Vic Daniel Andrews and the Statue of Limitations

[The Punter]

There was an election 9 months ago. Andrews would believe that is where he was held accountable, and I don't necessarily disagree with this view.

There was just a time, not so long ago but long enough to be out of most people's common memories, that ministers and leaders would hold themselves accountable if certain things happened. That is no longer the case.

 

[Gralin]

Only a Liberal nuffie would make this about his memory and not the monumental stuff-up.

It always has to be so personal.

It's about time the Govt woke up to the fact that the advice they're getting from senior staff is rose-coloured views. Why? Because senior staff is stuffed with yes-people who know the Premier just loves to announce stuff and, in the past, hasn't particularly cared about the cost.

Announcements now dead and buried due to rosy cost (or time) estimates:
Western Rail Plan
Melbourne Airport Rail
Commonwealth Games
Geelong Fast Rail
ER staff/beds
Public Housing

How Suburban Rail Loop hasn't been cancelled yet is beyond my cognitive abilities.

The irony is that when West Gate Tunnel and North East Link are finished, East West Link is going to be necessary, but which of the "yes-people" will want to raise that with the Premier?!

The problem starts at the top, but it has permeated many layers.

dont forget the other part of it

the media love covering an announcement but they don't really care about the follow up most of the time because its actual work and they'd rather report on the next piece of content someone else gives them

 

[Gough]

There was an election 9 months ago. Andrews would believe that is where he was held accountable, and I don't necessarily disagree with this view.

There was just a time, not so long ago but long enough to be out of most people's common memories, that ministers and leaders would hold themselves accountable if certain things happened. That is no longer the case.

It's been downhill since Howard lost seven ministers in his first year and suddenly accountability became an obstacle to governing.

 

[Saint]

There was an election 9 months ago. Andrews would believe that is where he was held accountable, and I don't necessarily disagree with this view.

There was just a time, not so long ago but long enough to be out of most people's common memories, that ministers and leaders would hold themselves accountable if certain things happened. That is no longer the case.

About the time the media collectively forgot what ministerial responsibility was and just went after leaders.

Where all elections are horse-races where polls matter more than policy and gaffes matter more than corruption.

Where a gotcha about the cost of a loaf of bread is more important than a $4b cost over-run.

Remember the coverage the Pink Batts got compared to Robodebt.

The media has been complicit in the dumbing down of elections, but dumb people tapping on clickbait are the real culprits in this systemic demise.

Everyone who clicks on any headline with the word Andrews in it needs to uppercut themselves in the head. If they're talking about people and not Govt and Govt policies, don't click on it.

 

[The Punter]

About the time the media collectively forgot what ministerial responsibility was and just went after leaders.

Where all elections are horse-races where polls matter more than policy and gaffes matter more than corruption.

Where a gotcha about the cost of a loaf of bread is more important than a $4b cost over-run.

Remember the coverage the Pink Batts got compared to Robodebt.

The media has been complicit in the dumbing down of elections, but dumb people tapping on clickbait are the real culprits in this systemic demise.

Everyone who clicks on any headline with the word Andrews in it needs to uppercut themselves in the head. If they're talking about people and not Govt and Govt policies, don't click on it.

The issue here is we can't elect substance. I understand your sentiments, and we need to recommit to policy substance as a polity, but in the end we need to elect people, and people must be held accountable. Many of the issues around the Andrews Government at the moment are as a direct result of his character. The parts of him responsible for cost overruns are the same parts that make sure his back is turned to the opposition in every question time are the same parts that makes him rolls his eyes for his six-monthly questioning at PAEC.

We can't elect content. We can only elect human beings. And in the end, the character test between two potential leaders will always have importance.

 

[Saint]

The issue here is we can't elect substance. I understand your sentiments, and we need to recommit to policy substance as a polity, but in the end we need to elect people, and people must be held accountable. Many of the issues around the Andrews Government at the moment are as a direct result of his character. The parts of him responsible for cost overruns are the same parts that make sure his back is turned to the opposition in every question time are the same parts that makes him rolls his eyes for his six-monthly questioning at PAEC.

We can't elect content. We can only elect human beings. And in the end, the character test between two potential leaders will always have importance.

But we need to assess these characters on their policies, not on their personalities.

The best way of judging their characters is to assess the kinds of policies they're producing and spruiking.

If we only judge on their character, then it becomes a challenge of character optics. Where politicians care more about the execution of the press conference than execution of the policy/project which the press conference is about.

The best way of judging politicians is on their policies (revealed character), not on their public appearances and perceived character.

 

[The Punter]

But we need to assess these characters on their policies, not on their personalities.

The best way of judging their characters is to assess the kinds of policies they're producing and spruiking.

If we only judge on their character, then it becomes a challenge of character optics. Where politicians care more about the execution of the press conference than execution of the policy/project which the press conference is about.

The best way of judging politicians is on their policies (revealed character), not on their public appearances and perceived character.

I've provided an explanation of how character is important. Andrews governs the way he does, with all it's consequences, because of who he is. How we regards criticism. How he makes decisions. How he consults. The government, and what it does (you know, policy), is a personification of his character. That's why we get folly like promising an obviously expensive Comm Games for regional Victoria before an election, then cancelling it when the predictable happens after an election. This is who Daniel Andrews is, and because of who he is, this is why the the government acts the way it does. Character affects policies affects government.

"Perceived character" is rhetorical gymnastics. We know who the real Daniel Andrews is.

 

[MarcMaverick]

It's been downhill since Howard lost seven ministers in his first year and suddenly accountability became an obstacle to governing.

"But Liberals"


I understand the hatred for the LNP, count me in on that pile-on, however every time there are criticisms of Dan or the ALP, it is always met with "but the other team is bad" by the usual.

Then again Dan's never responsible or at fault, right ?

 

[Not Important]

c’mon, kos you don't seek facts/evidence from the scum. they are about spreading lies in the interests of the plutocracy.

 

[Not Important]

"But Liberals"


I understand the hatred for the LNP, count me in on that pile-on, however every time there are criticisms of Dan or the ALP, it is always met with "but the other team is bad" by the usual.

Then again Dan's never responsible or at fault, right ?

some truth in that. but it's hard not to point out hypocrisy when it's so blatant.

 

[The Punter]

Just to state clearly - no hypocrisy from me. Look back at all of my various posts about ministerial responsibility mentioning the year 1996 as a turning point.

 

[eddiesmith]

Only a Liberal nuffie would make this about his memory and not the monumental stuff-up.

It always has to be so personal.

It's about time the Govt woke up to the fact that the advice they're getting from senior staff is rose-coloured views. Why? Because senior staff is stuffed with yes-people who know the Premier just loves to announce stuff and, in the past, hasn't particularly cared about the cost.

Announcements now dead and buried due to rosy cost (or time) estimates:
Western Rail Plan
Melbourne Airport Rail
Commonwealth Games
Geelong Fast Rail
ER staff/beds
Public Housing

How Suburban Rail Loop hasn't been cancelled yet is beyond my cognitive abilities.

The irony is that when West Gate Tunnel and North East Link are finished, East West Link is going to be necessary, but which of the "yes-people" will want to raise that with the Premier?!

The problem starts at the top, but it has permeated many layers.

It’s because SRL is Dans baby, dreamt up by himself and he’ll die before cancelling his dream project.

It’s also the excuse for cancelling every other project he doesn’t need.

 

[Not Important]

Just to state clearly - no hypocrisy from me. Look back at all of my various posts about ministerial responsibility mentioning the year 1996 as a turning point.

my post wasn't referring to you t.p. took the posters comment as a catch-all directed at those who were speaking up for andrews. some of us can see his failings but the pile-on from the extreme right is well, er, extreme. oh, and personal.

 

[The Punter]

my post wasn't referring to you t.p. took the posters comment as a catch-all directed at those who were speaking up for andrews. some of us can see his failings but the pile-on from the extreme right is well, er, extreme. oh, and personal.

No worries - there was a reason I didn't quote a post or tag a poster. I just wanted to be clear because of the chatter on the subject.

 

[Gralin]

Great work Dan and Labor

evict people from their homes so you can give it to a developer to make a profit off

 

[FireKrakouer]

Victoria is headed in a dark direction indeed. Remember how Melbourne used to be consistently voted the most liveable city on earth, prior to it becoming Dan's Kleptocracy?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Victoria is headed in a dark direction indeed. Remember how Melbourne used to be consistently voted the most liveable city on earth, prior to it becoming Dan's Kleptocracy?

If this is so important to you, why did you move to a city that is less liveable?

 

[FireKrakouer]

If this is so important to you, why did you move to a city that is less liveable?

Because Brissie is full of lazy rednecks m8... I'm with my people.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Great work Dan and Labor

evict people from their homes so you can give it to a developer to make a profit off

Dan will fob this off and abdicate blame because Dan. Is. Never. Responsible.

Also

He isn't resigning. We are under his gnarled thumb forever. The Dan fans made sure of it. I've made my stance regarding the power duopoly in this state.
I disliked the LNP as a kid and despise the ALP now as an adult. Who do I vote now?

 

[FIGJAM]

Great work Dan and Labor

evict people from their homes so you can give it to a developer to make a profit off

Does the Victorian Socialists have details on this claim?

"Barak Beacon is being demolished and handed to private developers with the promise of a small portion of 'affordable' and social housing to replace existing public housing."

 

[Gralin]

Does the Victorian Socialists have details on this claim?

"Barak Beacon is being demolished and handed to private developers with the promise of a small portion of 'affordable' and social housing to replace existing public housing."

Are you disputing it?

 

[Gralin]

Does the Victorian Socialists have details on this claim?

"Barak Beacon is being demolished and handed to private developers with the promise of a small portion of 'affordable' and social housing to replace existing public housing."

Info is publicly available.

https://www.homes.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202304/Barak%20Beacon_fact%20sheet_English.pdf

They are replacing 89 public houses with 300-350 new apartments.

Less than 100 are guaranteed to be social housing, run by the developer, not the state for the next 40 years.

 

[Gralin]

They could have infilled the land with all public housing, then moved the existing tenants into some of the new ones to then renovate the existing ones.

The end result would have been no evictions, more public housing and not privatization by stealth which is what we have where public land is being used for private profits

 

[FIGJAM]

Info is publicly available.

https://www.homes.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202304/Barak%20Beacon_fact%20sheet_English.pdf

They are replacing 89 public houses with 300-350 new apartments.

Less than 100 are guaranteed to be social housing, run by the developer, not the state for the next 40 years.

The way I read that is 100 social homes with the rest basically a build to rent type scenario run by the private sector at below market rates and presumably subsidised by the government.

Better than the stupid and now abandoned NRAS scheme, because then you're not fobbing off the problem on to Mum and Dad investors.

Having valued a tonne of bank houses around Garden City over the years, I know the area well and am very much of the opinion that the remaining buildings there are unsalvageable.

 

[hawkman]

Taxpayers face bill for early coal closure for AGL’s Loy Yang A

The Andrews government has reached a deal with energy giant AGL that guarantees its Loy Yang A power station – which supplies about one-third of Victoria’s electricity – can supply the grid with a steady pulse of energy for another 12 years to avoid blackouts.

www.theage.com.au