Crowd behaviour at Essendon games

[MaddAdam]

When there are large amounts of Sydney supporters being targeted and even threatened over it, then it might be relevant. You don't care, that's fine, then don't comment.

Threatened? As in with physical violence? Has that happened at Essendon games over the drug stuff? That's hugely out of order if so.

 

[PP34]

They can get ****ed. The amount of abuse they've dished out over the years to Carlton fans over the salary cap saga is huge. For them to cry when they get done for cheating on a much worse level and expect fans to go easy on them is nonsense.

 

[Donakebab]

Threatened? As in with physical violence? Has that happened at Essendon games over the drug stuff? That's hugely out of order if so.

Personally seen it happen. Opposition supporter getting overly lippy while sitting in the Essendon members, finally being told to sit down and give it a rest after incessantly ranting for over half the game. Didn't take it well and started to push, shove and yell threats. End result undoubtedly caused by too much piss and very well could have happened without the saga, but it definitely was the catalyst in this case.

 

[MaddAdam]

They can get stuffed. The amount of abuse they've dished out over the years to Carlton fans over the salary cap saga is huge. For them to cry when they get done for cheating on a much worse level and expect fans to go easy on them is nonsense.

I was actually thinking about that before, trying to recall if I'd ever paid out on the Blues at a game over that.

But I was overseas when it happened and for the years when it was still fresh, so I don't really know.

 

[PP34]

I was actually thinking about that before, trying to recall if I'd ever paid out on the Blues at a game over that.

But I was overseas when it happened and for the years when it was still fresh, so I don't really know.

It coincide with our spoons so that became the major focus for most opposition fans. But it still was there. Stuff like that created a strong resentment of fans like Essendon ones growing up as a kid.

Hard to feel sorry for them in my case.

 

[MaddAdam]

Personally seen it happen. Opposition supporter getting overly lippy while sitting in the Essendon members, finally being told to sit down and give it a rest after incessantly ranting for over half the game. Didn't take it well and started to push, shove and yell threats. End result undoubtedly caused by too much piss and very well could have happened without the saga, but it definitely was the catalyst in this case.

Jeez, what a frigging moron. If you're sitting in someone else's members, you pay some respect.

I remember sitting smack bang in the middle of the Footscray members stand out at the Western Oval in 94 when Carey went utterly apeshit and destroyed them with some of the finest footy ever played. And I was sitting there golf clapping barely able to contain my glee, but contain it I did.

This individual sounds like a tool of the highest order.

 

[MaddAdam]

It coincide with our spoons so that became the major focus for most opposition fans. But it still was there. Stuff like that created a strong resentment of fans like Essendon ones growing up as a kid.

Hard to feel sorry for them in my case.

Again though, Carlton pre nakba was very much like Essendon - "we're Carlton, f*&k the rest" and dished it royally to other teams - so when the opportunity came of course opposition supporters were queuing up to return the favour with plenty of interest.

 

[PP34]

Again though, Carlton pre nakba was very much like Essendon - "we're Carlton, f*&k the rest" and dished it royally to other teams - so when the opportunity came of course opposition supporters were queuing up to return the favour with plenty of interest.

Yeah not disagreeing with what they did, just summing up my first few years as a footy fan (2001-2004) which were probably some of the worst any young fan could go through.

 

[blackcat]

And everyone likes to see the underdog do well. I hate Carlton but I was barracking hard for them last night.

fukc, I tipped Carlton, and was barracking for them, and I dont think in an expedient way, not in a richmond raison d'etre bdsm sado masochism torture. SSDD, this season. As long as they can wheel out the club song a dozen times, and Dusty does a dozen dont argues alliterationz, then I will be content. It has replaced the Micks as the religion for the self-flagellators. like masturbation, but mental onanism

 

[MaddAdam]

Yeah not disagreeing with what they did, just summing up my first few years as a footy fan (2001-2004) which were probably some of the worst any young fan could go through.

Yep, don't deny that. That said, it can be good to have that kind of experience, toughens you up.

The "merger/relocate" stuff doesn't bother me now because its frankly bullshit, just not going to happen - North have almost 40k members by Rd1 and are shooting for a not unrealistic 50k.

But a while back, it was a very real prospect so the jibes did hurt after a while.

 

[DERO]

I believe, may be wrong though, it is one of these things where some fans came up with the idea and pitched it and now it has club support.

This has been one of the more interesting elements of the saga - a fair bit of fan/club crossover.

Dero - who I rate as one of the most interesting Essendon supporters on all this - would be able to tell us more - if they want to - about some of the fan/club interaction on crowd events.

Am I right Dero in rrecalling you had a fair bit to do with the original #standbyhird stuff?

As someone who has had a bit to do with the club and was involved with getting the "North Welcomes Refugees" banner up for the Richmond final I have respect for fans who do put their money where their mouth is (if you know what I mean) on stuff like this.

I did. The groundswell of support was ridiculous at the time. It also needs to be said that it was in response to the media storm early in the saga before the ASADA investigation had even begun. Many who helped out might be reluctant to do so now in light of what has transpired since but at the time it was absolutely the right thing to do. I helped distribute the banners on the day. Nick and In particular, Simeon from bomberBlitz did the majority of the leg work... Design, delivery (Simeon had to hire a car and ship them from QLD personally)
I believe over $6k was raised in a matter of days. it was totally fan based initiative. I think somewhere around 6000 420 GSM placards were produced.
#backourboys was club based and relied on the fans to attach a placard to every seat in Ettihad stadium. EFC went cheap... Just saying.
I'd back our boys again but I would be less inclined to stand by Hird...

 

[dave10]

Sorry, didn't mean to insult, and re-reading my post it does seem very harsh. Of course you're not irrelevant.

But the public perception of Essendon and it's fans is based on what we see. And from what outsiders see, we've seen nothing but the bad stuff. When i say irrelevant, i mean from a perception point of view. If the club and vocal minority are going to keep this whole arrogant "We are Essendon, we've done nothing wrong, standbyhird" approach going, then you're going to be tarred with the same brush. If you don't actively differentiate yourself from that, then people will simply assume you're part of it.

Unfortunately the vocal minority get the greatest airtime and unfortunately this creates a perception that isn't shared by the majority of Essenfon supporters.

A great example of how Essendon / Essendon supporters are in my opinion unfairly judged by the football world is with regard to the upcoming events surrounding the round 2 home match at the G.

2 weeks ago Essendon announced a "Make A Stand" event for this match. The intent from the clubs perspective is to use this occasion to get the entire Essendon family together and make a stand for the clubs future. All supporters, administrators, past players (yes James Hird is a past player). It's about celebrating the clubs history and using this event to encourage all Essendon people to focus on the future. Essendon is 143 years old and it's about moving forward. Nothing more. This day marks the start of the new Essendon era. Simple.

At the same time, an organic fan led walk to the G will take place to further create a symbol of solidarity by past players, administrators, celebrities, fans and anyone else who lives Essendon. Its intent is to create a symbol of strength and unity for Essendons future by bringing Essendon people together for the walk. And yes there's also the intention to consider the plight of the '34' concurrently and let them know they're in their thoughts..

However aspects of media and footy community at large decided to take this as an act of defiance against the football world, a sort of 'up yours' to clean sport or a symbolic gesture of support for doping and dopers. An opportunity to showcase James Hird with his middle finger raised in salute at the front of the walk or to the MCC members..

The Herald Sun article headline and first paragraph was inflammatory and unfortunate. It was a journos loose take on the event rather than a true representation of the ambition of the day from the clubs perspective. The media know how to sell papers and drive listenership and this drives the agenda and angle of discussion. As is the way, the footy world read only the headline and first paragraph and ran with it as the story. It quickly became "Essendon to make a stand against the football world".

Then enter Dave Culbert, a person who clearly has a great dislike of Essendon (which is fine). He showed that his pent up anger is clouding his ability to think clearly and see things for what they actually are. Despite Xavier Campbell's eloquent and I thought quite clear communication of the intention of these events on SEN and 3AW, many in the media wanted to misrepresent his message. But this ended up being all about James Hird again! You can't win.

The truth is, unfortunately for Essendon and its fans the footy world will continue to look for ways to misconstrue the intended message and create an inaccurate perception of reality. Many don't want Essendon to move on just yet. That's fine.

At least understand that Essendon and its stakeholders certainly want to move on and start a new era. Now if the football world won't let us 'make a stand' for the FUTURE of this great club then that's the way it goes.

 

[DERO]

Unfortunately the vocal minority get the greatest airtime and unfortunately this creates a perception that isn't shared by the majority of Essenfon supporters.

A great example of how Essendon / Essendon supporters are in my opinion unfairly judged by the football world is with regard to the upcoming events surrounding the round 2 home match at the G.

2 weeks ago Essendon announced a "Make A Stand" event for this match. The intent from the clubs perspective is to use this occasion to get the entire Essendon family together and make a stand for the clubs future. All supporters, administrators, past players (yes James Hird is a past player). It's about celebrating the clubs history and using this event to encourage all Essendon people to focus on the future. Essendon is 143 years old and it's about moving forward. Nothing more. This day marks the start of the new Essendon era. Simple.

At the same time, an organic fan led walk to the G will take place to further create a symbol of solidarity by past players, administrators, celebrities, fans and anyone else who lives Essendon. Its intent is to create a symbol of strength and unity for Essendons future by bringing Essendon people together for the walk. And yes there's also the intention to consider the plight of the '34' concurrently and let them know they're in their thoughts..

However aspects of media and footy community at large decided to take this as an act of defiance against the football world, a sort of 'up yours' to clean sport or a symbolic gesture of support for doping and dopers. An opportunity to showcase James Hird with his middle finger raised in salute at the front of the walk or to the MCC members..

The Herald Sun article headline and first paragraph was inflammatory and unfortunate. It was a journos loose take on the event rather than a true representation of the ambition of the day from the clubs perspective. The media know how to sell papers and drive listenership and this drives the agenda and angle of discussion. As is the way, the footy world read only the headline and first paragraph and ran with it as the story. It quickly became "Essendon to make a stand against the football world".

Then enter Dave Culbert, a person who clearly has a great dislike of Essendon (which is fine). He showed that his pent up anger is clouding his ability to think clearly and see things for what they actually are. Despite Xavier Campbell's eloquent and I thought quite clear communication of the intention of these events on SEN and 3AW, many in the media wanted to misrepresent his message. But this ended up being all about James Hird again! You can't win.

The truth is, unfortunately for Essendon and its fans the footy world will continue to look for ways to misconstrue the intended message and create an inaccurate perception of reality. Many don't want Essendon to move on just yet. That's fine.

At least understand that Essendon and its stakeholders certainly want to move on and start a new era. Now if the football world won't let us 'make a stand' for the FUTURE of this great club then that's the way it goes.

The Essendon March is a bit like booing Adam Goodes. Your intention can easily be misconstrued, so you are probably better off not doing it. I'd never boo Adam Goodes FWIW.
I liked the classy way that X Man kept calm while Colbert yapped at him as well. He is a good operator.

 

[MaddAdam]

I did. The groundswell of support was ridiculous at the time. It also needs to be said that it was in response to the media storm early in the saga before the ASADA investigation had even begun. Many who helped out might be reluctant to do so now in light of what has transpired since but at the time it was absolutely the right thing to do. I helped distribute the banners on the day. Nick and In particular, Simeon from bomberBlitz did the majority of the leg work... Design, delivery (Simeon had to hire a car and ship them from QLD personally)
I believe over $6k was raised in a matter of days. it was totally fan based initiative. I think somewhere around 6000 420 GSM placards were produced.
#backourboys was club based and relied on the fans to attach a placard to every seat in Ettihad stadium. EFC went cheap... Just saying.
I'd back our boys again but I would be less inclined to stand by Hird...

Cheers for the response.

I think your final line in that is the best summation I've seen of how many Essendon supporters must feel.

Its also important to recall, as you do here, that the saga had so many twists and has been going so long, that a lot of what people point to as an example of "unrepentant behaviour" by Essendon fans, and thus justification to stick the boot in now, actually occurred well before even Show Cause notices had arrived.

Out of interest, did you let the club know you were planning the #standbyhird stuff? As I recall, they got on board, certainly players did with the Tweets.

 

[DERO]

Cheers for the response.

I think your final line in that is the best summation I've seen of how many Essendon supporters must feel.

Its also important to recall, as you do here, that the saga had so many twists and has been going so long, that a lot of what people point to as an example of "unrepentant behaviour" by Essendon fans, and thus justification to stick the boot in now, actually occurred well before even Show Cause notices had arrived.

Out of interest, did you let the club know you were planning the #standbyhird stuff? As I recall, they got on board, certainly players did with the Tweets.

The club had very little to do with it. It had to be cleared with Ettihad to make sure everything would be kosher...
There was some publicity in the lead-up with a small article appearing in the Age (from a writer from the business section!).
The players jumped on board after. Everyone was backing Hird at that point because we felt hardline by by the fairly one-sided media reporting. For example Gerard Healy making claims that GHRP-6 was being injected into our players (never proven by the way) and people like Caroline Wilson suggesting that Hird should "fall on his sword" without any evidence being made public... Purely rumour and innuendo up until much later and the facts started to trickle out.

 

[replicant]

Unfortunately the vocal minority get the greatest airtime and unfortunately this creates a perception that isn't shared by the majority of Essenfon supporters.

A great example of how Essendon / Essendon supporters are in my opinion unfairly judged by the football world is with regard to the upcoming events surrounding the round 2 home match at the G.

2 weeks ago Essendon announced a "Make A Stand" event for this match. The intent from the clubs perspective is to use this occasion to get the entire Essendon family together and make a stand for the clubs future. All supporters, administrators, past players (yes James Hird is a past player). It's about celebrating the clubs history and using this event to encourage all Essendon people to focus on the future. Essendon is 143 years old and it's about moving forward. Nothing more. This day marks the start of the new Essendon era. Simple.

At the same time, an organic fan led walk to the G will take place to further create a symbol of solidarity by past players, administrators, celebrities, fans and anyone else who lives Essendon. Its intent is to create a symbol of strength and unity for Essendons future by bringing Essendon people together for the walk. And yes there's also the intention to consider the plight of the '34' concurrently and let them know they're in their thoughts..

However aspects of media and footy community at large decided to take this as an act of defiance against the football world, a sort of 'up yours' to clean sport or a symbolic gesture of support for doping and dopers. An opportunity to showcase James Hird with his middle finger raised in salute at the front of the walk or to the MCC members..

The Herald Sun article headline and first paragraph was inflammatory and unfortunate. It was a journos loose take on the event rather than a true representation of the ambition of the day from the clubs perspective. The media know how to sell papers and drive listenership and this drives the agenda and angle of discussion. As is the way, the footy world read only the headline and first paragraph and ran with it as the story. It quickly became "Essendon to make a stand against the football world".

Then enter Dave Culbert, a person who clearly has a great dislike of Essendon (which is fine). He showed that his pent up anger is clouding his ability to think clearly and see things for what they actually are. Despite Xavier Campbell's eloquent and I thought quite clear communication of the intention of these events on SEN and 3AW, many in the media wanted to misrepresent his message. But this ended up being all about James Hird again! You can't win.

The truth is, unfortunately for Essendon and its fans the footy world will continue to look for ways to misconstrue the intended message and create an inaccurate perception of reality. Many don't want Essendon to move on just yet. That's fine.

At least understand that Essendon and its stakeholders certainly want to move on and start a new era. Now if the football world won't let us 'make a stand' for the FUTURE of this great club then that's the way it goes.

I'm sure the marchers in the Orange Walks thought the same. They were just celebrating their history, or at least that's how they publicly justifed them. (No I'm not equating Irish history with Essendon, it's just a comparison for hypothetical sake). Unfortunately everyone else saw it as deliberately provocative and unsavoury.

The fact that Hird might be there IS giving the middle finger to the rest of the AFL, intentional or not. It's a statement "We don't care that we doped, Hird was in charge and has taken no responsibility, and his actions have dragged the comp through the mud for four years (and counting)." Having the banned players there is saying "We don't care that you are convicted drug cheats. So what if you and the club tried to cheat? So what if Jobe is clinging on to his tainted Brownlow? That doesn't matter, we're behind you anyway."

You really can't see that to many people this march basically symbolises that the club condones everything that happened? You can't see the arrogance of that and how it would annoy the fans of other clubs?

No matter how you see the march, it was only ever going to be interpreted as "F*** you! Sorry, not sorry!" to the rest of the comp. It's arrogant and foolish, and will do nothing except incite the troublemakers in the crowd.

 

[Slartibartfast]

The club had very little to do with it. It had to be cleared with Ettihad to make sure everything would be kosher...
There was some publicity in the lead-up with a small article appearing in the Age (from a writer from the business section!).
The players jumped on board after. Everyone was backing Hird at that point because we felt hardline by by the fairly one-sided media reporting. For example Gerard Healy making claims that GHRP-6 was being injected into our players (never proven by the way) and people like Caroline Wilson suggesting that Hird should "fall on his sword" without any evidence being made public... Purely rumour and innuendo up until much later and the facts started to trickle out.

At that stage I think a lot more was known in the inner sanctums of the AFL and media. Remember the EFC had been pumping out lawyers threats to the media trying to keep a lid on it.
I look at what Greg Swan said early on, he is a bloke who does not court publicity . When he came out and used the word cheat he did not base that on rumour or suspicion , he KNEW something for fact.

 

[dave10]

I'm sure the marchers in the Orange Walks thought the same. They were just celebrating their history, or at least that's how they publicly justifed them. (No I'm not equating Irish history with Essendon, it's just a comparison for hypothetical sake). Unfortunately everyone else saw it as deliberately provocative and unsavoury.

The fact that Hird might be there IS giving the middle finger to the rest of the AFL, intentional or not. It's a statement "We don't care that we doped, Hird was in charge and has taken no responsibility, and his actions have dragged the comp through the mud for four years (and counting)." Having the banned players there is saying "We don't care that you are convicted drug cheats. So what if you and the club tried to cheat? So what if Jobe is clinging on to his tainted Brownlow? That doesn't matter, we're behind you anyway."

You really can't see that to many people this march basically symbolises that the club condones everything that happened? You can't see the arrogance of that and how it would annoy the fans of other clubs?

No matter how you see the march, it was only ever going to be interpreted as "F*** you! Sorry, not sorry!" to the rest of the comp. It's arrogant and foolish, and will do nothing except incite the troublemakers in the crowd.

Agree to disagree. My view is that's how you want to view it which is a pity because that's not the clubs intention. Essendon want to move on. It needs to move on. It needs everyone Essendon as one to do so. To be frank, I suggest anything Essendon do to demonstrate unity and solidarity would be taken in distaste which leads me to suggest the football world don't want Essendon to move on.

It will just have to forge agead.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

They can get stuffed. The amount of abuse they've dished out over the years to Carlton fans over the salary cap saga is huge. For them to cry when they get done for cheating on a much worse level and expect fans to go easy on them is nonsense.

Yeah and everyone seems to forget they were also done for salary cap breaches before us.
The humiliation for them will never be complete, and I hope they're still copping it in 20 years

 

[DERO]

At that stage I think a lot more was known in the inner sanctums of the AFL and media. Remember the EFC had been pumping out lawyers threats to the media trying to keep a lid on it.
I look at what Greg Swan said early on, he is a bloke who does not court publicity . When he came out and used the word cheat he did not base that on rumour or suspicion , he KNEW something for fact.

Greg Swan is interviewed regularly on SEN.

 

[Andrew Mc]

To be frank, I suggest anything Essendon do to demonstrate unity and solidarity would be taken in distaste which leads me to suggest the football world don't want Essendon to move on.

The average football fan won't see Essendon as any different until they have the balls to admit their faults. At this point in time, Essendon, both club and the 34 players just want it to go away without that happening. It won't.

 

[Coldacre]

Yeah it does.

Personally I can't wait to go to the G and find Essendon supporters smaller than me to hang shit on. That's part of the fun.

but you'll only ever be a Melbourne supporter.

the only thing that is worse than being universally hated is being completely irrelevant.

 

[Coldacre]

And they're marching from Fed square to the G?

What on earth are they hoping to achieve other than to look like dickheads?

we're doing it as an act of solidarity, an act of pride and to piss other supporters off. the ones who said that we'd have no members by 2015.

glad to see that it's worked xxx

 

[Bard]

but you'll only ever be a Melbourne supporter.

the only thing that is worse than being universally hated is being completely irrelevant.

You can't be seriously, surely? That's half the fun!

 

[Spook]

I will be cheering and clapping and admiring Essendons no 11, David Zaharakis. He said NO to the 'regime'. He said I will not have any needles. The real reason why is only known to him but I say bullishit to the "I don't like needles" shit because everyone doesn't like needles ffs.
He had the balls to say no to cheating and at the same time stuck by his club and team mates with out telling lies.
What he did prove is that you don't have to tow the line and do as your told, Zaharakis deserves some credit, I have respect for him.