Crows reserve side

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Is it possible that dollars are the motivating factor in the Port Magpies/Power amalgamation decision?
Taking all of the emotion out of it, the factor that is a plus for the Power apparently is getting the Prince of Wales Hotel in the deal. The Magpies don't have the cash to renovate it to bring it up to or past the standard of the local competition, that goes without saying. But the Power don't have that sort of cash either. What will it take $2M, $3M or $4M?

The Power surely wouldn't find it easy to borrow that sort of money based on their lack of profitability and because (as my Port friends have led me to believe) there is already significant debt against the hotel.

Is a part of this proposal that the SANFL provides the cash to do it up or alternatively guarantees a loan to provide the funds? Given the recent history with Collingwood's huge losses on hotel ventures there is no guarantee that this move will be successful, and the SANFL clubs would have to think long and hard about such a deal because even a guarantee may end up with them having to put the money in.

Absolutely nothing has been said publicly about this aspect, but to me it would be crucial.

Allowing the Magpies to go under if the Power could raise the capital themselves to renovate and operate the hotel would just be vindictiveness I think.

But refusing to get involved in the provision of more long term debt for the Power would simply be a business decision.

Does anyone know anything?

You are right this is the real reason, I mentioned on the Port board a few weeks ago that a friend of mine knows someone in the know at Port and said the push behind the merger was all about the PAFC getting control of POW hotel.

If the magpies have to sell their lease then the Power will have no interest merging with them and will let them die.

 

[Papa G]

You are right this is the real reason, I mentioned on the Port board a few weeks ago that a friend of mine knows someone in the know at Port and said the push behind the merger was all about the PAFC getting control of POW hotel.

If the magpies have to sell their lease then the Power will have no interest merging with them and will let them die.

I thought this was public knowledge and a statement was put out by Haysman last week confirming it.

 

[tribey]

I thought this was public knowledge and a statement was put out by Haysman last week confirming it.

Yeah, this is the only reason from the PAFC perspective. The PoW has $1.6m in equity give or take, plus x amount of pokies licences. If Port take it on they get to utilise that equity to revamp the hotel and/or acquire another one to move the pokies out of The Port Club into a higher density area = $$$$$ = financial security = everybody wins.

Too much has been made of the 'Power reserves team' rumour and the identity stuff. Irrelevant.

 

[tribey]

Your Logic - Save Port Magpies at the expense of the other 8 clubs in the competition.

How so? The PAMFC still make for one of the biggest crowd draws in the competition. The other 8 clubs benefit from this. Moreover, the PAFC (Power) are essentially acting as an administrator covering the PAMFC's financial woes, thus saving the SANFL from either having to do so, or face losing one of its stronger clubs/fanbases.

Your Logic - A SANFL club aligned to an AFL club does not have an advantage over its SANFL rival clubs, even though they have more assets, more revenue, better people, better facilities.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

If the merger goes ahead the financials will be fully audited to make sure the Magpies are receiving money commensurate to their income/membership. As for your argument regarding the better facilities, the Magpies have been back at Alberton for years. The players use the facilities under the Fos Williams Stand while using the pool etc in the ASHQ when the Power players are absent. Nothing changes.

As for "more revenue, better people, more assets" - there's a club called Central District that has 3 green houses at the top of the brewery chimney which will soon become a red hotel.

Even if the Magpies can regain some of their previous strength with slimlined administration costs (releasing the HQ on Port Road, etc) and a reunified supporter base, any counterbalance whatsoever to Centrals' hegemony should be welcomed, not shunned.

 

[Cap]

Yeah, this is the only reason from the PAFC perspective. The PoW has $1.6m in equity give or take, plus x amount of pokies licences. If Port take it on they get to utilise that equity to revamp the hotel and/or acquire another one to move the pokies out of The Port Club into a higher density area = $$$$$ = financial security = everybody wins.

Too much has been made of the 'Power reserves team' rumour and the identity stuff. Irrelevant.

Perhaps we should make them buy it at an arms length transaction then allow for the merger. Even the Crows should be concerned about the Power getting a free kick with off field revenues.

 

[tribey]

Perhaps we should make them buy it at an arms length transaction then allow for the merger. Even the Crows should be concerned about the Power getting a free kick with off field revenues.

It depends on how you view it.

Everyone is concerned about the SANFL and its clubs subsidising the Power with 'handouts'. Everyone is concerned about the SANFL and its clubs subsidising the Magpies with handouts.

This move will alleviate both concerns by improving and securing the finances of both clubs for both the short and long term.

On your last point, why would the Crows care? They've got enough liquid assets to buy and sell a small island nation regardless.

 

[brucetiki]

Did we just wake up in 1996 this morning? Centrals and their pokie-loving progeny have just spent the last ten years butt-f***ing the league, with no end in sight, and you're worried about what effects a merger of the two Port Adelaide businesses is going to have? If you really care that much, how about you petition the SANFL to create another club to encroach on the Dogs' area in the North - really mess them up, you know, West Torrens style.

My have the tables turned. I wondered if the Port Magpies had dominated this decade whether you'd be making the same comments.

 

[Cap]

It depends on how you view it.

Everyone is concerned about the SANFL and its clubs subsidising the Power with 'handouts'. Everyone is concerned about the SANFL and its clubs subsidising the Magpies with handouts.

This move will alleviate both concerns by improving and securing the finances of both clubs for both the short and long term.

On your last point, why would the Crows care? They've got enough liquid assets to buy and sell a small island nation regardless.

why wouldn't they care. I would hope Triggy would ensure that the Power never ever get a free kick and have to work extremely hard for everything.

Its the same with any business who competes with another.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

How so? The PAMFC still make for one of the biggest crowd draws in the competition. The other 8 clubs benefit from this. Moreover, the PAFC (Power) are essentially acting as an administrator covering the PAMFC's financial woes, thus saving the SANFL from either having to do so, or face losing one of its stronger clubs/fanbases.



The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

If the merger goes ahead the financials will be fully audited to make sure the Magpies are receiving money commensurate to their income/membership. As for your argument regarding the better facilities, the Magpies have been back at Alberton for years. The players use the facilities under the Fos Williams Stand while using the pool etc in the ASHQ when the Power players are absent. Nothing changes.

As for "more revenue, better people, more assets" - there's a club called Central District that has 3 green houses at the top of the brewery chimney which will soon become a red hotel.

Even if the Magpies can regain some of their previous strength with slimlined administration costs (releasing the HQ on Port Road, etc) and a reunified supporter base, any counterbalance whatsoever to Centrals' hegemony should be welcomed, not shunned.

I've seen some bizarre arguments from Port supporters over the last few weeks but this is a beauty. C'mon you can't be serious. Why should Centrals be disadvantaged when they built their hegemony on quality management, quality recruiting and smart investing. If anything, this should be the main reason why the merger should not go ahead. If I were Centrals I would be extremely unhappy that the SANFL commission is going to give one of their main rivals a massive leg up.

Just out of interest would you be happy with a Centrals/Crows alliance?

 

[birdmanptr]

How so? The PAMFC still make for one of the biggest crowd draws in the competition. The other 8 clubs benefit from this. Moreover, the PAFC (Power) are essentially acting as an administrator covering the PAMFC's financial woes, thus saving the SANFL from either having to do so, or face losing one of its stronger clubs/fanbases.



The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

If the merger goes ahead the financials will be fully audited to make sure the Magpies are receiving money commensurate to their income/membership. As for your argument regarding the better facilities, the Magpies have been back at Alberton for years. The players use the facilities under the Fos Williams Stand while using the pool etc in the ASHQ when the Power players are absent. Nothing changes.

As for "more revenue, better people, more assets" - there's a club called Central District that has 3 green houses at the top of the brewery chimney which will soon become a red hotel.

Even if the Magpies can regain some of their previous strength with slimlined administration costs (releasing the HQ on Port Road, etc) and a reunified supporter base, any counterbalance whatsoever to Centrals' hegemony should be welcomed, not shunned.

So where do you stand on all this do you want the SANFL one to stay or fold

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

My have the tables turned. I wondered if the Port Magpies had dominated this decade whether you'd be making the same comments.

Of course they wouldn't. They couldn't care less about SA footy its all about me, me, me. Can you imagine the outcry from Port supporters if before all this Magpies/Power merger talk, Centrals said they were going to form an alliance with the AFC. Port supporters would have been crying loudest.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Perhaps we should make them buy it at an arms length transaction then allow for the merger. Even the Crows should be concerned about the Power getting a free kick with off field revenues.

This has been really understated. If the merger goes ahead the AFC should be asking the SANFL commission for a similar handout.

 

[Alex99]

This has been really understated. If the merger goes ahead the AFC should be asking the SANFL commission for a similar handout.

Why? So we can give it straight back to them in 9 months time when we have an increased surplus. What will that achieve?

It's not like we ever want for anything. What ever we want, we get.

 

[Papa G]

This has been really understated. If the merger goes ahead the AFC should be asking the SANFL commission for a similar handout.

So the AFC have never been given stuff that Port haven't? Where's our Taj Mahal and the land to build it on?

 

[tribey]

why wouldn't they care. I would hope Triggy would ensure that the Power never ever get a free kick and have to work extremely hard for everything.

Its the same with any business who competes with another.

Port Adelaide's financial security is in the Crows' and the SANFL's best interests, given both clubs are seen as 'investments' by the SAFC.

If this puts to bed any perception/reality that the Crows are bankrolling the two Port Adelaides (SANFL 'reinvestment' to the tune of $2m in 2009) by ensuring both are financially sound under their own steam, how could Trigg possibly see this as negative?

I've seen some bizarre arguments from Port supporters over the last few weeks but this is a beauty. C'mon you can't be serious. Why should Centrals be disadvantaged when they built their hegemony on quality management, quality recruiting and smart investing. If anything, this should be the main reason why the merger should not go ahead. If I were Centrals I would be extremely unhappy that the SANFL commission is going to give one of their main rivals a massive leg up.

And the Port Adelaide Magpies lost their hegemony due to a conscious handicapping by the other SANFL clubs when the Port Adelaide Football Club joined the AFL due to a perception that a unified, AFL-rich PAFC would channel its surplus funds into ensuring the Magpies won each and every year with bells on.

D-I-V-O-R-C-E!

So gone was the supporter base, gone was the spiritual home and social club revenue (forbidden to all but play at Alberton) and gone was the $800k given to them by the PAFC merely in order to set up and continue elsewhere as ordered by the SA Football Commission.

This is what this merger is all about. Righting the wrongs of the 1995/96 setup which clearly has not worked.

Now you can look at this one of two ways.

The overly negative perception that the Magpies will be rejuvenated off the back of millions in AFL revenue and will crush the league like they used to, or the more realistic perception that shorn of needless administrative costs like the offices on Port Road, extra staffing costs and debt servicing on the PoW Hotel, the club can set about utilising its power relative to its strong membership and attendance numbers and simply be a healthy, competitive club again.

This isn't intended to 'disadvantage' Centrals as you put it.

My point was that onfield, a healthy Magpies can give the SANFL a further boost by providing it with another club with the potential to challenge the monotony of the Bulldogs winning it every year, which for the good of the league can only be a good thing.

Off-field the obvious advantage is that the Power and not the SANFL essentially act as the Magpies' creditor and the other 8 clubs can continue to enjoy the attendance spikes they receive when the Magpies come to visit.

Bottom line, the very thing you and the likes of the North Adelaide board fear - an all-powerful moneybags club ruling the league with an iron fist year-in year-out - is already happening and has happened for the past decade.

So where do you stand on all this do you want the SANFL one to stay or fold

I have always said that if the PAMFC relinquished their claims to the joint history or reunified under the one PAFC banner I would buy a membership tomorrow.

 

[malph]

why wouldn't they care. I would hope Triggy would ensure that the Power never ever get a free kick and have to work extremely hard for everything.

Its the same with any business who competes with another.

They are not always in competition with each other.

My have the tables turned. I wondered if the Port Magpies had dominated this decade whether you'd be making the same comments.

Why would I make comment about Central Districts' domination if the PAMFC had played in ten straight grand finals?

Of course they wouldn't. They couldn't care less about SA footy its all about me, me, me. Can you imagine the outcry from Port supporters if before all this Magpies/Power merger talk, Centrals said they were going to form an alliance with the AFC. Port supporters would have been crying loudest.

What kind of alliance? In any case, I doubt that even you believe these two scenarios are comparable. Feel free to construct a more robust straw man, though.

This has been really understated. If the merger goes ahead the AFC should be asking the SANFL commission for a similar handout.

So, are you more worried about what the merger will do to the SANFL, or what it will do for the Power?

 

[Alex99]

So the AFC have never been given stuff that Port haven't? Where's our Taj Mahal and the land to build it on?

Queens street, alberton.

How much did the port Adelaide football club pay the port Adelaide/enfield council for the land?

Oh right. You pay rent on that land, well so go we. It's part of the redistribution fee we pay the SANFL.

 

[Papa G]

Queens street, alberton.

How much did the port Adelaide football club pay the port Adelaide/enfield council for the land?

Oh right. You pay rent on that land, well so go we. It's part of the redistribution fee we pay the SANFL.

Longish Bow drawn

 

[Alex99]

Longish Bow drawn

So how much and when did you pay for the land then?

Or was it a gift?

 

[Papa G]

So how much and when did you pay for the land then?

Or was it a gift?

We didn't, as you said we rent it off the council. A council that did not pay for the clubrooms, gymnasium, museum etc.

How much did the Crows pay for the land at Footbal Park. Is there some sort of rental agreement in place there? Isn't it SANFL owned land? Did they let you build on it for free and indeed assist you in the building of the Taj Mahal? They did no such thing for Port. Port should be looking for compensation.

 

[Vader]

We didn't, as you said we rent it off the council. A council that did not pay for the clubrooms, gymnasium, museum etc.

How much did the Crows pay for the land at Footbal Park. Is there some sort of rental agreement in place there? Isn't it SANFL owned land? Did they let you build on it for free and indeed assist you in the building of the Taj Mahal? They did no such thing for Port. Port should be looking for compensation.

Port got just as much financial assistance when you built your current training facility at Alberton.

 

[birdmanptr]

Port got just as much financial assistance when you built your current training facility at Alberton.

I thought Alan Scott built that

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

They are not always in competition with each other.

Naive much. We shouldn't care what each other does yet your people felt then the need to go running to the AFL and tribunal re Gibbs and Burton respectively. You guys are funny. I think Triggy has acted brilliantly in this saga. On more than once occasion he has publically made it clear any benefit you guys get we must also receive.

As for my main concern, its the SANFL. Port Power will always be given some sort of handout to stay a float. I don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that the Port Magpies will not receive a huge advantage over their rivals by aligning themselves with an AFL club. It's a ludicrous argument.

 

[aneale]

8-1 against the merger, guess the Clubs didn't like Whicker hissy fit about having to vote and not palm off to the commission. Lets see if the commission ratify it.

 

[Cap]

I reckon the funniest part is the arguments that we will lose 140 years of history.....but they have been telling us for years that the history is now playing in the AFL

so it really was already lost years ago.