Depression - not a chemical imbalance?

[John Who]

I'm wondering if there is a link to that brain process, such as it being a runaway version of peer pressure trying to keep the group moving together (like how yawning is a socially sympathetic action) and those who aren't in the same path as the rest of their peers feel bad and are motivated by that feeling to get in line. The world is so big now and there are so many paths to take that not taking a path is seen as independent, right at the time teenagers are trying to find their own identity.

Perhaps clinical depression is the runaway chemical process of that.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong vantage point. Depression is the end-result of our brains being overworked/overthink, and we then get a cluster of symptoms which suggests to clinicians or surrounding families/friends that we "need to have a break".
I don't believe depression is a choice you make, but a sign your brain is failing to work, no matter how hard you push it further.

Your line of thought would be similar to asking "what is the evolutionary purpose of liver cirrhosis or heart failure?" The answer is there is no real purpose, just the situation that your liver has had enough of your alcoholism, or your heart has had enough of your smoking/or eating one too many French fries!

 

[Taylor]

I think you're looking at it from the wrong vantage point. Depression is the end-result of our brains being overworked/overthink, and we then get a cluster of symptoms which suggests to clinicians or surrounding families/friends that we "need to have a break".
I don't believe depression is a choice you make, but a sign your brain is failing to work, no matter how hard you push it further.

Your line of thought would be similar to asking "what is the evolutionary purpose of liver cirrhosis or heart failure?" The answer is there is no real purpose, just the situation that your liver has had enough of your alcoholism, or your heart has had enough of your smoking/or eating one too many French fries!

I think certain people are susceptible to it over others, not a matter of work done because the same "stimulation" doesn't result in the same result.

The diseases you mention are a result of sustained damage, a more fair analogy to compare to what I was suggesting is a natural function that doesn't work correctly in some people such as diabetes (type 1), auto-immune conditions etc.

Essentially showing that your body is supposed to make you feel bad when you don't fit in because those who have fitted in have succeeded, but depression is now when your body has pushed that too far.

Rather than identifying it as a new condition, if it were a runaway result of a natural condition then it allows better treatments.

 

[Run n Spread]

I think certain people are susceptible to it over others, not a matter of work done because the same "stimulation" doesn't result in the same result.

The diseases you mention are a result of sustained damage, a more fair analogy to compare to what I was suggesting is a natural function that doesn't work correctly in some people such as diabetes (type 1), auto-immune conditions etc.

Essentially showing that your body is supposed to make you feel bad when you don't fit in because those who have fitted in have succeeded, but depression is now when your body has pushed that too far.

Rather than identifying it as a new condition, if it were a runaway result of a natural condition then it allows better treatments.

Technically cancer is the result of a natural process gone wrong.

But aren't some people genetically more prone to conditions then others? Some are naturally fitter/some prone to heart attacks after a cheese burger/some drink to high heaven and live to 100/others get dementia, some get lung cancer after not smoking and breathing in pollution.

Peer pressure is a real thing I agree. And it is hard to feel ostrasised. 1 thing I don't get. Get any random group together and there are a vast array of individuals. So WTF makes the rules? Who decides this is acceptable and this goes against the grain? Who decides this is how things are done and you are a degenerate if you don't fit in? It is all really random. And group think has a mind of its own.

 

[Taylor]

Technically cancer is the result of a natural process gone wrong.

But aren't some people genetically more prone to conditions then others? Some are naturally fitter/some prone to heart attacks after a cheese burger/some drink to high heaven and live to 100/others get dementia, some get lung cancer after not smoking and breathing in pollution.

Peer pressure is a real thing I agree. And it is hard to feel ostrasised. 1 thing I don't get. Get any random group together and there are a vast array of individuals. So WTF makes the rules? Who decides this is acceptable and this goes against the grain? Who decides this is how things are done and you are a degenerate if you don't fit in? It is all really random. And group think has a mind of its own.

I think our species has developed to have leaders and followers, the leaders are the ones who set the trend and the followers copy what they see around them.

You can see an experiment of this by filling a room with actors who are all told to stand up at 10am, the half dozen people in the room who aren't in the know will also stand up.

If human kind is a cacophony of differences then it makes sense that our internal program has a bit of camouflage built in to hide us in the group.

 

[Run n Spread]

I think our species has developed to have leaders and followers, the leaders are the ones who set the trend and the followers copy what they see around them.

You can see an experiment of this by filling a room with actors who are all told to stand up at 10am, the half dozen people in the room who aren't in the know will also stand up.

If human kind is a cacophony of differences then it makes sense that our internal program has a bit of camouflage built in to hide us in the group.

Ha. What about those who aren't either leaders or followers? What do we do? (Yep I included me).

 

[Taylor]

Ha. What about those who aren't either leaders or followers? What do we do? (Yep I included me).

The leaders would say that if you aren't a leader then you are a follower.

 

[Run n Spread]

The leaders would say that if you aren't a leader then you are a follower.

Cool. Ain't following them thou.

 

[BotsMaster]

Depression today is used as an excuse for poor performance and shit behaviour.

 

[John Who]

I think certain people are susceptible to it over others, not a matter of work done because the same "stimulation" doesn't result in the same result.

The diseases you mention are a result of sustained damage, a more fair analogy to compare to what I was suggesting is a natural function that doesn't work correctly in some people such as diabetes (type 1), auto-immune conditions etc.

Essentially showing that your body is supposed to make you feel bad when you don't fit in because those who have fitted in have succeeded, but depression is now when your body has pushed that too far.

Rather than identifying it as a new condition, if it were a runaway result of a natural condition then it allows better treatments.

I think I see where you're going with this line of thought. Though I still disagree

What you're talking about is one form of depression where it's linked with certain personalities, and this leads to a susceptibility in having clinical depression. This most likely is related to your genetic make-up and your physical upbringing by parental figures.

However, you can be an absolutely "normal" sane person, but with X amounts of stress issues, responsibilities, physical illnesses etc, eventually any happy person can turn into a sad one. So in other words, the brain can only carry so many amounts of stress (in anyone). Just some have a higher tolerance to stress than others.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

The problem with prescribing SSRI's as the only treatment for depression is that it doesn't emphasise the importance of the patient doing behavioural activities in their daily lives that assist greatly in supplementing the medication to treat the depressed person. Very often the depressed person has avoided doing everyday things that promote productivity and wellbeing and get caught in the cycle of unhelpful and inflexible beliefs about the events of their lives and about themselves. Therefore, the cycle of depression continues as a result.

Thankfully, most professional clinicians are aware of this and thus also recommend psychological treatments such as CBT alongside an antidepressant.

On the topic of SSRI effectiveness, the book "The emperors new drugs" does a good job of arguing that meta analysis shows that the drugs do little more than placebo in treating depression. However, it has been shown that antidepressants are generally more effective in more severe cases, especially when the depressed person is unable to participate in psychological or behavioural treatments due to the severity.

Cool story bro

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

None. What evolutionary purpose would cancer have?

I eat properly so will be less likely to die to early and more likely to avoid the fraud that is chemo and SSRIs. The longer I live the more I educate others about this

 

[Aeglos]

What evolutionary purpose would depression have?

If you take a slightly macabre Darwinian view it’s entirely possible that the way our society has evolved has enable something like depression to fester whereas in a more “natural” evolutionary setting any genes associated with susceptibility to depression may have been naturally selected out.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

If you take a slightly macabre Darwinian view it’s entirely possible that the way our society has evolved has enable something like depression to fester whereas in a more “natural” evolutionary setting any genes associated with susceptibility to depression may have been naturally selected out.

This takes the wind out of this threads sails. Those sails should of been made by hemp like the first fleet had

ironic that depression never existed amongst the convicts


No money in it

 

[Taylor]

ironic that depression never existed amongst the convicts

Schrodinger's cat? As long as we don't observe it then it doesn't exist? Or might exist but we won't know? So we choose the one we want?

 

[Aeglos]

This takes the wind out of this threads sails. Those sails should of been made by hemp like the first fleet had

ironic that depression never existed amongst the convicts


No money in it
View attachment 450278

Apart from my statement being purely speculative/theoretical you’ve also missed the point entirely.
My suggestion is that depression has always existed within the human race, however our evolution has enabled any (potential) genes that harbour a susceptibility to depression to be passed down the lineage rather than being dwindled in number due to natural selection.
This has nothing to do with money unless you’re claiming people had a way to make money off depression 2000+ years ago as we begun to elevate ourselves above the other animals.

Another alternative, as others have mentioned in this thread, is that depression isn’t actually all that detrimental to our survival as a whole species.

 

[Proud SJW]

Apart from my statement being purely speculative/theoretical you’ve also missed the point entirely.
My suggestion is that depression has always existed within the human race, however our evolution has enabled any (potential) genes that harbour a susceptibility to depression to be passed down the lineage rather than being dwindled in number due to natural selection.
This has nothing to do with money unless you’re claiming people had a way to make money off depression 2000+ years ago as we begun to elevate ourselves above the other animals.

Another alternative, as others have mentioned in this thread, is that depression isn’t actually all that detrimental to our survival as a whole species.

I've actually thought for a long time that our increasing ability to ensure the survival of those who in a "natural" setting normally wouldn't, is combating or softening the evolutionary process. Depression and mental illnesses aren't the only things affected.

The whole thing is coming down to a quality vs quantity argument, but evolutionary theory doesn't give a damn about either one outside of the personal views of an observer.

The metaphysics of quality.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Apart from my
This has nothing to do with money unless you’re claiming people had a way to make money off depression 2000+ years ago as we begun to elevate ourselves above them other animals.

You were making sense and I was sarcastic towards the conservatives in here. But now you've gone and published extremely racist ignorant and offensive white properganda

 

[GreyCrow]

We missed you LG

 

[Proud SJW]

You were making sense and I was sarcastic towards the conservatives in here. But now you've gone and published extremely racist ignorant and offensive white properganda

To equate conservatism with racism is indeed the mental laziness I'd associate with an uptight goose.

 

[Aeglos]

You were making sense and I was sarcastic towards the conservatives in here. But now you've gone and published extremely racist ignorant and offensive white properganda

*propaganda

And I’m not sure how you can claim racism in my post.
Speciesism perhaps if you really want to go down that route.