Dan Collins

[Antman78]

In Voss's case the best response is no response! just get some wins on the board, so often this only comes about because a loss is made to carry a deeper meaning, no one bothers you if you win. I understand that 9 out of 10 weeks you lose but confidence and self belief or lack of can impact any team no matter how good the system was or is.

lose enough long enough and it will prompt change, when lack of confidence looks like lack of effort the wolves will come regardless of team colours.

How to get confidence? a million dollar question. (wins over hawthorn and then geelong would be a start)

I think we turned a corner against the saints, abit of luck and who knows.

 

[MacMum]

Is it time for emails to the club again??......I feel they need to know that we as members/supporters are very concerned about this situation...

O.k. they publicly may not seem to listen, but surely, surely it would concern them if they are bombarded with emails about all of this drama..

There seems to be some good solutions here on this board......just sometimes its good to get the opinion of an outsider looking in.....often in a difficult time, its hard to see clearly because of being so close to the problem..

I know I'm clutching at straws, but geezs, I don't want Vossy condemned far and wide, I just want him to see what might be happening right under his nose.......and hopefully fix it!..

 

[western royboy]

Is it time for emails to the club again??......I feel they need to know that we as members/supporters are very concerned about this situation...

O.k. they publicly may not seem to listen, but surely, surely it would concern them if they are bombarded with emails about all of this drama..

There seems to be some good solutions here on this board......just sometimes its good to get the opinion of an outsider looking in.....often in a difficult time, its hard to see clearly because of being so close to the problem..

I know I'm clutching at straws, but geezs, I don't want Vossy condemned far and wide, I just want him to see what might be happening right under his nose.......and hopefully fix it!..

Once again you are spot on however the problem as I perceive it is that everyone is protecting their arse and presenting a united front. Vossy appears rattled as do those in the bunker. Personally I wouldn't have entered into any discussion on recent articles - Don't complain - Don't explain, but that's just me.

Fundamentally, Messrs Kelly & Bowers should move on, they have treated members and supporters with absolute contempt. We have gone backwards despite having an unprecedented period of success in the early part of the decade. That's part 1.

Part 2 is that the Coach needs to be accountable to someone for decisons. He should be the head of the Football Dept. Not some COO of football - what b.s. More importantly that person should have significant football experience.

Part 3 is that our Coaching Dept needs structure and a mix of skill sets to help move the players through. The development coach is probably one of the more crucial.

I agree with a few comments that M Voss coach will live or die by how he reacts / responds at the end of the year.

If no one goes at the end of the year, then he will be scapegoated at some point in 2011.

 

[MacMum]

Cheers WR....I hate all this sort of stuff happening at our club.....you know, I would dearly love to be able to sit down and have a good conversation with JB and get his take on all this..

Wonder how much influence he really has with Vossy?...Wouldn't MV listen if JB said, "hey boss, we have a problem"?

 

[whatboutbob]

IMHO, your estimate of the "power and inclination of the media" is vastly overstated. For a start, most Australians probably aren't interested in politics, for example, other than at the margins, and based on my experience only, many don't read newspapers regularly. I'd guess that most people get their news from TV [and if you want a biased media outlet, try Channel 10]. I am interested in politics because of my academic background, but I wouldn't have known who the Murdoch newspapers supported last time around as it's irrelevant to me and I suspect the great majority of newspaper readers don't even read the editorials.

These days, many of us have access to a very much broader range of media than in the past. Debating this a couple of years ago with a UQ tutor whose view was that Murdoch controlled nearly everything so what was the point, my response was that growing up in Hobart we got our news through the ABC and "The Mercury"- that was it. These days, I have 2 papers delivered daily, and when I can I read the net versions of the "Herald Sun", "The Age", "Mercury", "Guardian", "Telegraph", ABC The Drum etc. No doubt many other people do the same. Point is, it's a lot more difficult for one news stable to control the agenda, if they wanted to, these days than in the past.

If the CM is dishonestly or for base motives running an anti- Brisbane Lions agenda, I haven't seen it. Brittain's comments this morning suggest there might be something to the stuff written recently.

There's probably not much point in me debating this with you further here, while taking the thread further off-topic, but if you (or anyone else) would like to read more on the subject I'm happy to provide a suggested reading list via PM.

What I will say is that there are countless studies effectively demonstrating the power of the media to shape opinions, including in Australia.

For more base reading, if you've not already, I'd suggest casting a critical eye over Crikey. Assuming they've still got pieces up there, I'd start with background on Chris Mitchell (former Courier Mail editor and current Australian editor).

Having said that, Tassie, if you are content to not question the motivation of those supplying you with news, then go for it. However, especially having seen editors in action up close, and the results, I prefer to read more critically. To each their own.

 

[BuntonRules]

Cheers WR....I hate all this sort of stuff happening at our club.....you know, I would dearly love to be able to sit down and have a good conversation with JB and get his take on all this..

Wonder how much influence he really has with Vossy?...Wouldn't MV listen if JB said, "hey boss, we have a problem"?

That is it MacM - the 1 person with the stature & the character to act as a
'circuit breaker' in this whole mess is JB. Is probably the only 1 that could say that to Vossy, & be listened to.

 

[whatboutbob]

Brittain comments ‘irrelevant’: Voss

Lions coach Michael Voss has brushed off criticism from his former assistant, Wayne Brittain, that there is an internal crisis within the Lions camp.

Brittain criticised Voss for the appointment of former Olympic canoeist Dan Collins as his right hand man, claiming Voss was now too busy to communicate properly with his players.

Voss said the comments were irrelevant to his job as head coach.

“I don’t know why I have got to answer questions for people who aren’t here when they are the past and not the future,” Voss said.

“It’s quite clearly a personal reference to one person, it’s a personal conflict.

“Sort it out one on one, go catch up, get a coffee, do it that way, there are better ways to do it.”

Voss would not say whether the Lions football management structure needs to be modified; instead reinforcing that everyone is united in the same aim, to start winning again.

“We are firmly focused on making sure that we turn this around,” Voss said.

“I can say with the utmost confidence that everyone is completely committed to be able to do that.”

And from the Courier Mail:

="http://www.couriermail.com.au/spo...6-1225890888392"]Crisis talk irrelevant: Voss

 

[acuguy]

Just hear Wayne Brittain's comments and they weren't aggressive or narky, the tone was that of a man who was giving an analysis of his time under Voss and Collins.

Losing Brittain may have been the biggest mistake.

 

[Football Pope]

Maybe while in Tassie this week...Dan could have a paddle in "The Pure Waters of Tasmania"...

[youtube]94syGYcdGcU[/youtube]



and all our injured players.....

 

[Zhesty]

If what was said about Voss not having visited the injured Brittain brother is true, then I am extremly dissapointed with Voss as a person. Don't know whether this is actually the case but if it is then that is very dissapointing. As for Dan Collins... where their is smoke, their is fire. Only the people within the club would really know the true story but I just hope Voss doesn't let his arrogance dictate the outcome.What i am most dissapointed with this season is not the on field stuff but is with the way the club has acted off field since the end of last season. Would love to see Bowers included in any clean out at seasons end.

 

[Doug Hogan]

Poor old lions in crisis!

Voss seems to burn too many people and is never worng.

What happened to his old mate Leppa? Craig Brittian?

Inexperienced, untried and not overly smart.

Wonderful player so for your sake, let's hope he learns to get on with people better.

 

[JB75]

There are a couple things starting to worry me about Voss as a coach in light of some recent developments:

People Skills: Voss has left a trail of destruction in the way he has dealt with colleagues and players. The potential Bradshaw trade was ok in principle, but Voss mishandled it to such a degree that the relationship was irrepairably damaged. Not visiting Craig Brittain in the 5 weeks he was in hospital fighting for his life and leg is reprehensible and it now seems obvious the reason the Brittain brothers decided to leave, more irrepairable damage. Who knows how many more bridges he has burnt? To me, for someone whose primary role is to get the best out of others to have such poor communication/people skills is alarming.

Ego: The fact that Voss has assembled a coaching staff without any former coach or mentor amongst them concerns me. McRae - former teammate, played under him. Rawlings - His junior and an inferior player. Collins - non-football background, no authority or respect amongst the football community. Yes men. Voss may have an inability to take constructive criticism on board which is problematic if it impeads his ability to reflect on his performance. Voss doesn't strike me as a person who admits to being wrong very often.

 

[John]

I do know a couple of people who have suggested that Brittain may not have such wonderful man management skills himself. Eagles anyone?


Whats this tipping thingy on the left. I aint done no tipping around here.

 

[Stocka]

That is it MacM - the 1 person with the stature & the character to act as a
'circuit breaker' in this whole mess is JB. Is probably the only 1 that could say that to Vossy, & be listened to.

I'm not so sure about that, to be honest.

Voss is still one of the most highly credentialed players of recent times, even more so then Brown and Brown has always been his junior. Voss's reputation and the regard for him amongst his peers and opponents was second to none. This exceeds the accolades and regard for Brown and put simply, Voss has been more successful and could well reserve the right to tell any of his players to take heed of his expertise as opposed to their own leanings.

In most respects Brown is not going to be able to tell Voss anything that he doesn't already know, anyway. I think it also begs the question as to whether or not Brown would be the right person to act in this manner even if he did have some insight of which Voss was unaware.

At this stage, I think it would take someone of coaching experience to counsel, advise or mentor Voss. I'm thinking someone of the stature, maturity and objectivity of L.Matthews or another similar figure, without a recently blotted copy-book.

 

[MacMum]

Poor old lions in crisis!

Voss seems to burn too many people and is never worng.

What happened to his old mate Leppa? Craig Brittian?

Inexperienced, untried and not overly smart.

Wonderful player so for your sake, let's hope he learns to get on with people better.

Not bitter much, are we??

 

[kimp]

I'm not so sure about that, to be honest.

Voss is still one of the most highly credentialed players of recent times, even more so then Brown and Brown has always been his junior. Voss's reputation and the regard for him amongst his peers and opponents was second to none. This exceeds the accolades and regard for Brown and put simply, Voss has been more successful and could well reserve the right to tell any of his players to take heed of his expertise as opposed to their own leanings.

In most respects Brown is not going to be able to tell Voss anything that he doesn't already know, anyway. I think it also begs the question as to whether or not Brown would be the right person to act in this manner even if he did have some insight of which Voss was unaware.

At this stage, I think it would take someone of coaching experience to counsel, advise or mentor Voss. I'm thinking someone of the stature, maturity and objectivity of L.Matthews or another similar figure, without a recently blotted copy-book.

Absolutely agree Stocka.

The main point also is that we have one journalist's interpretation that Vossy has a communication problem and an ex-worker. Vested interests much?

 

[kimp]

Is it time for emails to the club again??......I feel they need to know that we as members/supporters are very concerned about this situation...

O.k. they publicly may not seem to listen, but surely, surely it would concern them if they are bombarded with emails about all of this drama..

There seems to be some good solutions here on this board......just sometimes its good to get the opinion of an outsider looking in.....often in a difficult time, its hard to see clearly because of being so close to the problem..

I know I'm clutching at straws, but geezs, I don't want Vossy condemned far and wide, I just want him to see what might be happening right under his nose.......and hopefully fix it!..

Email about what exactly and say what? Does anyone here have any coaching experience or experience running a medium-sized enterprise? Or a sporting organisation? Does anyone here actually know all the internal goings-on of the club?

All of this angst is based on conjecture only. What experience or insights can you provide?

It made sense as supporters/members to show your concern about the logo change - that is something that is 'owned' by the supporters/members and everyone has personal opinions about design.

The football dept is a different kettle of fish and I certainly don't want it being run reactively based on ill-informed and inexperienced peoples' opinions. That is a very bad way to run any organisation.

Vossy isn't the most eloquent but I believe that this is the message he is trying to get across.

 

[doddgey]

We did not hire a senior coach with vast amounts of experience in management of staff, game day's etc. We as a club, decided to hire a man who brings impeccable credentials as a footballer and leader, and by all accounts is a wonderful human being.

The decision was made knowing that he would be learning along the way.

This learning process would not only relate to football matters but would also relate to dealing with people. I have not seen anything yet that has changed my mind on Voss being the best man to take us to another flag.

What I have seen imo is a man who has made some mistakes and errors in judgment, he will learn from these. Time is what Voss needs and I for one am very happy for him to have it.

I have been in management for over twenty five years and I am still learning.

 

[POBT]

We did not hire a senior coach with vast amounts of experience in management of staff, game day's etc. We as a club, decided to hire a man who brings impeccable credentials as a footballer and leader, and by all accounts is a wonderful human being.

The decision was made knowing that he would be learning along the way.

This learning process would not only relate to football matters but would also relate to dealing with people. I have not seen anything yet that has changed my mind on Voss being the best man to take us to another flag.

What I have seen imo is a man who has made some mistakes and errors in judgment, he will learn from these. Time is what Voss needs and I for one am very happy for him to have it.

I have been in management for over twenty five years and I am still learning.

Great post doddgey. You are right in that we appointed Voss with eyes wide open.

As for learning from his errors, if he doesn't then he shouldn't be in a leadership position. It is that simple.

 

[Ceebee]

Nicely said doddgey, everyone needs time to learn a new job. Vossy especially as a legend of the club certainly needs support and trust. He certainly has mine.

 

[POBT]

I have to say that when this issue arose, I did automatically think of it in terms of Gen X (Voss, Collins etc) v Gen Y. And maybe it is. But what seems clear to me is that the youngsters of the side don't appear to be the ones with the problems.

Leuenberger - playing his best footy.
Rich - putting in.
Redden - putting in.
Rockliff - starring.
Polks - travelling OK.
Banfield - starring.
Cornelius - putting in.

Of course, most (all?) of our list is classified as Gen Y - so you can't rule out generational differences as a cause of the problems. But it clearly isn't manifesting itself among our younger brigade.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Unrest grows at Brisbane Lions over Michael Voss' right-hand man Dan Collins

• Andrew Hamilton
• From: The Courier-Mail
• July 09, 2010 12:00AM

Don't know the bloke, (heres a comment anyway with a big "BUT" at the start.)

But,!! If a situation is occuring that starts a perception, that the coach is too far away from his players, and an unknown from another sport appears, and I stress appears, to the playing group, or even just some of the playing group, to be the man making all the decisions then the Lions have a massive problem. It may have come from the fact that Vossy is not the super hero all the Brisbane people, and several commentators thought.
Fev should go home too. I heard also that the Fev Browny incident that the club and press shot down in flames was in fact an actuality. But no one will say I guess.

 

[JoondalupJ]

High performance managers aren't there to be popular. If Collins has put in place things that need to be improved, it is conceivable that a few noses might be out of joint.

But things have got worse mate, thats the point.

 

[kimp]

But things have got worse mate, thats the point.

But no one is comparing apples with apples. Yes we've lost significantly more games but the idea that one man is the reason why is ludicrous.

If the club is running around trying to find a scapegoat (which is what these threads seem to be doing) then there is a very big problem at the club.

Surely everyone is hoping/assuming that they are being professional in their examination of the causes of the current bad run of games and looking to minimise them. But then again that doesn't make a good headline does it?

 

[1980GFVideo]

BT actually wrote a diary in 1990 which talked alot about Matthews when he started and there are alot of similarities between observations about the beginning of his coaching career and the articles about Voss.

Matthews put alot of peoples noses out of joint early on and there were players leaving in a way that could be considered shoddy. His communication with players early on was questioned by alot of players.

Hard as nails champion taking a few years to find the balance of dealing with players who place lesser expectations on themselves.