Oppo Camp Dangerfield's Gone (Zero tolerance to trolling) - READ THREAD LINKED IN OP BEFORE POSTING

[Deaneus!]

Do we really want 27 this year though? who would be left in a shallow draft there?

I would personally rather trade for next year's picks so that we have something in the bank for a better draft/Ben Jarman FS pick

Cleverest post in the last 20 pages

It's very likely our draft team are looking into the future about the best way to pick up young Ben, and want a pick from next years first round so that we can ensure we grab him whilst still picking up a top draftee

 

[Moonwatcher]

Does Selwood want to leave Geelong?

Why ask a question that doesn't influence the answer?

 

[latinoheat]

Does Selwood want to leave Geelong?

Hypothetically, if he did?

 

[Bovo]

The issue with getting a 2016 pick is its value is unknown, it could be really good or really bad. So I think both clubs will try to get it done in 2015 picks only. Geelong will certainly want to preserve their position in the 2016 draft, and for us it's a bit on the never-never since we are looking to improve our list NOW.

I agree #9 and Murdoch is unders for us, but I could see us settling for this plus Gellongs second pick in excha ge for one or two of our lower picks (or possibly swap of picks i.e. upgrade for us in the second and third rounds.

High end 1st round pick next year is probably as good as a top 5 round 1 pick this year if all reports are correct. Nobody knows for sure, but I would take the risk personally.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Depends entirely on Danger's view of going into a draft to get to Geelong.

Given Dangerfield's prime reason for leaving afc is to get closer to home, I would be extremely surprised if he risks the draft... Particularly with lions lurking.

Plan b would be a decent Melbourne club, as he also wants success.

Reckon a cats deal will get done though.

 

[porgy]

The problem lies with the afl and the aflpa. Had adelaide finished 2nd bottom like Melbourne last year they would except pick 3 I'd imagine. What if geelong were in the grand final and their first pic was 17? I agree with 1970crow the system is flawed and I can't see where the afl are going to fix it. I think the aflpa wants no such thing as restricted free agents, 8 years club service your free you can do what you want.
Then you have the 9 year buddy franklin joke of a deal that Fitzpatrick had a tantrum over and lead to sydney getting trade penalties on the fly.
It's just a mess, of course adelaide are going to match because they finished 6th, and geelong 10th, yet Carlton try to shop Kreuzer around to gain pick 2 but he fails 3 medicals at clubs and they keep him. Is that a fair system? Player movement and compensation based on ladder position is a joke, unrestricted or restricted "free agency" free being the operative word.
Danger is worth more than what geelong or the afl can currently offer yet frawley who isn't fit it stud dangers boots is worth pick 3? Wtf?
Yet the afl has a points system for unproven father son and academy draftees but not for proven stars?
I feel sorry for Adelaide mostly, geelong also because purely based on ladder position they have to trade.
Fix the mess afl. It's a joke. Don't force adelaide and geelong to sort out problem created by your "fair system".

 

[Strangled Cat]

That Carlton got overs is neither agreed nor fact

You can't base an argument on the premise created by passing your opinion off as acknowledged fact

I was thinking for a while that WCE won the deal. Of course it's my opinion and it is somewhat subjective, but I base that opinion on a bunch of arbitrary criterions in a similar fashion to how I make any informed choices in life. There isn't always an instruction manual to tell you what to do in any given scenario in life, so you've got to back yourself and make a call.

In this case, it is pretty simple; I look at the output of the players WCE aquired compared to that of what Judd's influence over Carlton was both individually and the holistic impact. Even though West Coast's pick #20 was a fizzer, Masten and Kennedy's combined output would be close to that of Judd's at Carlton, and barring the unforseen, will almost certainly exceed that of Judd's by the end of their respective careeers, based on my criterion of judgement.

 

[CrowHop]

I agree with that, and I did say in hindsight, also. But the wonderful thing about history is that if we educate ourselves with what happened in the past, we can avoid making the same mistakes as our predecessors. It is my opinion that selling the farm for one player is not the way to go.

Champion teams win flags, not teams with a few champs. And as far as champs go, Judd was a Brownlow medalist and premiership captain when he left WCE. Danger has played eight seasons with Adelaide and only just won his first B&F a week ago. I don't think it is fair to compare the two on output.

He's a current all Australian, b and f winner. What does it matter if it's ONLY win?

 

[CrowHop]

Murdich - wtf - average at best.

Would Geelong accept Lyons and pick 9 for Selwood?

And this is the point. Some geelong supporters aren't considering what the expectation would be if the roles were reversed.

 

[CrowHop]

The problem lies with the afl and the aflpa. Had adelaide finished 2nd bottom like Melbourne last year they would except pick 3 I'd imagine. What if geelong were in the grand final and their first pic was 17? I agree with 1970crow the system is flawed and I can't see where the afl are going to fix it. I think the aflpa wants no such thing as restricted free agents, 8 years club service your free you can do what you want.
Then you have the 9 year buddy franklin joke of a deal that Fitzpatrick had a tantrum over and lead to sydney getting trade penalties on the fly.
It's just a mess, of course adelaide are going to match because they finished 6th, and geelong 10th, yet Carlton try to shop Kreuzer around to gain pick 2 but he fails 3 medicals at clubs and they keep him. Is that a fair system? Player movement and compensation based on ladder position is a joke, unrestricted or restricted "free agency" free being the operative word.
Danger is worth more than what geelong or the afl can currently offer yet frawley who isn't fit it stud dangers boots is worth pick 3? Wtf?
Yet the afl has a points system for unproven father son and academy draftees but not for proven stars?
I feel sorry for Adelaide mostly, geelong also because purely based on ladder position they have to trade.
Fix the mess afl. It's a joke. Don't force adelaide and geelong to sort out problem created by your "fair system".

Well articulated post

 

[Strangled Cat]

Why ask a question that doesn't influence the answer?

If you read between the lines, the point I was making is rather pertinent to the wider topic at hand.

 

[Moonwatcher]

If you read between the lines, the point I was making is rather pertinent to the wider topic at hand.

If Selwood wanted to leave Geelong the answer to the question asked would be no. If he did not want to leave Geelong the answer to the question would be no.

 

[Strangled Cat]

Hypothetically, if he did?

Whilst hypotheticals of this nature are rather irrelevant, I shall humour you by saying "ideally not".

 

[Strangled Cat]

If Selwood wanted to leave Geelong the answer to the question asked would be no. If he did not want to leave Geelong the answer to the question would be no.

What one wants to accept and what one must accept can depend solely on the situation he finds himself in.

 

[Brentmeister]

What one wants to accept and what one must accept can depend solely on the situation he finds himself in.

Ladies and gentlemen....Sun Tzu

 

[hippyhippy]

If Selwood wanted to leave Geelong the answer to the question asked would be no. If he did not want to leave Geelong the answer to the question would be no.

Exactly.. they would ask for anither first... which is what we are expecting... geelong cant expect to go to the trade table with spuds wanting to exchange for gold ... you need to get some of your own gold out. . Anything less than 2 firsts and a decent player would be 1 of the worst trades in history. I can't believe how some here are suggesting otherwise. If collingwood were in our shoes, we all know what they would be asking.

 

[hippyhippy]

What one wants to accept and what one must accept can depend solely on the situation he finds himself in.

Precisely. .. danger heading to Brisbane

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The problem lies with the afl and the aflpa. Had adelaide finished 2nd bottom like Melbourne last year they would except pick 3 I'd imagine. What if geelong were in the grand final and their first pic was 17? I agree with 1970crow the system is flawed and I can't see where the afl are going to fix it. I think the aflpa wants no such thing as restricted free agents, 8 years club service your free you can do what you want.
Then you have the 9 year buddy franklin joke of a deal that Fitzpatrick had a tantrum over and lead to sydney getting trade penalties on the fly.
It's just a mess, of course adelaide are going to match because they finished 6th, and geelong 10th, yet Carlton try to shop Kreuzer around to gain pick 2 but he fails 3 medicals at clubs and they keep him. Is that a fair system? Player movement and compensation based on ladder position is a joke, unrestricted or restricted "free agency" free being the operative word.
Danger is worth more than what geelong or the afl can currently offer yet frawley who isn't fit it stud dangers boots is worth pick 3? Wtf?
Yet the afl has a points system for unproven father son and academy draftees but not for proven stars?
I feel sorry for Adelaide mostly, geelong also because purely based on ladder position they have to trade.
Fix the mess afl. It's a joke. Don't force adelaide and geelong to sort out problem created by your "fair system".

Great post!

I have previously mentioned the solution is ladder finishing order bears no influence on the compensation. The afl have a better banding system that determines whether the compensation is a draft pick(s) at the beginning/end or mid round depending on the banding evaluation.

There is too bigger difference between picks #2 & #19 for the current system to be fair.

 

[1970crow]

Great post!

I have previously mentioned the solution is ladder finishing order bears no influence on the compensation. The afl have a better banding system that determines whether the compensation is a draft pick(s) at the beginning/end or mid round depending on the banding evaluation.

There is too bigger difference between picks #2 & #19 for the current system to be fair.

It's got to be a conscious decision though, even Vlad wasn't this stupid. It's clearly designed to give a greater leg up to lesser teams. Where it fails is with the absolute top liners who would be miles ahead of the blokes who just squeeze into band 1. They didn't care with Buddy because the Hawks had just won the flag and had no hope of matching anyway. It did cost the COLA's their COLA though. But it's easily fixable if they accept that the failed the Hawks when Buddy left. Admit one error, move on and don't repeat it over and over. But we know that won't happen.

 

[Strangled Cat]

Precisely. .. danger heading to Brisbane

On the topic of Brisbane, what's the likelihood of a three-way deal between Geelong, Adelaide and Brisbane? Jarrad Jansen has asked to be traded to Brisbane and Brisbane owe us a favour for accepting unders for Al Christensen. Are you guys still after Aish?

Aish is not going to Collingwood anymore I believe, so perhaps he might be keen on a return to Adelaide? Geelong send pick #9 to Brisbane along with JJ. Geelong swaps its second and third round draft picks with Adelaide. Brisbane send its second round draft pick and Aish to Adelaide.

In summary:

Brisbane lose pick #20 and Aish and gain pick #9 and Jarrad Jansen.

Adelaide lose Dangerfield and (roughly) pick #33 and #51 and gain pick #20, #28, #46 and Aish

Geelong lose pick #9, Jarrad Jansen and pick #28 and #46 and gain Dangerfield and pick #33 #51.

 

[hippyhippy]

Can a mod please ban strsngled cat... thats absolutely laughable

 

[Bovo]

There is no fair way for this to work, however free agency is about the player first and then the club. It is about allowing a player who has done the hard yards to go to his club of choice. I have gone through a number of scenarios and can't seem to find a logical answer.

The AFL just can't let a player go for nothing, but at the same time it can't punish other teams by inserting a random draft pick in the middle.

As I said the only one who wins this one is the player....and the club the player is going to.

Have no idea what the answer is....but...

I reckon that if a club chooses to take an FA they should not be able to take another for 3 years. This ensures the top teams don't just keep getting top ups...!

 

[clonewars2016]

On the topic of Brisbane, what's the likelihood of a three-way deal between Geelong, Adelaide and Brisbane? Jarrad Jansen has asked to be traded to Brisbane and Brisbane owe us a favour for accepting unders for Al Christensen. Are you guys still after Aish?

Aish is not going to Collingwood anymore I believe, so perhaps he might be keen on a return to Adelaide? Geelong send pick #9 to Brisbane along with JJ. Geelong swaps its second and third round draft picks with Adelaide. Brisbane send its second round draft pick and Aish to Adelaide.

In summary:

Brisbane lose pick #20 and Aish and gain pick #9 and Jarrad Jansen.

Adelaide lose Dangerfield and (roughly) pick #33 and #51 and gain pick #20, #28, #46 and Aish

Geelong lose pick #9, Jarrad Jansen and pick #28 and #46 and gain Dangerfield and pick #33 #51.

Like your thinking, but we want redden to. Got any steak knives you can throw in for our friends north of the border!

 

[Bovo]

Redden over Aish for me.

 

[RippaRiley43]

On the topic of Brisbane, what's the likelihood of a three-way deal between Geelong, Adelaide and Brisbane? Jarrad Jansen has asked to be traded to Brisbane and Brisbane owe us a favour for accepting unders for Al Christensen. Are you guys still after Aish?

Aish is not going to Collingwood anymore I believe, so perhaps he might be keen on a return to Adelaide? Geelong send pick #9 to Brisbane along with JJ. Geelong swaps its second and third round draft picks with Adelaide. Brisbane send its second round draft pick and Aish to Adelaide.

In summary:

Brisbane lose pick #20 and Aish and gain pick #9 and Jarrad Jansen.

Adelaide lose Dangerfield and (roughly) pick #33 and #51 and gain pick #20, #28, #46 and Aish

Geelong lose pick #9, Jarrad Jansen and pick #28 and #46 and gain Dangerfield and pick #33 #51.

Really? We're absolutely shafted there and you make out like bandits, while Brisbane do ok but not great. We lose Dangerfield for Aish, a second rounder and upgrades on some useless later picks. I think a three-way trade should involve Redden to us. I'm not super keen on Aish to be honest. I'd rather deal separately for him if we were interested.

As a matter of curiosity, what do you think Jansen's legitimate value is? Like what would you accept from Brisbane if you traded just him to them? I've never heard of him.