Player Watch Daniel Curtin - Debut

[Golumless]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid what’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….

What it comes down to is you don't develop midfielders by playing midfield in the SANFL. You develop midfielders by finding them a role at AFL level and letting them stress test their game there - and you suck up the bad part until their body catches up to them. Every position is tailor made to develop midfielders, and the idea of positions/roles being specialised and needing unique skillsets is long dead in the AFL - it's a game made for the generalists of the world. After all, players need a good contested game and to accumulate to be able succeed on the offensive side of the ball in any position and succeeding in the midfield is built off a good contested game and accumulation. Then it's just about points of difference and whatever points of difference you have in those positions will inevitably work in the midfield if you have the aforementioned prerequesities. Especially as those points of differences also tend to be pretty universal, e.g. you're quick, an exceptional kick, explosive, the game slows down etc.

The Dawsons', Rozees' and Daicos', lads who come into the midfield once they're ready and dominate day one are the rule, not the exception.

Long stints of midfield in the 2's is for the mid-tier and not rated prospects alongside the ones who had their game fall apart on them (think Schoenberg or Berry) and need to find form. The kids who are rated, get shifted up to the 1s as quickly as possible. The kids who get stuck there aren't rated at that point in time.

For someone like Curtin, the ideal spot to be sitting him this year is as a defensive third tall. It's a (very) easy role to do well in and makes use of his height, marking and offensive skills. Also, it's one that has a history of being done successfully by kids as it does give a bit of freedom to attack the ball as an interceptor. Plus, it's a position where teams will trade some one-on-one or defensive nous for offensive ability. After all, intercepts and turnovers are one of the primary ways to score right now and one of the easier ways to generate fast plays.

 

[119others]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid that’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….and dont see where he would have fitted.

Here you go old son. 10 minutes to raise your spirits and not lose Faith after his first 150 minutes of footy.

Weagles and Freo both rated him top 2-3 last year (as per Weagles Board member) and Angry Alistair met with him the day before the draft which you don’t do unless you are some decent chance at getting picked at 2 or 3 the following day. Finallly Walter rated him as his hardest match up during the Nationals.

 

[Faaarrk]

Keane was on Hipwood, but the free kick was against Curtin for a hold.

Morris' first and the two Ah Chee goals were definitely on Curtin and I'm pretty sure Curtin was on Morris at the time of his second goal.

However, whether it's 4 or 5 is semantics. He had a bad day, but it's not the end of the world. And it's not indicative of how he's going to play once he irons out a couple of deficiencies. There didn't need to be a lot for him to adjust to have cut that to 2 goals, a bit more experience and it's down to one or two.

With Worrell out (not that they play the same style), I'd leave him in with some work-ons.

I see these games as a good day for inexperienced players. He would have learned a great deal from his mistakes. A good coach will let him know that and to keep his head up. Also not to drop him for the following week.

 

[George Kramer]

Now you're simply trolling .....looking for a fight

The sad thing is ...you actually believe the crap your post

Unlike you Wayne I don’t crave the attention.

As for being sad in believing what you post, have you read your posts lately and the reactions you’re getting?

 

[Pugsley]

What it comes down to is you don't develop midfielders by playing midfield in the SANFL. You develop midfielders by finding them a role at AFL level and letting them stress test their game there - and you suck up the bad part until their body catches up to them. Every position is tailor made to develop midfielders, and the idea of positions/roles being specialised and needing unique skillsets is long dead in the AFL - it's a game made for the generalists of the world. After all, players need a good contested game and to accumulate to be able succeed on the offensive side of the ball in any position and succeeding in the midfield is built off a good contested game and accumulation. Then it's just about points of difference and whatever points of difference you have in those positions will inevitably work in the midfield if you have the aforementioned prerequesities. Especially as those points of differences also tend to be pretty universal, e.g. you're quick, an exceptional kick, explosive, the game slows down etc.

The Dawsons', Rozees' and Daicos', lads who come into the midfield once they're ready and dominate day one are the rule, not the exception.

Long stints of midfield in the 2's is for the mid-tier and not rated prospects alongside the ones who had their game fall apart on them (think Schoenberg or Berry) and need to find form. The kids who are rated, get shifted up to the 1s as quickly as possible. The kids who get stuck there aren't rated at that point in time.

For someone like Curtin, the ideal spot to be sitting him this year is as a defensive third tall. It's a (very) easy role to do well in and makes use of his height, marking and offensive skills. Also, it's one that has a history of being done successfully by kids as it does give a bit of freedom to attack the ball as an interceptor. Plus, it's a position where teams will trade some one-on-one or defensive nous for offensive ability. After all, intercepts and turnovers are one of the primary ways to score right now and one of the easier ways to generate fast plays.

Hello Gary Ayres.

 

[119others]

What it comes down to is you don't develop midfielders by playing midfield in the SANFL. You develop midfielders by finding them a role at AFL level and letting them stress test their game there - and you suck up the bad part until their body catches up to them. Every position is tailor made to develop midfielders, and the idea of positions/roles being specialised and needing unique skillsets is long dead in the AFL - it's a game made for the generalists of the world. After all, players need a good contested game and to accumulate to be able succeed on the offensive side of the ball in any position and succeeding in the midfield is built off a good contested game and accumulation. Then it's just about points of difference and whatever points of difference you have in those positions will inevitably work in the midfield if you have the aforementioned prerequesities. Especially as those points of differences also tend to be pretty universal, e.g. you're quick, an exceptional kick, explosive, the game slows down etc.

The Dawsons', Rozees' and Daicos', lads who come into the midfield once they're ready and dominate day one are the rule, not the exception.

Long stints of midfield in the 2's is for the mid-tier and not rated prospects alongside the ones who had their game fall apart on them (think Schoenberg or Berry) and need to find form. The kids who are rated, get shifted up to the 1s as quickly as possible. The kids who get stuck there aren't rated at that point in time.

For someone like Curtin, the ideal spot to be sitting him this year is as a defensive third tall. It's a (very) easy role to do well in and makes use of his height, marking and offensive skills. Also, it's one that has a history of being done successfully by kids as it does give a bit of freedom to attack the ball as an interceptor. Plus, it's a position where teams will trade some one-on-one or defensive nous for offensive ability. After all, intercepts and turnovers are one of the primary ways to score right now and one of the easier ways to generate fast plays.

Genuinely insightful post expressed brilliantly. Well done mate.

 

[George Kramer]

What it comes down to is you don't develop midfielders by playing midfield in the SANFL. You develop midfielders by finding them a role at AFL level and letting them stress test their game there - and you suck up the bad part until their body catches up to them. Every position is tailor made to develop midfielders, and the idea of positions/roles being specialised and needing unique skillsets is long dead in the AFL - it's a game made for the generalists of the world. After all, players need a good contested game and to accumulate to be able succeed on the offensive side of the ball in any position and succeeding in the midfield is built off a good contested game and accumulation. Then it's just about points of difference and whatever points of difference you have in those positions will inevitably work in the midfield if you have the aforementioned prerequesities. Especially as those points of differences also tend to be pretty universal, e.g. you're quick, an exceptional kick, explosive, the game slows down etc.

The Dawsons', Rozees' and Daicos', lads who come into the midfield once they're ready and dominate day one are the rule, not the exception.

Long stints of midfield in the 2's is for the mid-tier and not rated prospects alongside the ones who had their game fall apart on them (think Schoenberg or Berry) and need to find form. The kids who are rated, get shifted up to the 1s as quickly as possible. The kids who get stuck there aren't rated at that point in time.

For someone like Curtin, the ideal spot to be sitting him this year is as a defensive third tall. It's a (very) easy role to do well in and makes use of his height, marking and offensive skills. Also, it's one that has a history of being done successfully by kids as it does give a bit of freedom to attack the ball as an interceptor. Plus, it's a position where teams will trade some one-on-one or defensive nous for offensive ability. After all, intercepts and turnovers are one of the primary ways to score right now and one of the easier ways to generate fast plays.

All fair enough but where do you think he will play the majority of his football this year, third defender in the AFL or the SANFL? If it’s the SANFL, what position?

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Yeah, would be happy if Curtin was retained for next week and we back him in to improve.

Can’t see it happening

 

[George Kramer]

By George you keep repeating this same thing. Can you point me to an official source confirming this? Or you are basing it on a brand new draftee trying to get settled into a specific (easier) position playing HBF or third tall in defence in his WHOLE 3 games in the SANFL? Will bookmark and see if he has been tried as a mid in his first contract as I would bet he will be.

Various people from the club have talked about his potential mid capabilities long term. Nobody official has ruled him out longer term as a mid from my perspective but happy for you to supply evidence to contradict this mate.

EDIT - please tell me you aren’t giving up on him already after 2 underwhelming games!

Have I said I’m giving up on him?

I said I’d be playing him half forward in the AFL or developing him as a mid in the SANFL.

 

[Bevoman]

Can’t see it happening

Or happy for next year where he will thinking about going back to WA

 

[Burtonsgottago]

I just don't understand how people thought you could just hide Curtin somewhere on the field and expect he wouldn't have to defend at all. They put him on the least threatening Brisbane forward, so clearly they were hoping Curtin could provide some rebound off HB and would be strong enough to defend if he had to. It was a poor game, s**t happens, not everyone is a star 2 games in! I much rather see him learn these lessons at AFL level though.

Curtin did not play well agreed, but I wonder how much he’s getting blamed for Hinges poor defensive efforts? Best to be the guy away from the action than the guy left chasing I guess.

 

[George Kramer]

Oh c’mon.

If you were brighter, I’d credit this as a master troll and not peak irony

Self awareness and Wayne don’t go together

 

[Trigger13]

Did Curtin cost us a few goals? Sure. Was he played in his best position? No. Are we achieving anything significant this year? If not, does bringing Will Hamill back in, or continuing to back Brodie Smith provide more long term benefit than playing Dan Curtin in a more offensive, less accountable role in defence (ie Smith’s role).

But Nicks is coaching for the now. Always has. Always will.

 

[adelaidecrows]

The list of things for which Nicks is responsible grows. Now it includes 'players appearing to move slowly'.

Do you think he designs the weights program? Or did he just intervene in this case? 'Make him big and slow', says Nicks.

Do you think weights programs at professional sports teams are designed to make players slower and less agile? And Curtin's program has achieved this goal in the 6 months he's been at the club?

Accepting the premise, if Curtin was a first year player at another club, do you think they'd want him not to put on size and strength?

Its not rocket science man. Do they want a skinny tall defender that can be easily moved off the ball? No, where did he immediately play Curtain, tall defender. What happened to McAsey against his opponents?

It has been the PR around Curtain that he is a running player, a tall running mid/defender, Am I right or wrong?

So the most basic of logic should suggest that his upper body strength and defensive techniques against better opponents was lacking, yes or no?

So, you would have to be completely daft to think Nicks would not demand someone prepare to be the position he wants them to play. If you get a marathon runner, chuck him into the weights room for 3 months with just a few 2km time trials and football training, how well do you think they will run their next marathon? Weights slow the body down. Its why tall mids are thinner than their defensive counter parts of the same height.

So to an immature body, through their first pre season and at a weight he isn't used to, he will not be as fast as we thought and that is every bit Nicks fault. If he trained him as a midfielder to boost his fitness, it is completely logical he would have moved a lot better.

This reminds me of Roo circa 95-96. Robert Shaw turned him into a midfield battering ram, he was slow, didn't move well but would run through his opponents. Blight put him back into a running program, he slimmed down a little and his performances sky rocketed. The key point is, never under estimated the power of a weights program on the body on someone who isn't used to it.

 

[NSolis]

All fair enough but where do you think he will play the majority of his football this year, third defender in the AFL or the SANFL? If it’s the SANFL, what position?

Fingers crossed it's Worrell's spot in the seniors and he can make a decent go of it. They're obviously not going to carry him if he's conceding a goal every time the ball gets near his opponent so I don't know if that's feasible but there's an opening there if he can grab it.

If he's back in the SANFL I think he'll be playing a similar role, defending either as a rebounding half-back or a negating defender with the occasional run up the ground the way he was for the first four weeks.

 

[dogs105]

1- Curtin had some goals kicked on him and struggled to defend 1-1.

2- He should have been moved, not subbed.

3 - He should not be dropped this week.

 

[George Kramer]

Fingers crossed it's Worrell's spot in the seniors and he can make a decent go of it. They're obviously not going to carry him if he's conceding a goal every time the ball gets near his opponent so I don't know if that's feasible but there's an opening there if he can grab it.

If he's back in the SANFL I think he'll be playing a similar role, defending either as a rebounding half-back or a negating defender with the occasional run up the ground the way he was for the first four weeks.

I agree but his argument was you don’t learn midfield in the SANFL, you develop in the AFL and then play midfield once developed.

If he’s not playing AFL and we see him as a mid, wouldn’t the next logical step midfield development be SANFL midfield?

 

[Samcro24]

Have I said I’m giving up on him?

I said I’d be playing him half forward in the AFL or developing him as a mid in the SANFL.

You should.

The rigid, unimaginative, key defender obsessed AFC drafted a defender who can’t defend.

He’ll play full back in the 2s for longer than it takes to say Prestigiacomo.

This has disaster written all over it.

 

[adelaidecrows]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid that’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….and dont see where he would have fitted.

I don't think Nicks had a lot to do with Curtins recruitment. Its clear from the outset Hamish and Co wanted Curtin as he was a genuine star player in his position and they have always said with their first pick they will get the best player they can in the draft.

But Nicks, being the ever defensive minded individual, saw our lack of defensive height and immediately wanted our 197cm running player to be a big bodied defender. Curtin being a tall running mid/defender is probably is known more for his intercept and run of half back and being a 1:1 defender is not something he ever has known.

And then we have some daft replies thinking Curtin is slow and bashing me for daring to suggest Nicks is every bit demanding Curtin put on muscle mass for a role as a tall defender and thus making him the slow player we saw on the weekend.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I agree but his argument was you don’t learn midfield in the SANFL, you develop in the AFL and then play midfield once developed.

If he’s not playing AFL and we see him as a mid, wouldn’t the next logical step midfield development be SANFL midfield?

That relies on a coach interested in playing him midfield first. This has never been Nicks. He is predictable and he has only ever seen Curtin as a tall big bodied defender.

 

[NSolis]

I agree but his argument was you don’t learn midfield in the SANFL, you develop in the AFL and then play midfield once developed.

If he’s not playing AFL and we see him as a mid, wouldn’t the next logical step midfield development be SANFL midfield?

Well it's anyone's guess what we see him as, in my opinion we see him as rebounding defender who could potentially play other roles down the track. Certainly not a Talia style KPD but I think very clearly a defender. But we felt he needed to work on his defensive game hence having him work on that in the SANFL. My view would be to continue doing that noting that his most likely role at AFL level at first would be half-back flanker or defensive third tall. I'd prefer him to do that in the AFL over the SANFL but he does need to be able to be competitive defensively for that to work.

Down the track maybe he plays mid, maybe he doesn't, but I don't think that's happening in the next couple of years so better to prepare him for the role he's going to be playing in the seniors.

 

[adelaidecrows]

You should.

The rigid, unimaginative, key defender obsessed AFC drafted a defender who can’t defend.

He’ll play full back in the 2s for longer than it takes to say Prestigiacomo.

This has disaster written all over it.

We didn't draft Curtin to play the position Nicks wants him to play. Everyone knows this. No one from the club not even Curtin in any bit of PR said big bodied defender. Curtin was all about midfield and using his run of HB. He can't defend because he has never played it. Nicks is the one here going against the grain and only seeing height and immediately thinking big bodied defender.

 

[NSolis]

We didn't draft Curtin to play the position Nicks wants him to play. Everyone knows this. No one from the club not even Curtin in any bit of PR said big bodied defender. Curtin was all about midfield and using his run of HB. He can't defend because he has never played it. Nicks is the one here going against the grain and only seeing height and immediately thinking big bodied defender.

What? Basically every piece of media about Curtin before, on and after draft night referred to him as the best key defender in the draft, including from the club. Go read the AFC's press release on drafting him. This is just completely wrong.

The club has always referred to him as a defender, and sometimes also noted that he has played midfield and compared him to more versatile and aggressive defenders like Birchall.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Well it's anyone's guess what we see him as, in my opinion we see him as rebounding defender who could potentially play other roles down the track. Certainly not a Talia style KPD but I think very clearly a defender. But we felt he needed to work on his defensive game hence having him work on that in the SANFL. My view would be to continue doing that noting that his most likely role at AFL level at first would be half-back flanker or defensive third tall. I'd prefer him to do that in the AFL over the SANFL but he does need to be able to be competitive defensively for that to work.

Down the track maybe he plays mid, maybe he doesn't, but I don't think that's happening in the next couple of years so better to prepare him for the role he's going to be playing in the seniors.

He should be a taller version of Max. But for that you need to train him to be that running half back flanker. I dont understand this need to train him as a tall back pocket on big bodied Sanfl forwards if thats not where we are going to play him.

 

[Sanders]

Unlike you Wayne I don’t crave the attention.

As for being sad in believing what you post, have you read your posts lately and the reactions you’re getting?

He’s the anti Mutineer, whose gone into hiding, turned his profile to private and seems to be trying to avoid anyone knowing what he’s doing

So what bet did he lose????