Cummins Overrated?

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kozi

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It’s outlandish to think his current ICC player rating sits as the 5th best rating ever recorded by a test bower. He’s currently equal with McGrath’s peak of 914 and just behind Murali who’s #4 with 920.

In no way does that mean he’s the 5th best bowler of all time, but dear lord look at the names his form over the last 12 months stacks up against.
 

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Gethelred

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Cummins is - in some ways - hampered by who he plays beside. Where Lillee played alongside Thompson and Warne/McGrath only really had each other to steal wickets off the other (with respect to Gillespie et al, they simply weren't at the level of the other two) Cummins has to deal with Hazelwood stealing wickets from him in conditions that suit his accuracy and bounce, Starc in conditions that suit his speed and his swing, and Lyon in subcontinent conditions that suit him more than the other two quicks.

There's only 10 wickets to get an innings, and if your teammates chip in you're not going to get the big 5 fors or the 10 wicket hauls that McGrath might have gotten in conditions that suit. It's only going to get worse if Green can make a go of it, too.
 

DEVO

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Current ICC Ranking for Bowlers and All Rounders. Cummins and Starc are in both lists.

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Hard to over rate the guy when he is the #1 ranked bowler in the world, and by a decent margin, unless of course you think he is the greatest of all time. He may end up in the discussion by the end of his career, but it's too early at the moment.
 

philreich

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Cummins is - in some ways - hampered by who he plays beside. Where Lillee played alongside Thompson and Warne/McGrath only really had each other to steal wickets off the other (with respect to Gillespie et al, they simply weren't at the level of the other two) Cummins has to deal with Hazelwood stealing wickets from him in conditions that suit his accuracy and bounce, Starc in conditions that suit his speed and his swing, and Lyon in subcontinent conditions that suit him more than the other two quicks.

There's only 10 wickets to get an innings, and if your teammates chip in you're not going to get the big 5 fors or the 10 wicket hauls that McGrath might have gotten in conditions that suit. It's only going to get worse if Green can make a go of it, too.
One thing that won't suffer too much is his average per wicket. His line and length is ruthless - he's always asking questions of the batsmen. I feel confident that he'll end his career with an elite bowling average.
 

cricketnut14

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Cummins is - in some ways - hampered by who he plays beside. Where Lillee played alongside Thompson and Warne/McGrath only really had each other to steal wickets off the other (with respect to Gillespie et al, they simply weren't at the level of the other two) Cummins has to deal with Hazelwood stealing wickets from him in conditions that suit his accuracy and bounce, Starc in conditions that suit his speed and his swing, and Lyon in subcontinent conditions that suit him more than the other two quicks.

There's only 10 wickets to get an innings, and if your teammates chip in you're not going to get the big 5 fors or the 10 wicket hauls that McGrath might have gotten in conditions that suit. It's only going to get worse if Green can make a go of it, too.


10FA's in test match aren't that easy

Warne got 10, Lillee & Grimmett 7, next best is 3 by the likes of McGrath & Johnson.

The likes of Lee, Gillespie, Thomson, Lindwall never got 1 - they all did get 9 fa's though.


Current crop - Lyon 3, Starc 2, Cummins 1, Hazlewood 0

I think this kind of stat can be misleading, depending what bowlers make up the quartet.
I think the bowling average is more of how good the bowler is.
 

Yoda_

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Patty’s batting is over rated. Some talk as if we can play an extra bowler when in fact he is no better than the long line of quicks who can hold up an end and be good for 20 or so.


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Gough

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Patty’s batting is over rated. Some talk as if we can play an extra bowler when in fact he is no better than the long line of quicks who can hold up an end and be good for 20 or so.


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I suspect that after his bowling and his grooming as a potential captain his batting is taking a bit of a backseat these days. That talent is there.
 

eth-dog

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Patty’s batting is over rated. Some talk as if we can play an extra bowler when in fact he is no better than the long line of quicks who can hold up an end and be good for 20 or so.


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I mean, if they'reg the extra bowler, whether that's Neser, Pattinson or Swepson or a combination of the three it's pretty obvious that Neser or Pattinson will be the one batting 7
 

Blue1980

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It’s outlandish to think his current ICC player rating sits as the 5th best rating ever recorded by a test bower. He’s currently equal with McGrath’s peak of 914 and just behind Murali who’s #4 with 920.

In no way does that mean he’s the 5th best bowler of all time, but dear lord look at the names his form over the last 12 months stacks up against.

Often reputation grows over time, when McGrath was 27 many people would of thought it was blasphemy to consider him with the greats of the past too.
 

Bombermania

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I might be missing something but every time I see Cummins bowl he always seems to be there or thereabouts. Maybe I've missed him bowling a bad spell but I can't remember it. Can anyone remember PC bowling dross?

I thought Cummins bowling during the Melbourne test was the best I've seen from him with near perfect line & length on or just outside of off-stump.
 

Coops93

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Obviously I'm late to this this, would I be right in saying that by now everyone has realised the idea of him being overrated is a load of bollocks?

He reminds me of Steyn a bit in how he knows when to attack and push hard for wickets and when to control and build pressure. Cummins to me is excellent at that as well, the perfect balance to Hazelwood and Starc who themselves are all out wicket taking attempts and all out control and wickets through pressure, as he can do either when need be.

Not quite as quick as Steyn or really the same sort of bowler, but the thinking side of it I see similarities.
 

Perth bloke

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Obviously I'm late to this this, would I be right in saying that by now everyone has realised the idea of him being overrated is a load of bollocks?

He reminds me of Steyn a bit in how he knows when to attack and push hard for wickets and when to control and build pressure. Cummins to me is excellent at that as well, the perfect balance to Hazelwood and Starc who themselves are all out wicket taking attempts and all out control and wickets through pressure, as he can do either when need be.

Not quite as quick as Steyn or really the same sort of bowler, but the thinking side of it I see similarities.
Yeah I have no idea why the OP decided to start this thread. Must be trolling because at no time in his career has PC been overrated
 

cricketnut14

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Yeah I have no idea why the OP decided to start this thread. Must be trolling because at no time in his career has PC been overrated


people like to make big calls i guess - i know i am guilty of it.

had a $300 bet with my mate before ponting made his debut that he would get 30+ test tons - was rapt when he moved from #6 to #3.

same deal i made a bet with that same mate before smith made his debut that he'd get 30+ test tons - i hope to be cashing in, in the next year or 2.

on the other side of the coin i said jaques and henriques would be 50+ test players before they made their test debut - i failed miserably there.

but getting back to these 10fa's - murali got heaps of them coz no other bowler in his side could take wickets (he had chaminda vaas for a little while).
 

Gough

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people like to make big calls i guess - i know i am guilty of it.

had a $300 bet with my mate before ponting made his debut that he would get 30+ test tons - was rapt when he moved from #6 to #3.

same deal i made a bet with that same mate before smith made his debut that he'd get 30+ test tons - i hope to be cashing in, in the next year or 2.

on the other side of the coin i said jaques and henriques would be 50+ test players before they made their test debut - i failed miserably there.

but getting back to these 10fa's - murali got heaps of them coz no other bowler in his side could take wickets (he had chaminda vaas for a little while).
I was at Warne's first Test and came away thinking that the blonde leggy wasn't going to come to much.
 

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