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Universal Love David Teague

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carlton_99 said:
That has literally been Carlton's slogan for the last 15 years. Time to back a coach in and give him proper support.
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I am sick of Carlton sacking coaches, but...

We lose the same way every week and I am struggling to see improvement in the gameplan - both within a match and over the season.

Whether that's gameplan or players not being drilled well enough... Either way that screams coach problem to me...
 
slowhand clape said:
One thing Lyon and particularly Scott would bring is an "Us vs Them" mentality. It might not seem like much but it helps with the buy-in from players.

The way Ross marshalled Freo when they were sent down to KP to play the Cats in a final was magnificent.
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Anywhere , Anytime !!!!
 
I’ve got a feel it will be between Lyon or Pyke , either bloke would be a good choice for a rudderless team, just a gut feel.
Our team culture & game plan need urgent attention.
 
ferrisb said:
I am sick of Carlton sacking coaches, but...

We lose the same way every week and I am struggling to see improvement in the gameplan - both within a match and over the season.

Whether that's gameplan or players not being drilled well enough... Either way that screams coach problem to me...
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Sack the sackers
 

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ferrisb said:
I am sick of Carlton sacking coaches, but...

We lose the same way every week and I am struggling to see improvement in the gameplan - both within a match and over the season.

Whether that's gameplan or players not being drilled well enough... Either way that screams coach problem to me...
Click to expand...

Same page as you FB.

What I have 100% confidence in is if Lyon/Scott walk through our doors, the minute they see the trademark Carlton soft touch approach from any player, they’ll be in the reserves quicker than the speed of light.

What we’ve seen from players like McGovern, Murphy, SPS on occasion will not be tolerated.
 
jpfalvo said:
Im hearing Pyke, Scott or Lyon.

Clarkson is out.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
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Could live with Scott or Lyon.

We've just tried two untried coaches for the rebuild. Probably time to go with experience.

Two guys who got absolutely everything out of the sides they coached.
 
How far away are we from forming a ticket to set a board challenge? Compared to us Collingwood have had relative success recently and they are not happy with the situation their.

We have had 20 years of mediocrity and let the so called power of the club dictate who we have in charge. Yes they might have listened to the fans in the appointment of Teague, but was that because it was to keep us happy so the top echelon of board members escape scrutiny?
 
In my opinion the pros of moving on Teague now outweigh the cons as there enough evidence to suggest his judgment is wrong and there simply isn’t a body of work to suggest he deserves more time, examples being:
- continually picking players out of position once it’s clear they cannot adapt to that new role (Samo, Setters etc)
- inability to limit the strengths of the opposition team with poor match day match ups (Cunningham on Lever vs Dees, Ed tagging Cripps on HFF v West Coast instead of Yeo, Gaff or Sheed in midfield)
- poor team selections (picking Setters underdone vs Geelong, Murphy sub vs Roos when not 100% match fit)
- poor system that does not match players strengths and weaknesses (insistence on playing a high defensive press without the players to implement a complementary transition defence, and not more than maybe one easily identifiable 4 quarter performance over his entire tenure to suggest the game plan is sustainable)

There have been glimmers of hope over the journey (Dogs game last year, better team defence by not pressing as high since the bye this season and some good in game adjustments vs Collingwood and Adelaide) but yesterdays performance was so bad it suggests his message is not resonating with the players and I just don’t see the board tolerating it any longer.

He is certainly not alone in criticism and other examples of failures include:
- Board appointing an inexperienced CEO, Football manager and Head Coach
- CEO getting FM and HC appointments wrong, and his unedifying dealing with SOS
- Football Manager did not appoint new assistants for Teague at the end of last year and did no formal internal review at the end of last year (compare that to West Coast doing an external review every second year)
- List management offered Williams an A grade midfielder contract when he didn’t have the experience or fitness to play there, delisted 3 back up KPPs and not replacing any of them like for like leaving us exposed to lack of depth from injuries and overflow of similar type midfielders we simply cannot fit in the same team leading to out of form players repeatedly getting picked and other players being played out of position to fill gaps

Obviously there has been some bad luck along the way with long term injuries to the likes of Marchbank and Charlie in particular, and COVID has clearly limited development with its impact on reserves football.

That all said there is a nucleus of players that I believe a premiership team can be built around with the right people supporting them. This leads me to believe that there needs to be a clean out of the Football department including Football Manager, Head Coach, Assistants and List Managers. I also hope the new Chair and Football Director appointments can give better support to Liddell who will probably be retained.

The Head Coach role is clearly the most important and I do believe given the recent experience of Teague and Bolton we now need proven experience in this role. I’m not sure I like the idea of Clarkson as I do get the feel he is looking for a break, but clearly he is rated by our power brokers as he should be. Could a team of Clarkson and Leppitsch/Yze/Caracella/McRae as senior assistant with a possible handover ala Roos/Goodwin work? It may be too complicated so perhaps the answer is much simpler, that is Lyon. I know he comes with baggage but he has a proven track record of successfully turning around underperforming teams and doesn’t have a flag so he has still something to prove and gives every impression he is itching get back in the game. He also is a Carlton person who understands the way the club works. Lyon was an excellent match day coach making the right adjustments in game. He was also big on structure and discipline and wasn’t afraid to make hard calls (dropping Montagna, Dal Santo, sending Walters back to the WAFL, trading out Luke Ball). He also backed players in he believed in (Walters credited him with turning his life around...could he do something similar with Samo and/or Setters?). All this is sadly missing at the moment at Carlton.

The Football Manager role is also important but with a strong senior coach perhaps not as important that it’s some with experience in that role but as a minimum I’d still be looking for someone from a successful football department like Richmond, West Coast, Geelong or Sydney, or someone the head coach has worked with successfully before.

Sayers will obviously take the chair which doesn’t overly bother me, so then Football Director needs to be a respected ex Carlton player (but not too old school) who’s a good media performer. This role is not as straight forward as of the recent crop only Carrazzo, Kreuzer or Simmo come to mind, so do we entertain the return of the prodigal son Aaron Hammill or an ex player who grew up supporting Carlton (dare I say it Goddard?).

Long post but my view is it’s inevitable we need to make changes to make progress.
 
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ferrisb said:
I am sick of Carlton sacking coaches, but...

We lose the same way every week and I am struggling to see improvement in the gameplan - both within a match and over the season.

Whether that's gameplan or players not being drilled well enough... Either way that screams coach problem to me...
Click to expand...
katmanblue said:
Sack the sackers
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This may be the smartest silly response I've ever seen.
 
branedotorg said:
You don't need to name names but for me the defining moment was Murphy as captain.

I never liked it and I never thought he was a leader, aside from being one of our best players at the time.
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I too thought Murphy as captain was the wrong move - a great and loyal player but certainly not leadership material. To my mind we made a huge mistake in not making our little champion Simmo captain.
 
Teague has been set up to fail from day 1. This is not all on the coach. Others need to take responsibility ie players and def footy operations. Who have they surrounded Teague with second rate assistants, and no right hand man. Geelong didn’t give up on Scott at the start, Richmond didn’t give up on Hardwick, Melbourne didn’t give up on Goodwin. They surrounded them with the right people. Lloyd and Liddle should be first in line to go. If you do replace the coach and make him the scape goat, in my opinion you don’t go the quick fix in Clarkson. I have questions about his motivations after being in the game so long. If you replace the coach, I would go Caracella who has more than done his apprenticeship and in my view has been a massive reason for Geelong, Richmond and now Essendons success. But again its about surrounding him with the right people to succeed. Our soft club will go the quick fix, rather than fix the true root of the problem. The coach is the scape goat again. The people running the joint have no clue. Let’s just sack the coach!!!!!!!
 
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BlueZombie said:
I too thought Murphy as captain was the wrong move - a great and loyal player but certainly not leadership material. To my mind we made a huge mistake in not making our little champion Simmo captain.
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Or carrots. He could of handed it to simmo who could have handed it crippa


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Investing in player development, that’s the coaches fault. Having John barker as your senior assistant and in charge of your mids and stoppages, that’s the coaches fault. The fitness of our players struggling to run two ways and run out 4 quarters, that’s the coaches fault. Not surrounding the coach with quality assistants, that’s the coaches fault. Having a nonsense review as a facade to sack the coach after 2 years … this club needs to wake up to itself on what it takes to set people up for success. Yet again we will go the easy option. The poor blokes career is destroyed, cos this is all on him right? We deserve to be the laughing stock we are.
 
Zlatan said:
Same page as you FB.

What I have 100% confidence in is if Lyon/Scott walk through our doors, the minute they see the trademark Carlton soft touch approach from any player, they’ll be in the reserves quicker than the speed of light.

What we’ve seen from players like McGovern, Murphy, SPS on occasion will not be tolerated.
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Which is why I'm actually quite surprised this playing group is playing Teague out of a job with lacklustre effort (notwithstanding the shitty structure).

Do they realise the alternative is ****ing hard work and accountability? Careers will be jeopardised.
 
jj1978 said:
No way to Leppitsch... bad vibes and think he’s not up to it
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Yes would be a good replacement for Lloyd maybe.. but he isn't a senior coach that oozes follow what I believe in and we will win ..
just let Lyon come in bring whichever staff he likes pay the tax for the over spend on cap with all the payouts that need to be made .. Lyon not doing it for the money he wants to fulfil his dream if he still has the passion Ross is still the Boss - he can score if he has the cattle and he can choke sides and make it a fight if he doesn't have the weapons to score heavy .. his ex players mostly talk well of him which is also good ..he has lived in that Perth bubble so the weight of expectation from being a big 4 club won't distract him
I like Scott but I feel his destiny is with the AFL and his brother put a few things out there about how the life was taking a toll on him in the end ..
 

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RoyalBlues said:
Pyke, Leppitsch, Scott, Lyon

one of the above (at least) will be coaching Carlton next year.
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For God's sake lets rule out the first 3 and go with a Safer option for once. Love everything about what Leppitsch has to say, seems very Astute, but if we went with a 3rd untried coach I think the supporters would tear the place apart. Scott a big NO from me, no opinion of Pyke either way.

Lyon or Bust
(Though I think I'd have a good crack at getting Choco)
 
BlueTongue said:
For God's sake lets rule out the first 3 and go with a Safer option for once. Love everything about what Leppitsch has to say, seems very Astute, but if we went with a 3rd untried coach I think the supporters would tear the place apart. Scott a big NO from me, no opinion of Pyke either way.

Lyon or Bust
(Though I think I'd have a good crack at getting Choco)
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Leppitsch isn’t untried. He coached Brisbane for a few years .... and failed miserably.
 
I feel a bit sorry for Teague because a lot of the problem is the culture of the place. Players do not give 100%. Low level effort, lack of aggression not committing to contests, not committing to chasing. Coach can demand it all they want, this has to be driven by the leadership group.

"Fit in or f*** off" a quote from Clarkson to Josh Gibson that helped make his career. Reckon our leaders or coaches are going to be that forward with those who don't put in? I have my doubts.

A lot of questions being asked about Teague and rightfully so but Cripps, Docherty and the rest of our leaders need to be held accountable because as far as I am concerned no one at our club has any clue about leadership and driving culture. If they did, what happened on the weekend wouldn't have happened.

Lack of leadership driving a nothing culture is as big an issue as poor coaching tactics.
 

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Universal Love David Teague

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