Vic Daniel Andrews and the Statue of Limitations

[Sttew]

Thanks Foucault.

But in all seriousness, people usually have a reason for the things they do. If you don't want to say why you keep finding yourself posting in here (or simply reading and reacting) you don't have to, I was just curious.

I have very personal reasons for despising this man with a passion but I won’t discuss them in a forum like this for obvious reasons.

I have NEVER despised a politician as much as Dan. In my eyes he Does not have one redeeming quality as a human being. Yes he is an astute political animal but this is a Premier who has consistently put politics above integrity and the people of the state. You only have to hear the frustration in Robert Redlich’s voice. He is a very decent and highly respected man who was charged with the responsibility of stamping out corruption in government. It is 8 months since his contract ended and he hasn’t been replaced. What does tell you?

The Opposition couldn’t be more inept, but that does not excuse Dan’s behaviour.

 

[Gethelred]

same fella?: The History of Sexuality - Wikipedia

Yep. One of the founders of Postmodern thought, which is what that post reminded me of.

It's just a bit of a peculiar question, especially for a mod to ask. If you're giving up your effort to help this little community of people, you should have a grasp on that answer, otherwise why are you here?

I've answered that particular question any number of times, tandino. I come here to learn, to challenge myself, to be proven right and wrong and some of both at alternates. I come here to participate in this community of ideas, and I come here to see where empathy meets practicality.

There's also that I'm not asking you why you post on the SRP, but why you post in this thread. To an extent we mods let this one go a bit more than we might others, and as a consequence it's built up a group of regulars who've built up a community of their own in here. I wanted to know about that community.

Insight is part of why I post on here tandino, and there is no way to achieve a more explicit insight than to ask. Does that answer your question?

I have very personal reasons for despising this man with a passion but I won’t discuss them in a forum like this for obvious reasons.

Fair.

I have NEVER despised a politician as much as Dan. In my eyes he Does not have one redeeming quality as a human being. Yes he is an astute political animal but this is a Premier who has consistently put politics above integrity and the people of the state. You only have to hear the frustration in Robert Redlich’s voice. He is a very decent and highly respected man who was charged with the responsibility of stamping out corruption in government. It is 8 months since his contract ended and he hasn’t been replaced. What does tell you?

The Opposition couldn’t be more inept, but that does not excuse Dan’s behaviour.

That's a list of his failings, and if you don't want to disclose why you don't like the man that's perfectly fine.

 

[Roby]

& it came at a cost that differed based on each State & Territory. Now its time to pay the piper.

COVID was always going to be costly; there was never any action that would have proven profitable. That said, governments could have been more stringent in creating quarantine facilities from the outset, which would have saved many lives and money.

 

[Kwality]

COVID was always going to be costly; there was never any action that would have proven profitable. That said, governments could have been more stringent in creating quarantine facilities from the outset, which would have saved many lives and money.

Will we learn the lessons or make the same mistakes next time because the lessons embarrass those responsible.

 

[eddiesmith]

It is a bit of an interesting question for those who are more regular posters in here: why do you post in here, this thread specifically? What is the point of it?

Is it a need to share experiences, to read up on Andrews' failings? Is it because ranting feels better than saying nothing? It's certainly not to try and drum up anti Labor support.

Why do you post in here?

Like most it just became somewhere to vent when we all suddenly had a lot of time on our hands thanks to Dans incompetence.

Now it’s just a passing interest, what I find peculiar is people think if you’re interested in the performance of the state premier then you should be commenting on every thread and every politician.

I would be interested to hear why people come on here in droves to defend Dan? What’s the motivation to devote themselves so much to a politician? Even the UFU have found out they’ll stab you in the back and throw you out the second they don’t need your support.

So what motivates someone to be so defensive of one? Some people actually seem to get personally offended by attacks on him.

 

[Gethelred]

Like most it just became somewhere to vent when we all suddenly had a lot of time on our hands thanks to Dans incompetence.

That's reasonable enough.

Now it’s just a passing interest, what I find peculiar is people think if you’re interested in the performance of the state premier then you should be commenting on every thread and every politician.

I would be interested to hear why people come on here in droves to defend Dan? What’s the motivation to devote themselves so much to a politician? Even the UFU have found out they’ll stab you in the back and throw you out the second they don’t need your support.

So what motivates someone to be so defensive of one? Some people actually seem to get personally offended by attacks on him.

As far as that goes, I think there's an element of both political tactics and conditioning to that response.

During Covid, Andrews held his daily pressers and stayed there until the press started repeating themselves or ran out of questions. The net effect of those press conferences - in which you have th pretty potent symbolism of a leader surrounded by critics, whose attacks varied between the legitimate and the silly - was that Andrews appeared a man besieged. Australians - at least some of them - profess to love the underdog; Andrews managed to portray himself as that underdog, 'them vs us' against both the media attacking in and the feds supplying ammo from without.

Now, those Labor voters enter this thread, and yours and others posting reminds them of those pressers. The impression is replicated here as it was there: a leader doing his best beset by critics.

The 2022 election was arguably as significant a result as the initial Danslide was, borne from how he came off in those pressers. People are simply reacting to your criticisms the same way they reacted to those that beset him during the lockdowns.

I'm also doing those who come in here a disservice; I'm suggesting that they aren't actively thinking about why they're posting, instead reacting to you lot. There are myriad reasons why people would/could post in here. But you wonder why some seem aggressively pro-Andrews, it could be due to you being so aggressively against him.

You remind them of how they felt during Covid, potentially.

 

[tandino]

I've answered that particular question any number of times, tandino. I come here to learn, to challenge myself, to be proven right and wrong and some of both at alternates. I come here to participate in this community of ideas, and I come here to see where empathy meets practicality.

There's also that I'm not asking you why you post on the SRP, but why you post in this thread. To an extent we mods let this one go a bit more than we might others, and as a consequence it's built up a group of regulars who've built up a community of their own in here. I wanted to know about that community.

Insight is part of why I post on here tandino, and there is no way to achieve a more explicit insight than to ask. Does that answer your question

My question probably wasn't very clear, it wasn't about why you participate on Bigfooty, I think we are all engaging in the community of ideas. More that why be a mod of SRP if you don't understand what motivates people to post in this thread in particular, as if it was something other than engaging in the community of ideas like any other thread. It was a tenuous answer to your question, and something I will cut loose.

In relation to the thread topic, I don't think anyone's here trying to change anyone's mind on the subject. After 10 years you pretty much know where you sit on the matter. If people want to be Pro-Dan, that's great, go with God. I think the adoration on Twitter was always a bit strange, but that's probably amped up by superfans and probably also an effort within his office.

I think for some people Covid caused a lot of pain that's hard to get over.

I think there are issues around integrity and I don't think IBAC is fit for purpose anymore. Just because it came up this week, we are also the last jurisdiction to have Group Voting Tickets, and his response to that issue is pathetic. It's a pathetic attitude to take to reform that every expert thinks is a good idea.

"When politicians rail against a set of rules that are there to determine who gets elected to what they're sometimes, just sometimes, quite heavily motivated by wanting to get more of their people elected''

It seems to be his cadence to a lot of issues.

I'm not going to unpick the whole administration because there's really no point. He's in the Autumn of political life and I think he'll be off in the next year or so, and life will roll on.

 

[Kwality]

. He's in the Autumn of political life and I think he'll be off in the next year or so, and life will roll on.

I doubt Dans ego will see his reign bracketed with that of John Cain (2) having left a mess in the hands of a lady to clean up.
I can see Dan following Cains tenure on the Melbourne Cricket Ground Trust to be announced before he walks out the door.

 

[jannissary]

Genuine not loaded question


Why is Dan popular and easily relected given the angst draws online ?

all the cookers are too insane to vote consistently, would rather just complain online about it under their full names because they're smart like that

 

[Number37]

Frustration with ineffective Government & a rabble in Opposition.
We saw it with Shorten losing the unloseable & another term from Morrison.
Dan romped home last time out with an Opposition about as good as the 2023 Eagles.

We see how effective the Robodebt inquiry was, how effective the Sofronoff inquiry is, & we Victorians look back at the Coate Inquiry, the Lawyer X shamozzle ....
We've been here before.

LOL.

1/ All you're saying is that these inquiries that didn't find anything adverse against Dan got it wrong.
Based on nothing more than...your extreme desire to see Dan fail.

2/ I would imagine the primary reason Dan was reelected in ANOTHER landslide was specifically because of effective government.
It is just hard for cookers to believe that the majority of the Vic population actually supported the measures the Andrews govt put in place at the height of Covid.

 

[evolved2]

It is a bit of an interesting question for those who are more regular posters in here: why do you post in here, this thread specifically? What is the point of it?

Is it a need to share experiences, to read up on Andrews' failings? Is it because ranting feels better than saying nothing? It's certainly not to try and drum up anti Labor support.

Why do you post in here?

Why anyone would be a fan of a politician is beyond me, but here we are. I post here because I love to argue with people who think differently, and this thread seems as good as any other place for it.

 

[Number37]

It is a bit of an interesting question for those who are more regular posters in here: why do you post in here, this thread specifically? What is the point of it?

Is it a need to share experiences, to read up on Andrews' failings? Is it because ranting feels better than saying nothing? It's certainly not to try and drum up anti Labor support.

Why do you post in here?

Facts matter.

 

[peetoo]

Why anyone would be a fan of a politician is beyond me, but here we are. I post here because I love to argue with people who think differently, and this thread seems as good as any other place for it.

I would imagine that most marginal voters who are currently voting labor would have very few Dan fans in the ranks.

Make no mistake previously blue chip areas have swung and remain that way. Nationals still hold their territory tightly, but the libs are swinging in the breeze right now

 

[Sttew]

LOL.

All you're saying is that these inquiries that didn't find anything adverse against Dan got it wrong.
Based on nothing more than...your extreme desire to see Dan fail.

No adverse findings against Dan? Now you're either being disingenuous or naïve.

This is what Robert Redlich said about Operation Daintree, the inquiry which found the Andrews government improperly awarded a Labor-affiliated union a $1.2 million contract on the eve of the 2018 election:

“Operation Daintree is the most glaring example of (a decision that did not serves the public interest). We found no crime was committed. But we found serious misconduct at every level. That’s corruption.”

And that's not adverse?

Former IBAC boss vows to continue speaking out on integrity

“I am not going to abandon this subject,” Robert Redlich said a day after his extraordinary appearance at a parliamentary integrity hearing.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Ghost Patrol]

This one time, Dan failed to indicate left while exiting a roundabout.

 

[Kwality]

I would imagine that most marginal voters who are currently voting labor would have very few Dan fans in the ranks.

Make no mistake previously blue chip areas have swung and remain that way. Nationals still hold their territory tightly, but the libs are swinging in the breeze right now

See WA* for a reaction to dud policy, those no longer 'lifers' on election day, that traditionally accounted for 70% of voters.

IF you dont change your vote ..... you dont count electorally.

* WA premier Roger Cook axes Aboriginal cultural heritage laws after outcry by landholders

 

[Kwality]

This one time, Dan failed to indicate left while exiting a roundabout.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-11/

victorians-are-concerned-about-the-voting-system/102718428

Fair dinkum, concerned nah, not a Dans agenda Aunty.

 

[Gralin]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-11/

victorians-are-concerned-about-the-voting-system/102718428

Fair dinkum, concerned nah, not a Dans agenda Aunty.

GVT should be abolished

 

[Number37]

No adverse findings against Dan? Now you're either being disingenuous or naïve.

This is what Robert Redlich said about Operation Daintree, the inquiry which found the Andrews government improperly awarded a Labor-affiliated union a $1.2 million contract on the eve of the 2018 election:

“Operation Daintree is the most glaring example of (a decision that did not serves the public interest). We found no crime was committed. But we found serious misconduct at every level. That’s corruption.”

And that's not adverse?

Former IBAC boss vows to continue speaking out on integrity

“I am not going to abandon this subject,” Robert Redlich said a day after his extraordinary appearance at a parliamentary integrity hearing.

www.theage.com.au

Yeah.
Nah.


IBAC cleared Andrews, former health ministers Jill Hennessy and Jenny Mikakos, staff in the ministers’ and premier’s office and public servants of corrupt conduct, but issued a damning assessment of the centralisation of power under the premier’s watch and a “significant erosion” of ministerial accountability.

‘Tentacles everywhere’: Andrews denies power centralised in premier’s office

 

[Sttew]

Yeah.
Nah.


IBAC cleared Andrews, former health ministers Jill Hennessy and Jenny Mikakos, staff in the ministers’ and premier’s office and public servants of corrupt conduct, but issued a damning assessment of the centralisation of power under the premier’s watch and a “significant erosion” of ministerial accountability.

‘Tentacles everywhere’: Andrews denies power centralised in premier’s office

Keep telling yourself that! LOL. Two obvious take aways here. You've been listening to Dan too much. And you clearly don't frequent pubs coz Dan's behaviour does not pas the pub test

Redlich could not have been any more equivocal or damning of Dan. He has publicly accused the Andrews government of corruption. If it wasn't true then Dan should sue because Redlich isn't easing off with his accusations of corruption.

“The most dangerous forms of integrity breaches are breaches of codes of conduct, or not following the prescribed process, because political gain overrides doing the right thing. It’s not money in a bag, but it’s just as dangerous – the endpoint is the public interest not being served"

“We’ve got to stop talking about this notion, as the premier does, that if there’s no crime, there’s nothing to be seen here. Operation Daintree is the most glaring example of that – we found no crime, but we found serious misconduct at every level of executive government which led to the granting of a contract which should never have been made, and which didn’t serve the public interest. That’s corruption"

Victoria’s definition of ‘corruption’ fails the pub test: ex watchdog

Former IBAC head Robert Redlich says misconduct uncovered by an inquiry he ran should amount to corruption, and the rise of political advisers in Victoria is not serving the public interest.

www.afr.com

 

[The Punter]

Certainly Number37 is suggesting that a significant erosion of ministerial accountability is not a problem.

In before someone goes "what about xxx"

 

[Number37]

Keep telling yourself that! LOL. Two obvious take aways here. You've been listening to Dan too much. And you clearly don't frequent pubs coz Dan's behaviour does not pas the pub test

Redlich could not have been any more equivocal or damning of Dan. He has publicly accused the Andrews government of corruption. If it wasn't true then Dan should sue because Redlich isn't easing off with his accusations of corruption.

“The most dangerous forms of integrity breaches are breaches of codes of conduct, or not following the prescribed process, because political gain overrides doing the right thing. It’s not money in a bag, but it’s just as dangerous – the endpoint is the public interest not being served"

“We’ve got to stop talking about this notion, as the premier does, that if there’s no crime, there’s nothing to be seen here. Operation Daintree is the most glaring example of that – we found no crime, but we found serious misconduct at every level of executive government which led to the granting of a contract which should never have been made, and which didn’t serve the public interest. That’s corruption"

Victoria’s definition of ‘corruption’ fails the pub test: ex watchdog

Former IBAC head Robert Redlich says misconduct uncovered by an inquiry he ran should amount to corruption, and the rise of political advisers in Victoria is not serving the public interest.

www.afr.com

From the actual Operation Daintree report.

 

[Number37]

Certainly Number37 is suggesting that a significant erosion of ministerial accountability is not a problem.

In before someone goes "what about xxx"

I'm not suggesting anything.
I am stating that there was no adverse findings against Dan Andrews in the Operation Daintree report.
The OD report says that people from the Health Ministers office and people from the Premiers office pushed for the union to get the contract.
That's it.

Under the IBAC legislation, there was no corruption.
What Redlich is saying is that there was corruption if corruption had a different definition to what is in the IBAC Act.

But let's not let facts get in the way.
Dictator Dan.

 

[Saint]

There were "no adverse findings" against a bunch of people in investigations and enquiries around political corruption.

It usually means "there wasn't enough evidence" more than it means "they didn't do anything wrong".

I thought Andrews did very well during COVID. But other than that, he's gone too far with infrastructure, centralised control, not done enough with health after COVID and he's starting to drink his own bathwater a bit too much. For me, SRL is the biggest emblem of that, but that's because it's in a field i know well.

The problem is that he was attacked so much by reactionary fools during COVID that it forced people like me to have to defend a politician a lot in places like this and seemed like we were "Team Dan". Meanwhile the LNP has sunken to irrelevance for listening to, and becoming, reactionary fools.

That reactionism resulted in the boost to polling and election wins for Labor. But Andrews seems to have read too much into the defence of his COVID performance and thinks it's an endorsement of his performance across the board and appeared to be doubling down. Now Interest Rates are too high for the infrastructure spend so that's gone on the backburner except for Level Crossing Removals around the place. When NEL and WGTP and MetroTunnel open over the next couple of years (longer for NEL), they'll bathe in that last glory, but the rest will be downhill from there.

Problems caused by population growth to health and education and a lack of ability to increase funding in those areas will lead to big problems.

 

[spinynorman]

Entire suburbs to be bulldozed. Millions displaced. Will people be given sufficient notice to evacuate? How many will perish under the bulldozer's blade? How has this Opposition been unable to win an election?

Some big questions.