of knowledge is a statistic that is too high.

It's not about whether i think it's true or not, it's about what is out there and combating the problem by providing well educated and experienced professional's who can prescribe complicated exercises adequately. This topic is about Cross fit, that is what i am talking about.

 

[Aeglos]

Any injury on mass because of poorly constructed technique or class structure is excessive. FYI, i don't think that the way classes are conducted in commercial gymnasiums (not cross fit gyms) on the whole are very safe either. I have seen lots of people injured doing pump, spin, boxing circuits. As i said, any injury statistic that is caused by poor technique, coaching, or lack of knowledge is a statistic that is too high.

It's not about whether i think it's true or not, it's about what is out there and combating the problem by providing well educated and experienced professional's who can prescribe complicated exercises adequately. This topic is about Cross fit, that is what i am talking about.

I look forwards to your similarly critical views in the runnings, yoga, cycling, weight training, *insert activity here* threads.

 

[raskolnikov]

As long as there are uneducated trainers in the industry or ridiculously loose programming and execution, there’ll be injuries. Cross fit is copping it as it’s a cross fit thread.

Someone put up a WOD which was labelled STRENGTH but the exercises were descending one way from 20, and ascending the other from 1. Please explain to me the STRENGTH component there? That isn’t strength, that’s local muscular endurance. You are fatiguing a muscle group and repeating an exercise.

The protocols for strength training are grossly different. That’s what I mean by loose programming, it’s not science based, it just ‘looks cool’ and ‘sounds cool’. Even more ridiculous that this was posted in an Internet forum and any Tom, dick or Harry could read it and do it.

This is the exact issue the industry faces, oversaturation of content that lacks scientific principles.

Tell Tia-Clair Toomey or Matt Fraser that.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Tell Tia-Clair Toomey or Matt Fraser that.View attachment 609126View attachment 609128

What is your point? It is a still frame of some conditioned athletes in a still photo? There is exceptions to every sport in terms of the best of the best.

You haven't done anything unique there.

 

[saj_21]

They were dumbbell snatches, which are completely different to barbell snatches. Dumbbell snatches are quite simple technique wise.

If we were to eliminate any sport that causes fatigue you wouldn't have many left. You may want to research HIIT.

And beginners are not expected to do this. Everyone scales to their level of ability or fitness. I've been doing CrossFit for four years and still rarely do the workouts as prescribed. And I've never had an injury.

As I said in the OP, this thread is for those with a genuine interest in CrossFit. Not really looking to engage with those who simply want to bash it. So I'm not responding any more. There are enough threads for that already.

People who take up running and do to much to soon can develop shin splints. Therefore we should demonise running and discourage people from doing it.

 

[raskolnikov]

This work out was tough. There was a 60min cutoff and only one person made it, but that person is a freak. I got 5 muscle ups done before the time cutoff.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

People who take up running and do to much to soon can develop shin splints. Therefore we should demonise running and discourage people from doing it.

You’re missing my point. If you had a coach that programmed that into a schedule then they’d be incompetent. On the face of it running isn’t a dangerous sport if done correctly.

 

[raskolnikov]

You’re missing my point. If you had a coach that programmed that into a schedule then they’d be incompetent. On the face of it running isn’t a dangerous sport if done correctly.

Nor is CrossFit.

 

[M Malice]

Interesting discussion re crossfit, ran across these 2 videos, both sides of the argument. I sit on the technique and correct form is ideal side.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Interesting discussion re crossfit, ran across these 2 videos, both sides of the argument. I sit on the technique and correct form is ideal side.

Of course it’s ideal. It’s everything. From a exercise physiology perspective you can’t be expected to maintain appropriate form whilst under fatigue whilst completing Olympic based movements as conditioning exercises.

The workouts posted on this site by one of the pro Cross fit posters are dangerous in that they might be picked up and attempted by people who’ve got no idea how to do them and no basic exercise conditioning.

 

[M Malice]

Of course it’s ideal. It’s everything. From a exercise physiology perspective you can’t be expected to maintain appropriate form whilst under fatigue whilst completing Olympic based movements as conditioning exercises.

The workouts posted on this site by one of the pro Cross fit posters are dangerous in that they might be picked up and attempted by people who’ve got no idea how to do them and no basic exercise conditioning.

Are you a professional in the fitness/sports/injury rehab industry Len? You seem well versed on the subject.

Have I got it right that in your opinion there is nothing wrong with crossfit if it is done with form at the front of the mind.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Are you a professional in the fitness/sports/injury rehab industry Len? You seem well versed on the subject.

Have I got it right that in your opinion there is nothing wrong with crossfit if it is done with form at the front of the mind.

I’ve got undergraduate qualifications in exercise physiology and sports science.

Initially I’d argued that cross fit could be completed at elite levels by elite athletes, but then with more analysis of the principles of fatigue, repeat, fatigue, I became more sceptical of its place anywhere.

What tipped me over the edge was watching the cross fit games on TV and seeing the elite athletes employing seriously compromised form to complete their exercises.

People have to understand that completing these lifts are very complicated and take professional athletes a long time to master and perfect. They certainly don’t train to perfect the movements under more fatigue than required. When completing multi joint movements that require coordination and technique perfection, the last thing you want to be is fatigued.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen Personal Trainers do some horrendous things as well, I’ve seen major injuries incurred in basic gym classes; pump and Zumba for example. The industry as a whole has become so deregulated that you can go online and complete a ‘qualification’ really easily. You can then put together programs for people.

It’s become about money.

 

[raskolnikov]

Interesting discussion re crossfit, ran across these 2 videos, both sides of the argument. I sit on the technique and correct form is ideal side.

I've seen those before.

Of course correct form and technique are ideal, and at any decent CrossFit boxes you will see coaches at work, ensuring that correct technique and form are used.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

I've seen those before.

Of course correct form and technique are ideal, and at any decent CrossFit boxes you will see coaches at work, ensuring that correct technique and form are used.

What about correct programming?

 

[saj_21]

Can we just move on from the I’m right your wrong debate. This thread was started for people who enjoy CrossFit to discuss CrossFit, not to debates its merits. Minds aren’t going to be changed either way.

I’m pretty sure this is why the last thread went to s**t, raskolnikov started this thread to post work outs and discuss cross fit not to debate whether it’s safe or not.

Yes it may lead itself to a higher occurrence injuries as opposed to other forms of exercise, I would say that is down to operator error than the form of exercise itself.

You get morons in the gym with bad form and programming to. People in general getting all motivated and go from 0 to 100 in two weeks, get injured and then they lose motivation.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Can we just move on from the I’m right your wrong debate. This thread was started for people who enjoy CrossFit to discuss CrossFit, not to debates its merits. Minds aren’t going to be changed either way.

I’m pretty sure this is why the last thread went to s**t, raskolnikov started this thread to post work outs and discuss cross fit not to debate whether it’s safe or not.

Yes it may lead itself to a higher occurrence injuries as opposed to other forms of exercise, I would say that is down to operator error than the form of exercise itself.

You get morons in the gym with bad form and programming to. People in general getting all motivated and go from 0 to 100 in two weeks, get injured and then they lose motivation.

The issue with these workouts being posted is that they are open for anyone to access them and may facilitate injury due to the excessive nature of over fatigue through using complex movements.

Go ahead, discuss it, I’ll butt out, but I am telling people to perhaps start asking their trainers about programming when it comes to the routines that are devised and to ask why Olympic lifts are used as a conditioning tool which is not their purpose.

 

[raskolnikov]

The issue with these workouts being posted is that they are open for anyone to access them and may facilitate injury due to the excessive nature of over fatigue through using complex movements.

Go ahead, discuss it, I’ll butt out, but I am telling people to perhaps start asking their trainers about programming when it comes to the routines that are devised and to ask why Olympic lifts are used as a conditioning tool which is not their purpose.

I've said a few times that these workouts should not be done by beginners and scaled to everyone's ability.

 

[estibador]

raskolnikov is what this guy says about training having technique and strength components before the actual workout typical of all crossfit? If so, that's a better structure than I pictured.

I've never tried crossfit so I don't have much of an opinion other than to say anything that gets people exercising is a good thing, even if it's not perfect, program-wise.

 

[saj_21]

The issue with these workouts being posted is that they are open for anyone to access them and may facilitate injury due to the excessive nature of over fatigue through using complex movements.

Go ahead, discuss it, I’ll butt out, but I am telling people to perhaps start asking their trainers about programming when it comes to the routines that are devised and to ask why Olympic lifts are used as a conditioning tool which is not their purpose.

That is the fault of the person undertaking the exercise not the poster on here posting their workout.

I watch Eddie hall lift 100kg DBs, doesn’t mean I go and try it. I see Cameron Haines go trail running for 40miles doesn’t mean I go and try it.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

I've said a few times that these workouts should not be done by beginners and scaled to everyone's ability.

Even for an advanced athlete the structure of this workout is problematic. What is the objective of a workout like this? Advanced athletes can be susceptible to injury by completing conditioning movements that fatigue the body then introducing strength based movements. The strength based movement (snatch for example) isn’t done to repetitions, it’s done in an explosive anaerobic manner to display physical power. The complexities are so great to complete a snatch that I’d be advising against any kind of fatiguing element prior and certainly wouldn’t be completing that exercise as a conditioning component.

 

[estibador]

Every single person should follow a program!

In an ideal world yes, but in our age of rising inactivity and obesity if crossfit gets someone into fitness who wouldn't otherwise be off the couch then it's a net positive. Motivating people to change is a huge part of the battle.

As you've touched on, the only real issue I have with crossfit (from what I know about it) is the concept of racing to perform AMRAPs in a certain time. But I'm sure there's some good crossfit trainers out there who would stress form over speed in those sets.