Crows vs. Demons - Match Talk

[Alex99]

^^^^^^^

Totally agree.

Quality post by the Stiffmeister, reflecting the feelings of those posters on this board who don't automatically want to chuck out the non-glamorous hard workers in the team for some newbie who hasn't yet earned it.

As Stiffy said, if they're good enough the young blokes will get their chance by forcing the selectors to pick them by their form or grab their chance when injuries allow.

So it has been, and so it always will be.

Doesn’t it comes back to the unknown product of something is a far more attractive product over the know product, especially after failure.

Richard Douglas doesn’t have any demons, Michael doughty and Robert Shirley do.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Thank you Stiffy_18 for putting in to words similar to my thoughts ,I get so sick of the negativity on this board at times running down players the have really done their jobs in getting us to the prelimary final over the last couple of years.
Well done.

I'm one of the 'negatives' who would like to see some of our younger players given an opportunity in the 22 ahead of some of our mid-range players.

The question the coaching staff will need to ask itself is has the current group of players taken us as far as they can? Is there enough improvement in Doughty, Shirley, Massie, Perrie, Stevens etc to take us from a very good team to a premiership team?

 

[- PC -]

to take us from a very good team to a premiership team?

sigh

First you must ask why we lost, was it exclusively these players? Was it match day coaching , was it that West Coast were better?

If you think it is totally the players then fine your argument stands..for you.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

sigh

First you must ask why we lost, was it exclusively these players? Was it match day coaching , was it that West Coast were better?

If you think it is totally the players then fine your argument stands..for you.

Yeah, what does Craigy do on match day anyway? He's getting paid top dollar to sit on his arse. Make a move DAMN IT!!!...

Anyway, whether it is a Mark Ricciuto, a Ben Hart, a Tyson Edwards or a Shane Warne, at some stage most champion players have been fast-tracked. A coach or selector has said "I think this guy could be something" and has picked them anyway, despite them not dominating at a lower level and earning their position outright.

So for mine, bring in Knights and Douglas. Let them play and let's see what they can become.

 

[Dandy_GO]

Yeah, what does Craigy do on match day anyway? He's getting paid top dollar to sit on his arse. Make a move DAMN IT!!!...

Anyway, whether it is a Mark Ricciuto, a Ben Hart, a Tyson Edwards or a Shane Warne, at some stage most champion players have been fast-tracked. A coach or selector has said "I think this guy could be something" and has picked them anyway, despite them not dominating at a lower level and earning their position outright.

So for mine, bring in Knights and Douglas. Let them play and let's see what they can become.

Knights has actually played a decent amount of games given his run with injury. Dougie played a couple of games including a final in his first season.
Besides them, we've still got plenty of guys in the side who are still learning and establishing themselves. Reilly, Thompson, van Berlo and Mattner are the best examples. Still fairly young and often getting limited gametime or being played in different positions - just as Goodwin and Edwards were, as they learn to play how Craigy wants them to. I believe Edwards was on our list for 6 years before he finally got a full time gig in the midfield.
We're not a bottom side who basically have nothing else to cling to but they're future players. We have a good side now, plus we're slowly introducing new talent. What's the problem?
Plus the standard of the SANFL is high enough that our youngsters can learn plenty from playing there for their first couple of seasons.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

But seriously ......Iam an avid fan of Vince and Porplyzia whose skills, footy thinking and quick hands are wonderful to watch.

Mackay also has wonderful footy nous (it's a natural instinct and can't be taught) is the equal in terms of kicking skills but obviously has still a bit of development of his body to go.

Macca I can't help it if I lean to the skilled players ......

This is what I'm saying, and I know people say I'm getting ahead of myself but I just haven't seen this many youngsters at the one club, that have such tremendous natural ability in terms of skills :O

I mean, you look at Porplyzia play, he'd played a handful of games going into that qualifying final, and the guy played like he was a seasoned 150+ gamer. He showed no visible signs of finals pressure, it's freakish. I am TELLING you people that you don't normally see this many youngsters with such ability at the one club. Dal Santo is one at St Kilda, but who else down there has got it like he does? Luke Ball? Not so smooth I'm afraid. And you know the best thing about it? Every other club and its supporters are writing us off, claiming our youngsters are useless. They are hugely underestimating the talent we've got in my opinion, and it'll be their downfall. As far as I'm concerned there is huge potential in the talent we've got, and we've every right to be very, very excited.

 

[Crow-mo]

I think what people are saying is that if its a 50/50 choice or close to it the younger player should win out over players of the quality of Bode, Shirley and Doughty.

actually you'll find that some people are making the presumption that it is a 50/50 choice when all evidence points to the contrary.

when it is a genuine 50/50 choice, and not a manufactured delusion, then sure play the young guy.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

Porplyzia, Van Berlo, Vince, Mackay, Griffin, Douglas all have this natural ability that comes along rarely. Throw in Knights with his natural ball-finding ability...I mean, the guy could be a brownlow medalist in the future if he refines his skills a little more over the next season (they've improved vastly already), simply because he gets so damn much of the ball and kicks goals as well (and lets face it, that's all it really takes). When you consider he gathers more possessions per minute than any other player in the AFL, that's a serious prospect right there.

Edit: I'd love to throw in Jimmy Sellar, Pfeiffer and Meesen but for me these are the unproven quantities. The other youngsters have shown that they've clearly got the natural ability about them....there's just so much potential everywhere you look at our club and that brings a tear to the eye....*cough*

Edit again: And Tippett...yes Tippett....he's got something about him too.

 

[Crow-mo]

Porplyzia, Van Berlo, Vince, Mackay, Griffin, Douglas all have this natural ability that comes along rarely. .

what????

 

[fightingdreamer88]

what????

The natural skills and footy nous....how many youngsters do you see with it at the other clubs? And I mean blokes that have played as much AFL footy as our mentioned blokes have. Not bloody many.

 

[Drummond]

Porplyzia, Van Berlo, Vince, Mackay, Griffin, Douglas all have this natural ability that comes along rarely. Throw in Knights with his natural ball-finding ability...I mean, the guy could be a brownlow medalist in the future if he refines his skills a little more over the next season (they've improved vastly already), simply because he gets so damn much of the ball and kicks goals as well (and lets face it, that's all it really takes). When you consider he gathers more possessions per minute than any other player in the AFL, that's a serious prospect right there.

Edit: I'd love to throw in Jimmy Sellar, Pfeiffer and Meesen but for me these are the unproven quantities. The other youngsters have shown that they've clearly got the natural ability about them....there's just so much potential everywhere you look at our club and that brings a tear to the eye....*cough*

Edit again: And Tippett...yes Tippett....he's got something about him too.

And yet MacKay is a proven quantity?

And Sellar is what, 17 years old? Sorry, no natural ability there, dump the lad! And it’s clear you don’t rate Pfeiffer, might as well come out and say it.

 

[Crow-mo]

The natural skills and footy nous....how many youngsters do you see with it at the other clubs? And I mean blokes that have played as much AFL footy as our mentioned blokes have. Not bloody many.

I'd say if you really think that, it's you who haven't seen much footy.

keep on lid on the crazy hyperbole.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

I'd say if you really think that, it's you who haven't seen much footy.

keep on lid on the crazy hyperbole.

You and your lack of optimism....

 

[Crow-mo]

You and your lack of optimism....

mindless optimism is just the same as mindless negativity. dumb and boring.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Man, I CAN'T feel the LOVE here!!!!

Why do people continually have to call out players who give their heart and sould for the jumper just because they might be the type of player they don't like or they might be in a certain age bracket?!

Here is a little fact. In a side that has 22 spots each week its practically impossible to have 22 stars. You need role players that will complement your stars and do the tough things that don't get noticed so your stars can do the flashy things that makes everyone go "ooh" and "ahh".

Its obvious that whipping boys on this board are without a miss, Bode, Shirley, Doughty and McGregor. Last year it used to be Clarke and Biglands who were added to that group.

Now these are the guys who have been integral parts of the team (at one time or another) that has made it to the 2 prelim finals in the last 2 years. This same Shirley that people LOVE to pick on has been a regular in our side for 3-4 years. He was getting a regular game even when Stenglein was still around. He must be doing something right to get a regular game AND finish top 10 in a B&F for a side that went on to play in a preliminary final.

Bode is another one that people just LOVE to bag for some reason. Sure he can burn the ball sometimes and he gets unfairly crusified because of it but FFS is there a better small forward at creating defensive pressure in the forward 50 in the AFL? This lad led our team in tackling last year from a forward pocket. He also kicked 30 odd goals and his defensive pressure has created so many other opportunities for his team mates. If he so average why does he get picked when ever fit? Because he is there to perform a certain role that is integral to the overall strategy and structure of the side. He is a little terrier that will not let that ball leave the forward 50 with ease. His pressure will make it easier for the rest of the players down the field.

Then there is the young one! Back in 2004 I have been super critical of him and his lack of courage at times but he has moved on from that to be one of the most courageous players wearing our jumper and he performs week in week out. He is Craigy's "Mr Versatility". He is getting thrown around from position to position and he keeps performing week in week out. He arguably had a career best year in 2006 and people now want to show him the door.

Yes the youngsters have to come into the calculations at one stage or another but they must EARN that spot. They WILL NOT and should NOT be given a game beacue they fall into a certain age bracket. If Bode, Shirley, Doughty, McGregor etcare so average then it shouldn't be too hard for these kids to take their spot.

Injuries, form and internal competition will take care of who plays and who misses out. No one has never gotten anything on a silver platter, they had to work hard for it. Even the champions of our club had to earn their games and push out others either through injuries, form etc...

These kids will get as much games and game time as they deserve. Its not as though the AFC are not prepared to play these kids. Maric got 8 games last year. A pretty decent return. Vince played in round 1 when he wasn't ready. We also gave debuts to Douglas and Porplyzia. Porplyzia played a pretty big role for us last year.

Its a long season, the kids will get their chance and when they do its up to them to grab hold of it and not let it go. Porplyzia got a chance last season and by the end of the year he got a hold of it that people just couldn't see him dropping out of the finals side.

The kids will get their chance without people wanting to demote players who bust their gut week in week out but have their limitations. No player is perfect. Even the great Roo has some flaws in his game that are still there after an unbelievable football career that will see him be a walk up into the football hall of fame.

I'm not bagging Bode, Shirley, Doughty etc at all. I think the improvement, in especially these 3, over the past 2 years has been outstanding. But I still think they, and the other players I have listed, are the logicals to make way for the youngsters. Somehow, I can't see the AFC dropping Goody or Edwards or the like to give Knights a game.

 

[Mad Dog]

Play. Best. 22.

that's all

 

[RoosterLad]

Agree. Developing youngsters is all good, but winning games of footy is the number one priority.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Porplyzia, Van Berlo, Vince, Mackay, Griffin, Douglas all have this natural ability that comes along rarely. Throw in Knights with his natural ball-finding ability...I mean, the guy could be a brownlow medalist in the future if he refines his skills a little more over the next season (they've improved vastly already), simply because he gets so damn much of the ball and kicks goals as well (and lets face it, that's all it really takes). When you consider he gathers more possessions per minute than any other player in the AFL, that's a serious prospect right there.

Goody would probably disagree with you about that

 

[Stiffy_18]

You and your lack of optimism....

Or blindless optimism

Fact is you haven't seen or heard as much about the youngsters at other clubs and you assume that they are not as good as ours. The problem is that assumptions are mother of all **** ups.

I am pretty sure that majority of clubs in the AFL would have the players of same or better caliber than we do.

 

[rayven]

Agree. Developing youngsters is all good, but winning games of footy is the number one priority.

Youthful enthusiasm has always been a key componant in a best 22.

 

[rayven]

Or blindless optimism

Fact is you haven't seen or heard as much about the youngsters at other clubs and you assume that they are not as good as ours. The problem is that assumptions are mother of all **** ups.

I am pretty sure that majority of clubs in the AFL would have the players of same or better caliber than we do.

Was going to mention something about the hype down the road.

 

[Cap]

Or blindless optimism

Fact is you haven't seen or heard as much about the youngsters at other clubs and you assume that they are not as good as ours. The problem is that assumptions are mother of all **** ups.

I am pretty sure that majority of clubs in the AFL would have the players of same or better caliber than we do.

I'd call that an assumption Stiffy

perhaps the best assumption we could make is that the crows may or may not do better or worse than last year due to the fact that our developing players may or may not be as good as other players in other teams assuming that is that the other teams are still aiming for '07 to be the year.
All this is based on the assumption that clubs may or may not have their focus on the full wellbeing of a player- so Injuries may or may not impact how we go this season especailly against other teams who may or may not have more injuries than us.

does that sound alright ? I'm not being too optimistic or pessimistic I hope.

 

[CarnCrows]

perhaps the best assumption we could make is that the crows may or may not do better or worse than last year due to the fact that our developing players may or may not be as good as other players in other teams assuming that is that the other teams are still aiming for '07 to be the year.

I think it will however be a safe assumption that the Advertiser will be continually remind us of all the 10000 super stars we missed in the last 10 drafts. In particular the ones 'they who should not be named' have picked up.

 

[Richard MacSellar]

I think it will however be a safe assumption that the Advertiser will be continually remind us of all the 10000 super stars we missed in the last 10 drafts. In particular the ones 'they who should not be named' have picked up.

itll be nice to say next couple of years that port have missed out on sellar, mcintyre, etc etc.

lets hope it pans out that way.

 

[fightingdreamer88]

And yet MacKay is a proven quantity?

And Sellar is what, 17 years old? Sorry, no natural ability there, dump the lad! And it’s clear you don’t rate Pfeiffer, might as well come out and say it.

All I'm saying is those blokes have at least proven they've got the natural ability, the potential. They are showing the signs. Whether they go on to become the players they look as if they could become is another issue entirely. I haven't once said that Vince or Porpy or whoever is already a champion, I've simply said they show flashes of good stuff, and that tells me they've got the potential. Mackay has shown it, the potential is there. Not a single one of them has proven their worth as a superstar megagun player, rather they've proven their worth of being tagged with "potential." I suppose I see more potential in these kids collectively than the groups at most other clubs (excluding Carlton of course).

I'm not at all saying I don't rate Pfeiffer, just that I haven't seen enough of him, only seen 1-2 of his possessions. Same goes for Sellar, and at 17 I'd be far from condemning him even if he was to have a couple of poor showings for us. Pfeiffer is the one I'm most interested to see, because he seems to be the most talked about.