i think onley 1 of them can play in our 22 who would u choose? me dawes his strong tough breaks packs open eveything anthony cant do . i think for anthony to get back in our team he needs to kick another 5 next week in the vfl
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Dawes vs. Anthony
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Re: dawes vs anthony
anthony to play in the backline ala james Clement
Rusling to play as a third forward
anthony to play in the backline ala james Clement
Rusling to play as a third forward
Re: dawes vs anthony
I think people are getting a bit carried away still. Dawes is strong and certainly played strong yesterday, I haven't seen much any real proof to show that he "breaks packs open" in any sense of the word. He has taken two marks going back with the flight now but whilst a real admireable sign of courage taking a mark going back with the flight isn't something a foward should be doing too often, it's a nice sign and inspiring stuff but not the sort of skill that you will get to put on show too often and hence not something that is all that important in the scheme of things.
Right now with the way our structure has looked with Dawes in the team and the football that Dawes and Anthony have played so far this season there is no doubt the spot of second key foward is in the hand of Dawes but he still have a few tests to overcome.
He has had the perfect supply both in quality and quantity in the first two rounds and has had far more space to operate in up the ground then is usually given too fowards.
FWIW I am still not sure how the foward line will work out towards the end of the year, Anthony is probably the more solid and complete player and Dawes at the moment looks much better too our structures.
Comparing the two
Anthony- Pro's: Better defensively, better in a contest, chases harder, kicks straight, plays deep, sound hands.
Con's - More one dimensional, Plays deep so he doesn't clear the space or get the amount of possesions that Dawes does, not as strong one on one body on body.
Dawes- Pro's Presents better, creates space with his work load, Draws defenders into a contest.
Con's- Poor overhead marking, slow,
At the moment with the space and delivery Dawes is suited perfectly, he is presenting well and getting good kicks and has the time and space to take the ball on his chest. Yesterday he also had the advantage of playing against a guy who he had a massive size advantage over and was able to monster for strength. If this continues he will play as well if not better then he has over the last couple of weeks.
Unfortunately it's highly unlikely. We are going to be pushed harder in the midfield. We are going to be put under more pressure. He will have defenders who put up a better fight physically, the midfield pressure will cause our attacks to be less precise and not all teams are going to do a Carlton and bet so heavily on winning the ball at stoppage and in the center.
The spots his at the moment but I don't think he is neccisarily the better foward nor am I sold on him holding his spot long term at the moment. I do look foward to him being challenged though because I think that is the best way for him to really have to work on these weaknesses is for them to be exploited.
I think people are getting a bit carried away still. Dawes is strong and certainly played strong yesterday, I haven't seen much any real proof to show that he "breaks packs open" in any sense of the word. He has taken two marks going back with the flight now but whilst a real admireable sign of courage taking a mark going back with the flight isn't something a foward should be doing too often, it's a nice sign and inspiring stuff but not the sort of skill that you will get to put on show too often and hence not something that is all that important in the scheme of things.
Right now with the way our structure has looked with Dawes in the team and the football that Dawes and Anthony have played so far this season there is no doubt the spot of second key foward is in the hand of Dawes but he still have a few tests to overcome.
He has had the perfect supply both in quality and quantity in the first two rounds and has had far more space to operate in up the ground then is usually given too fowards.
FWIW I am still not sure how the foward line will work out towards the end of the year, Anthony is probably the more solid and complete player and Dawes at the moment looks much better too our structures.
Comparing the two
Anthony- Pro's: Better defensively, better in a contest, chases harder, kicks straight, plays deep, sound hands.
Con's - More one dimensional, Plays deep so he doesn't clear the space or get the amount of possesions that Dawes does, not as strong one on one body on body.
Dawes- Pro's Presents better, creates space with his work load, Draws defenders into a contest.
Con's- Poor overhead marking, slow,
At the moment with the space and delivery Dawes is suited perfectly, he is presenting well and getting good kicks and has the time and space to take the ball on his chest. Yesterday he also had the advantage of playing against a guy who he had a massive size advantage over and was able to monster for strength. If this continues he will play as well if not better then he has over the last couple of weeks.
Unfortunately it's highly unlikely. We are going to be pushed harder in the midfield. We are going to be put under more pressure. He will have defenders who put up a better fight physically, the midfield pressure will cause our attacks to be less precise and not all teams are going to do a Carlton and bet so heavily on winning the ball at stoppage and in the center.
The spots his at the moment but I don't think he is neccisarily the better foward nor am I sold on him holding his spot long term at the moment. I do look foward to him being challenged though because I think that is the best way for him to really have to work on these weaknesses is for them to be exploited.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
Well, Dawes easily.
Provides a presence that Anthony lacks. He's a real key forward who just needs to work on a bit of pace and maybe his kicking sometimes. However, you can't fault this kids work ethic.
Anthony is a bit of a one trick pony. Basically, he'll get 4 possessions a week and 3 might be goals, however his accuracy dropped and he became a liability. Nowhere near Dawes in terms of value to the side. Dawes will work harder, get the side more opportunities, bring the ball to ground for Leon and Medhurst etc.
Well, Dawes easily.
Provides a presence that Anthony lacks. He's a real key forward who just needs to work on a bit of pace and maybe his kicking sometimes. However, you can't fault this kids work ethic.
Anthony is a bit of a one trick pony. Basically, he'll get 4 possessions a week and 3 might be goals, however his accuracy dropped and he became a liability. Nowhere near Dawes in terms of value to the side. Dawes will work harder, get the side more opportunities, bring the ball to ground for Leon and Medhurst etc.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
Shawthing I don't think I would call Dawes Slow, Well not being Fast Either but he is not slow
Shawthing I don't think I would call Dawes Slow, Well not being Fast Either but he is not slow
jezzap
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Re: dawes vs anthony
I think there is space for both of them, they are quite different forwards, and I think Jack could do very well on the third tall defender. It would really push opposition back lines to find suitable match ups.
You could argue that it might make our forward line a bit slow when the opposition rebounds, but I'd still like to see Mick try it for a few weeks to see how it works.
I think there is space for both of them, they are quite different forwards, and I think Jack could do very well on the third tall defender. It would really push opposition back lines to find suitable match ups.
You could argue that it might make our forward line a bit slow when the opposition rebounds, but I'd still like to see Mick try it for a few weeks to see how it works.
Re: dawes vs anthony
In AFL terms he is slow no other word for it, not just lacking a yard of pace but outright slow, watch any of his chasing efforts on the weekend and the ease in which all players get away from him and how quickly they break away.
As for playing the three of them I don't see it working in recent history I can't remember a 3 tall fowardline being effective pretty much ever. The 3rd tall types who have been moderately succesful are generally guys who play like tall linking wing players with the ability to go deeper foward and exploit match ups.
The 2 most likely set ups at the moment are Cloke Dawes Medhurst. Cloke and Dawes rotating between going high up the ground for kicks and staying deeper. Medhurst playing as a leading foward deep (in this case it is Medhurst keeping Anthony out of the side more then anything)
Or Anthony Cloke Medhurst Anthony playing the deep leading FF, Medhurst going higher and playing a linking leading HFF and Cloke playing his usual role.
In AFL terms he is slow no other word for it, not just lacking a yard of pace but outright slow, watch any of his chasing efforts on the weekend and the ease in which all players get away from him and how quickly they break away.
As for playing the three of them I don't see it working in recent history I can't remember a 3 tall fowardline being effective pretty much ever. The 3rd tall types who have been moderately succesful are generally guys who play like tall linking wing players with the ability to go deeper foward and exploit match ups.
The 2 most likely set ups at the moment are Cloke Dawes Medhurst. Cloke and Dawes rotating between going high up the ground for kicks and staying deeper. Medhurst playing as a leading foward deep (in this case it is Medhurst keeping Anthony out of the side more then anything)
Or Anthony Cloke Medhurst Anthony playing the deep leading FF, Medhurst going higher and playing a linking leading HFF and Cloke playing his usual role.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
I will Check That Out mate but Rocca was not much better when he played Either with pace
I will Check That Out mate but Rocca was not much better when he played Either with pace
Re: dawes vs anthony
Indeed Rocca wasn't any better are you arguing that Rocca wasn't slow? I'd actually argue Rocca's first step was actually a fair bit better then Dawes by the way (obviously talking Rocca pre 2005)
He is slow that is all I am saying now that doesn't have to be a problem but it can be.
Rocca was fantastically strong overhead and took the ball very high so it didn't matter if defenders kept up with him on the lead he took the ball out of reach. If Dawes keeps getting that kind of space and quality of the ball coming in it won't be a problem for him either.
Indeed Rocca wasn't any better are you arguing that Rocca wasn't slow? I'd actually argue Rocca's first step was actually a fair bit better then Dawes by the way (obviously talking Rocca pre 2005)
He is slow that is all I am saying now that doesn't have to be a problem but it can be.
Rocca was fantastically strong overhead and took the ball very high so it didn't matter if defenders kept up with him on the lead he took the ball out of reach. If Dawes keeps getting that kind of space and quality of the ball coming in it won't be a problem for him either.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
I think we have to stop bring up Rusling. He has to come a long way before we start saying Anthony to the back line and Rusling to ff.
As for Anthony to defense whose spot his he going to take? At the moment its forward or nothing. If we are going to play both of them then Fraser is out. We cant play Cloke Dawes and Anthony and still have Fraser or Wood in the side. Dawes can pinch hit in the ruck if we go this way but i cant see MM doing it.
Dawes is in until Anthony does enough to take his spot. If Dawes keeps playing well then Anthony will just have to wait.
I think we have to stop bring up Rusling. He has to come a long way before we start saying Anthony to the back line and Rusling to ff.
As for Anthony to defense whose spot his he going to take? At the moment its forward or nothing. If we are going to play both of them then Fraser is out. We cant play Cloke Dawes and Anthony and still have Fraser or Wood in the side. Dawes can pinch hit in the ruck if we go this way but i cant see MM doing it.
Dawes is in until Anthony does enough to take his spot. If Dawes keeps playing well then Anthony will just have to wait.
jezzap
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Re: dawes vs anthony
The Cats are doing it at the moment with Pods, Mooney and Hawkins. I suppose only time will tell if that is going to work, but they did kick 11-6 between them on the weekend (and yes, I know they were only playing the Tigers). Johnson kicked another 5 himself, who I'd say plays a similar role to Medhurst in our forward line, so I reckon the structure can work.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
So as long as Dawes gets Good Delivery and Marks then he should be fine
So as long as Dawes gets Good Delivery and Marks then he should be fine
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Re: dawes vs anthony
They were destroyed by the only decent team the triple towers have been up against in Carlton last week. I don't see it being able to work with defenders being expected to create as well as defend these days, it makes it too easy. IMO unless Jack is employed as a swingman ala Adam Hunter, we shouldn't play with all 3 as permanent forwards.
They were destroyed by the only decent team the triple towers have been up against in Carlton last week. I don't see it being able to work with defenders being expected to create as well as defend these days, it makes it too easy. IMO unless Jack is employed as a swingman ala Adam Hunter, we shouldn't play with all 3 as permanent forwards.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
Definitely room for the both of them depending on match-ups.
IMO, Jack is far too good to be playing VFL footy and everybody on this forum knows it.
Definitely room for the both of them depending on match-ups.
IMO, Jack is far too good to be playing VFL footy and everybody on this forum knows it.
twoforjoy
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Re: dawes vs anthony
Dawes makes ourv forward structure look way better. But I like Jack and think he offers something to the side. Could we develop him as a swingman to go either back or forward or needed?
Dawes makes ourv forward structure look way better. But I like Jack and think he offers something to the side. Could we develop him as a swingman to go either back or forward or needed?
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Re: dawes vs anthony
ATM I'm thinking Jack is a very good depth player unfortunately for him. And if selected would be a very versatile utility to be rotated off the bench - could go forward, back and even pinch-hit as a midfielder, or even fill in in the ruck in a pinch.
Still learning the trade and could get a lot better.
ATM I'm thinking Jack is a very good depth player unfortunately for him. And if selected would be a very versatile utility to be rotated off the bench - could go forward, back and even pinch-hit as a midfielder, or even fill in in the ruck in a pinch.
Still learning the trade and could get a lot better.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
Dawes is a big strong key forward compared to JA being a third tall. I think there is room for the 3 of them ala Cats with Podsiadley this year. If not at the moment I think Dawes has the spot covered. JA will have to keep playing good footy in the magoos.
Dawes is a big strong key forward compared to JA being a third tall. I think there is room for the 3 of them ala Cats with Podsiadley this year. If not at the moment I think Dawes has the spot covered. JA will have to keep playing good footy in the magoos.
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Ickirus
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Re: dawes vs anthony
Dawes at the moment is looking good, but Anthony was still able to kick 50 goals last season playing on the best defenders every week, and bar Medhurst no other player has been able to achieve this, which is a huge achievement in itself.
Anthony is far superior at crashing packs and bringing the ball down than Dawes, yes Dawes may be a wopping 1cm taller than Anthony, and some substantial kilos heavier, but he doesn't crash any packs, and besides yesterday I've never really seen him use his strength to its fullest capacity. Anthony applies more defensive pressure, than Cloke, and especially Dawes. Anthony is a better kick for goal, and is superior overhead mark. Anthony also attracts the best tall defender, leaving Cloke with the lesser tall defender.
In contrast, Dawes has a better tank and endurance, which allows him to get more ball moving up the ground. Dawes is also generally a good set shot for goal, and has reasonable skills for a big man. Dawes has more strength currently than Anthony, but he will need to keep using it like he did against the Blues. Dawes major weakness is his overhead marking, and the better defenders are able to spoil chest marks much easier than when their opponent takes the ball out in front.
At their best Anthony would be ahead, and if he puts on another 5 kilos or more, he could become a great FF, however currently he is not at his best, due to injuries, and other issues, and needs at least another week in the VFL to get some run into him, and hence Dawes keeps his spot as he rightly deserves.
I'm happy for either of these guys playing, just so long as I never see L.Brown playing in the seniors again.
Dawes at the moment is looking good, but Anthony was still able to kick 50 goals last season playing on the best defenders every week, and bar Medhurst no other player has been able to achieve this, which is a huge achievement in itself.
Anthony is far superior at crashing packs and bringing the ball down than Dawes, yes Dawes may be a wopping 1cm taller than Anthony, and some substantial kilos heavier, but he doesn't crash any packs, and besides yesterday I've never really seen him use his strength to its fullest capacity. Anthony applies more defensive pressure, than Cloke, and especially Dawes. Anthony is a better kick for goal, and is superior overhead mark. Anthony also attracts the best tall defender, leaving Cloke with the lesser tall defender.
In contrast, Dawes has a better tank and endurance, which allows him to get more ball moving up the ground. Dawes is also generally a good set shot for goal, and has reasonable skills for a big man. Dawes has more strength currently than Anthony, but he will need to keep using it like he did against the Blues. Dawes major weakness is his overhead marking, and the better defenders are able to spoil chest marks much easier than when their opponent takes the ball out in front.
At their best Anthony would be ahead, and if he puts on another 5 kilos or more, he could become a great FF, however currently he is not at his best, due to injuries, and other issues, and needs at least another week in the VFL to get some run into him, and hence Dawes keeps his spot as he rightly deserves.
I'm happy for either of these guys playing, just so long as I never see L.Brown playing in the seniors again.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
There isn't enough room for them all in the forward 50, however with our zone and recent running game I wouldn't mind seeing how the Cloke, Dawes and Anthony worked where Cloke played more on a wing and Dawes and Anthony the main targets.
There isn't enough room for them all in the forward 50, however with our zone and recent running game I wouldn't mind seeing how the Cloke, Dawes and Anthony worked where Cloke played more on a wing and Dawes and Anthony the main targets.
simpin68
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Re: dawes vs anthony
I think dawes may have slipped under the radar the first two games and now he will start attracting some attention from opposition players, this will be the real test. If he doesn't get any goals then people will start calling for his head and demand JA be put back
I vote dawes, apart from his good work in the last two games, he just seems more of a team man to me than JA, (Can't base that on anything) an important attribute that you can't measure as MM says.
I think dawes may have slipped under the radar the first two games and now he will start attracting some attention from opposition players, this will be the real test. If he doesn't get any goals then people will start calling for his head and demand JA be put back
I vote dawes, apart from his good work in the last two games, he just seems more of a team man to me than JA, (Can't base that on anything) an important attribute that you can't measure as MM says.
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Re: dawes vs anthony
My view is simple. Dawes has been given a chance...and so far, in my opinion, he has taken that chance and made the most of it. Maybe he just needs to be a little more aggressive.
While he may look slow...he has not had a decent constant run imo at AFL intensity. Quickness will come the more he plays at this intensity level as his muscles adjust to the quicker pace.
My view is simple. Dawes has been given a chance...and so far, in my opinion, he has taken that chance and made the most of it. Maybe he just needs to be a little more aggressive.
While he may look slow...he has not had a decent constant run imo at AFL intensity. Quickness will come the more he plays at this intensity level as his muscles adjust to the quicker pace.
theaussietilt
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Re: dawes vs anthony
Living in Queensland these days I've only been to two games in the last three years and it's pretty hard to see a player's workrate on the telly. I reckon I've seen a few games in the past though where JA has been able to push up onto the wings and back flank and provide that strong marking option and neat kick to running players in games where he hasn't had much of an impact up forward. If this became his "instruction" for the game and have him floating forward at times do you think he could be the third tall type player you talk about?
Regarding Dawes it seems to me over the last few games that his trouble ATM isn't necessarily sticking the overhead grabs, moreso that when the ball gets put on his head he doesn't get the elevation or the big backside out to negate the spoiler from behind. Is it body positioning in the contest that he needs to learn from big Ant moreso than the clunk?
Living in Queensland these days I've only been to two games in the last three years and it's pretty hard to see a player's workrate on the telly. I reckon I've seen a few games in the past though where JA has been able to push up onto the wings and back flank and provide that strong marking option and neat kick to running players in games where he hasn't had much of an impact up forward. If this became his "instruction" for the game and have him floating forward at times do you think he could be the third tall type player you talk about?
Regarding Dawes it seems to me over the last few games that his trouble ATM isn't necessarily sticking the overhead grabs, moreso that when the ball gets put on his head he doesn't get the elevation or the big backside out to negate the spoiler from behind. Is it body positioning in the contest that he needs to learn from big Ant moreso than the clunk?
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