Did the AFL drop the ball on women's footy?

[GWT6]

There are at least 442 (81.1%) on a current list who played football formally growing up (either in juniors, or as teenagers playing seniors). There are also 33 (6.1%) from Ireland.

545 list spots this season leaves, at most, 70 others (12.8%) who either didn't play it growing up, or I can't verify they did. Happy to just say all 70 didn't, hell of a lot more accurate than "half the league".

You also pushed the 7 million people watched AFLW lie from the AFL, so I don't believe anything you peddle.

 

[Teen Wolf]

You also pushed the 7 million people watched AFLW lie from the AFL, so I don't believe anything you peddle.

Sounds like anything you don't like = lie. Highly rational way of operating.

Fact is a lot of ignorant people like yourself hear "there's a former speed skater playing AFLW" and think "that's the problem with the league, too many athletes from other sports!"

 

[Kings of Lygon]

I think the question really is, what more could they have done? They have PUMPED it with money and push it to the moon every opportunity they get, in one way or another.

The appetite for it just isn't there, that's the reality. It's not that popular and I'm not sure it ever will be. That's why it's not a longer season and doesn't run alongside the AFL season. They would lose a fortune on it over an extended period.

Much of what has been said in this thread is correct too. They expanded wayyyyyy too soon and the skill level of teams and the spectacle of the game has suffered further as a result. Realistically, it should be an 8 team comp, 10 teams at absolute max.

As for the Matildas, that is a once in a 4 year tournament, with countries all around the world playing, where they still had to give away tickets for free in games that didn't include the host nation. Sure, a lot of us got caught up in it and it was great, but I wouldn't be caught dead at a W-League game. Big difference between a World Cup and a domestic league.

People are a bit scared to say it usually, but women's sports in general just isn't that well viewed or liked and I'm not sure it ever will be compared to mens competition of the same sport. A couple of exceptions to this are Tennis and Swimming, but they are the exceptions. The WNBA has NEVER turned a profit and it has been going since 1997. The skill level is still really quite poor, crowds are awful and the viewership is the same. They rely on the mens game to support them, because as a league it simply isn't viable. That's why it's always an uncomfortable conversation (for some) when pay comes up, because if they are paid what they are "worth", they'd be playing for nothing. I see a similar path for AFLW. The AFL will continue to support them and pay overs to give it a chance and be seen to be doing the "right thing", but ultimately it will be a money pit that not all that many people are interested in.

It's absolutely fantastic that young girls can now grow up playing footy and have somewhere to play at the top level as an adult. But I think the long term reality is that it's just never going to be that popular or viable.

 

[GWT6]

Sounds like anything you don't like = lie. Highly rational way of operating.

Fact is a lot of ignorant people like yourself hear "there's a former speed skater playing AFLW" and think "that's the problem with the league, too many athletes from other sports!"

View attachment 1782026

She started skating at 4 years old. She moved to the Netherlands at 16. Looks like she played a season of AFL at 12 years old in primary school, and left the game. Converted to AFL at 24 years old after her speed skating career was over.

So that's the best example you have to disprove that the reason for the different skill levels is a big percentage of the women did not grow up playing football, and only recently converted to the game - it's a girl played as an 12 year old then left the game for 12 years.

I'm a big supporter of women's football and am involved with it at the junior level - but pretending the AFL have handled the last few years of AFLW great is not helping them at all - it's just making people frustrated with the administration and turning people off watching the games.

You have been caught out many times in this thread aggressively pushing misinformation. I'll give you the tip - you think you are the great defender of women's football, but you are really doing them a disservice in this thread by pushing lies and crap.

 

[GWT6]

I think the question really is, what more could they have done? They have PUMPED it with money and push it to the moon every opportunity they get, in one way or another.

The appetite for it just isn't there, that's the reality. It's not that popular and I'm not sure it ever will be. That's why it's not a longer season and doesn't run alongside the AFL season. They would lose a fortune on it over an extended period.

Much of what has been said in this thread is correct too. They expanded wayyyyyy too soon and the skill level of teams and the spectacle of the game has suffered further as a result. Realistically, it should be an 8 team comp, 10 teams at absolute max.

As for the Matildas, that is a once in a 4 year tournament, with countries all around the world playing, where they still had to give away tickets for free in games that didn't include the host nation. Sure, a lot of us got caught up in it and it was great, but I wouldn't be caught dead at a W-League game. Big difference between a World Cup and a domestic league.

People are a bit scared to say it usually, but women's sports in general just isn't that well viewed or liked and I'm not sure it ever will be compared to mens competition of the same sport. A couple of exceptions to this are Tennis and Swimming, but they are the exceptions. The WNBA has NEVER turned a profit and it has been going since 1997. The skill level is still really quite poor, crowds are awful and the viewership is the same. They rely on the mens game to support them, because as a league it simply isn't viable. That's why it's always an uncomfortable conversation (for some) when pay comes up, because if they are paid what they are "worth", they'd be playing for nothing. I see a similar path for AFLW. The AFL will continue to support them and pay overs to give it a chance and be seen to be doing the "right thing", but ultimately it will be a money pit that not all that many people are interested in.

It's absolutely fantastic that young girls can now grow up playing footy and have somewhere to play at the top level as an adult. But I think the long term reality is that it's just never going to be that popular or viable.

Good post.

I don't think AFLW will ever be profitable, but it doesn't need to be. The real value in AFLW is bringing families to the sport. It's not just blokes watching footy now - it's the whole family - and that means increased participation and revenue.

In Southern Queensland and Northern NSW there are a lot of young girls starting to play AFL who are from traditional NRL families. It's the regions fastest growing junior sport.
It's seen as a much better option for parents of the young girls than the perceived danger of rugby league, and doesn't have the egos and politics that go with soccer. The annual costs are also much less than the money hungry soccer clubs that use junior sports to subsidies the seniors.
The girls love the game and their parents are converting to it. They are getting involved with volunteering on game day, watching AFL on TV and attending games - mainly mens AFL, but just knowing the AFLW there is an inspiration to the families.

It's definitely worth using AFLW as a loss leader. The young girls love it when a player comes down to the club and then they see them on TV. But everyone has to be realistic - Money has to come from somewhere. If the woman's league isn't bringing it in it will likely come at the expense of putting money into local football.

The hero in this thread keeps rabbiting on about the hundreds of millions of revenue the women bring in - but there were one off grants given to buy an election that is non recurring. For the competition to be sustainable there needs to be a quality competition with reasonable expenses. Expanding too fast has damaged both of these and jeopardised the ongoing success.

I think what the players earn at the moment is about right. It won't allow them to comfortably be full time professionals, but they can live on it ok, especially as a part time job while studying. The clubs club assists them with work placements through their networks to help set them up for a career post retirement. Pretty much like the men where until the 90's.

That's about as much as can be expected in a competition that is not viable on it's own. They are getting paid to do something they love and assistance in setting them up for life after football - doesn't get much better than that.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Looks like she played a season of AFL at 12 years old in primary school, and left the game.

It "looks like" that to who? To people with nfi (you).

They expanded wayyyyyy too soon

Why did they expand it at the rate they did? The answer to that undermines most of your post.

 

[peetoo]

Good post.

I don't think AFLW will ever be profitable, but it doesn't need to be. The real value in AFLW is bringing families to the sport. It's not just blokes watching footy now - it's the whole family - and that means increased participation and revenue.

In Southern Queensland and Northern NSW there are a lot of young girls starting to play AFL who are from traditional NRL families. It's the regions fastest growing junior sport.
It's seen as a much better option for parents of the young girls than the perceived danger of rugby league, and doesn't have the egos and politics that go with soccer. The annual costs are also much less than the money hungry soccer clubs that use junior sports to subsidies the seniors.
The girls love the game and their parents are converting to it. They are getting involved with volunteering on game day, watching AFL on TV and attending games - mainly mens AFL, but just knowing the AFLW there is an inspiration to the families.

It's definitely worth using AFLW as a loss leader. The young girls love it when a player comes down to the club and then they see them on TV. But everyone has to be realistic - Money has to come from somewhere. If the woman's league isn't bringing it in it will likely come at the expense of putting money into local football.

The hero in this thread keeps rabbiting on about the hundreds of millions of revenue the women bring in - but there were one off grants given to buy an election that is non recurring. For the competition to be sustainable there needs to be a quality competition with reasonable expenses. Expanding too fast has damaged both of these and jeopardised the ongoing success.

I think what the players earn at the moment is about right. It won't allow them to comfortably be full time professionals, but they can live on it ok, especially as a part time job while studying. The clubs club assists them with work placements through their networks to help set them up for a career post retirement. Pretty much like the men where until the 90's.

That's about as much as can be expected in a competition that is not viable on it's own. They are getting paid to do something they love and assistance in setting them up for life after football - doesn't get much better than that.

It’s true and really the best thing under Gillian’s watch. Sometimes I think the aflw gws has more passion than the men’s. It will help enormously in those marketd

 

[GWT6]

It "looks like" that to who? To people with nfi (you).


Why did they expand it at the rate they did? The answer to that undermines most of your post.

Aggressive posting when you have been made to look like a goose for spreading misinformation is all you have.

Maybe time to take a spell.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Aggressive posting when you have been made to look like a goose for spreading misinformation is all you have.

Maybe time to take a spell, you're adding nothing and coming across as a little man with a huge mouth..

Sure, double down on the idea that Brooke Lochland only played one year of junior football. It's consistent with all the other factual errors you've made in this thread.

 

[GWT6]

Sure, double down on the idea that Brooke Lochland only played one year of junior football. It's consistent with all the other factual errors you've made in this thread.

There is actually reasonable discussion going on in this thread that you choose not to be a part of. Instead you want to aggressively peddle misinformation.

To prove that you are a goose one more time -

The woman you mentioned played as a 12 year old and and left the game for 12 yeas, did not play as a teenager and came back in her mid twenties - more than a decade - the decade where most of a players development happens - she was then a late convert after not making it in her chosen sport.
You used her as an example of a player always playing and not being a recent convert. Literally disproved your own point!!!

You've been proven wrong on this and your claim that 7 million people watched AFLW last season - and you are still posting lies.

You are more interested in putting people down and using angry tones than having a reasonable discussion. You should get a ban for this.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Good post.

I don't think AFLW will ever be profitable, but it doesn't need to be. The real value in AFLW is bringing families to the sport. It's not just blokes watching footy now - it's the whole family - and that means increased participation and revenue.

In Southern Queensland and Northern NSW there are a lot of young girls starting to play AFL who are from traditional NRL families. It's the regions fastest growing junior sport.
It's seen as a much better option for parents of the young girls than the perceived danger of rugby league, and doesn't have the egos and politics that go with soccer. The annual costs are also much less than the money hungry soccer clubs that use junior sports to subsidies the seniors.
The girls love the game and their parents are converting to it. They are getting involved with volunteering on game day, watching AFL on TV and attending games - mainly mens AFL, but just knowing the AFLW there is an inspiration to the families.

It's definitely worth using AFLW as a loss leader. The young girls love it when a player comes down to the club and then they see them on TV. But everyone has to be realistic - Money has to come from somewhere. If the woman's league isn't bringing it in it will likely come at the expense of putting money into local football.

The hero in this thread keeps rabbiting on about the hundreds of millions of revenue the women bring in - but there were one off grants given to buy an election that is non recurring. For the competition to be sustainable there needs to be a quality competition with reasonable expenses. Expanding too fast has damaged both of these and jeopardised the ongoing success.

I think what the players earn at the moment is about right. It won't allow them to comfortably be full time professionals, but they can live on it ok, especially as a part time job while studying. The clubs club assists them with work placements through their networks to help set them up for a career post retirement. Pretty much like the men where until the 90's.

That's about as much as can be expected in a competition that is not viable on it's own. They are getting paid to do something they love and assistance in setting them up for life after football - doesn't get much better than that.

Yeah, I think the tangible benefits that you've highlighted are great and I agree with you. I totally understand some of the decisions they've made and the investment around probable loss and the like, but I question the expansion, I question the amount of money thrown at it when there are areas areas of the game struggling and a couple of other things too!

I got involved in some ruck coaching and occassionally being the runner in my neices team; it's bloody terrific to see the passion the girls have and the benefits EVERYONE can get from footy clubs. Girls have mostly been locked out of this traditionally and I'm here for it that it's changing. But am I watching a women's footy game that doesn't involve someone I know or am related to? No. I find it an inferior sport to watch and I'm really not interested, not to mention the player movement in AFLW and the mickey mouse 10 round season. I hope it grows and people support it, but it will never reach the heights to be anywhere near equal to AFL IMO... I think that's ok, but it's time people stopped pretending otherwise. The same goes for comparing it to the World Cup...

I just think more people need to be realistic about the competition and probably female sport in general. The cheerleaders on here and in the media trying to spruik equal pay or even close need their head read, they are doing everyone involved a disservice, especially the athletes. Trying to claim it's widely popular/viewed and fudging numbers/making s**t up isn't fooling nobody either. I know why they do it, but it needs to be called out more and a more realistic approach needs to be taken by all.

 

[Teen Wolf]

To prove that you are a goose one more time -

The woman you mentioned played as a 12 year old and and left the game for 12 yeas, did not play as a teenager

Very easy to disprove. Turned 13 on 3 May 2004, a year she was playing yet another (by no means her second, nor last) season of pre-AFLW football.

Spoiler: YJFL 2004 Best & Fairest Votes: Under 13 Gold

Yarra Junior Football League​

Best and Fairest Votes, Season 2004​

YJFL UNDER 13 GOLD FINAL VOTE SUMMARY​

Hannebery​	Daniel​	Kew Rovers​	27​
Snell​	Thomas​	St Mary's​	26​
Purcell​	Josh​	Kew Rovers​	23​
Hoegel​	Jayden​	Beverley Hills​	18​
Demelis​	Nick​	Fitzroy​	14​
Sharp​	Stuart​	Surrey Park​	14​
Le​	David​	Preston​	13​
Borthwick​	Lochie​	Glen Iris​	12​
Freeman​	Brent​	St Mary's​	11​
Tsindos​	Alex​	Glen Iris​	10​
Cohen​	Toby​	Glen Iris​	9​
Fent​	Damon​	Beverley Hills​	9​
Follacchio​	Robert​	Beverley Hills​	9​
Ratcliffe​	Troy​	Beverley Hills​	9​
Roos​	Joel​	Beverley Hills​	8​
McNiece​	Ben​	Preston​	7​
Thornton​	Callan​	Beverley Hills​	7​
Allen​	Jake​	Hawthorn Cits​	5​
Bacskos​	Michael​	St Mary's​	5​
Bordonaro​	Anthony​	Hawthorn Cits​	5​
Bordonaro​	Sam​	Hawthorn Cits​	5​
Sinclair​	Ben​	Kew Rovers​	5​
Stobart​	Ted​	Glen Iris​	5​
Balassone​	Daniel​	Beverley Hills​	4​
Hodgkinson​	Lessey​	Fitzroy​	4​
Le Fevre​	Shane​	St Mary's​	4​
Pietrzak​	Marek​	Kew Rovers​	4​
Poole​	Seb​	Hawthorn Cits​	4​
Barratt​	Brett​	Beverley Hills​	3​
Bell​	Chris​	Surrey Park​	3​
Biscaro​	Tom​	Fitzroy​	3​
Blandthorn​	Edward​	Kew Rovers​	3​
Bulmer​	Rustin​	Fitzroy​	3​
Cato​	Chris​	Glen Iris​	3​
Daddo​	Sam​	Glen Iris​	3​
Darrer​	Julian​	Glen Iris​	3​
Domini​	Christiaan​	Beverley Hills​	3​
Donnellon​	Tomas​	Kew Rovers​	3​
Galvin​	Luke​	Preston​	3​
Hunt​	Jack​	Fitzroy​	3​
Hunt​	Ned​	Fitzroy​	3​
Kenworthy​	James​	Surrey Park​	3​
Miles​	Chris​	Kew Rovers​	3​
Nagorcka​	Felix​	Fitzroy​	3​
Pughlies​	Zane​	Surrey Park​	3​
Veal​	Daniel​	St Mary's​	3​
Baines​	Jack​	St Mary's​	2​
Barnes​	Elias​	Fitzroy​	2​
Bate​	Matt​	Glen Iris​	2​
Burgess​	Nick​	Glen Iris​	2​
Free​	Harry​	Fitzroy​	2​
Henman​	Kayne​	Surrey Park​	2​
Hogan​	Daniel​	Beverley Hills​	2​
Hore-Lacy​	Tom​	Kew Rovers​	2​
Lambert​	Kane​	Preston​	2​
Landgren​	Sam​	Hawthorn Cits​	2​
Lochland​	Brooke​	St Mary's​	2​

I could post more records from other years. Not sure I really need to bother though, given you've already said you refuse to believe anything I post.

There is actually reasonable discussion going on in this thread that you choose not to be a part of. Instead you want to aggressively peddle misinformation.

Remember the part of the thread when you said Docklands Stadium was built by taxpayer money?

 

[GWT6]

Very easy to disprove. Turned 13 on 3 May 2004, a year she was playing yet another (by no means her second, nor last) season of pre-AFLW football.

Spoiler: YJFL 2004 Best & Fairest Votes: Under 13 Gold

Yarra Junior Football League​

Best and Fairest Votes, Season 2004​

YJFL UNDER 13 GOLD FINAL VOTE SUMMARY​

Hannebery​	Daniel​	Kew Rovers​	27​
Snell​	Thomas​	St Mary's​	26​
Purcell​	Josh​	Kew Rovers​	23​
Hoegel​	Jayden​	Beverley Hills​	18​
Demelis​	Nick​	Fitzroy​	14​
Sharp​	Stuart​	Surrey Park​	14​
Le​	David​	Preston​	13​
Borthwick​	Lochie​	Glen Iris​	12​
Freeman​	Brent​	St Mary's​	11​
Tsindos​	Alex​	Glen Iris​	10​
Cohen​	Toby​	Glen Iris​	9​
Fent​	Damon​	Beverley Hills​	9​
Follacchio​	Robert​	Beverley Hills​	9​
Ratcliffe​	Troy​	Beverley Hills​	9​
Roos​	Joel​	Beverley Hills​	8​
McNiece​	Ben​	Preston​	7​
Thornton​	Callan​	Beverley Hills​	7​
Allen​	Jake​	Hawthorn Cits​	5​
Bacskos​	Michael​	St Mary's​	5​
Bordonaro​	Anthony​	Hawthorn Cits​	5​
Bordonaro​	Sam​	Hawthorn Cits​	5​
Sinclair​	Ben​	Kew Rovers​	5​
Stobart​	Ted​	Glen Iris​	5​
Balassone​	Daniel​	Beverley Hills​	4​
Hodgkinson​	Lessey​	Fitzroy​	4​
Le Fevre​	Shane​	St Mary's​	4​
Pietrzak​	Marek​	Kew Rovers​	4​
Poole​	Seb​	Hawthorn Cits​	4​
Barratt​	Brett​	Beverley Hills​	3​
Bell​	Chris​	Surrey Park​	3​
Biscaro​	Tom​	Fitzroy​	3​
Blandthorn​	Edward​	Kew Rovers​	3​
Bulmer​	Rustin​	Fitzroy​	3​
Cato​	Chris​	Glen Iris​	3​
Daddo​	Sam​	Glen Iris​	3​
Darrer​	Julian​	Glen Iris​	3​
Domini​	Christiaan​	Beverley Hills​	3​
Donnellon​	Tomas​	Kew Rovers​	3​
Galvin​	Luke​	Preston​	3​
Hunt​	Jack​	Fitzroy​	3​
Hunt​	Ned​	Fitzroy​	3​
Kenworthy​	James​	Surrey Park​	3​
Miles​	Chris​	Kew Rovers​	3​
Nagorcka​	Felix​	Fitzroy​	3​
Pughlies​	Zane​	Surrey Park​	3​
Veal​	Daniel​	St Mary's​	3​
Baines​	Jack​	St Mary's​	2​
Barnes​	Elias​	Fitzroy​	2​
Bate​	Matt​	Glen Iris​	2​
Burgess​	Nick​	Glen Iris​	2​
Free​	Harry​	Fitzroy​	2​
Henman​	Kayne​	Surrey Park​	2​
Hogan​	Daniel​	Beverley Hills​	2​
Hore-Lacy​	Tom​	Kew Rovers​	2​
Lambert​	Kane​	Preston​	2​
Landgren​	Sam​	Hawthorn Cits​	2​
Lochland​	Brooke​	St Mary's​	2​

I could post more records from other years. Not sure I really need to bother though, given you've already said you refuse to believe anything I post.


Remember the part of the thread when you said Docklands Stadium was built by taxpayer money?

Played a few seasons as a kid - she was living overseas by 16. You've been proven wrong, not sure why you are still pushing this.

When you were talking about the hundreds of millions of dollars that the AFLW is contributing to the AFL revenue - you got caught out when you had to admit it was taxpayer money, I pointed out that its vote buying by governments happens every year, and if it wasn't the women it would have been something else. I then gave about ten examples, one of which was Docklands.
Without taxpayer money the building of Docklands stadium would not have happened - who funded all the infostructure like footbridges that made it possible? The land was given to the AFL by the Government at under market value. And Taxpayers are paying another $225m for the development - and AFLW don't play there.

You just keep racking up the loses without contributing anything worthwhile to this thread. What a sad angry little man you are.

 

[Teen Wolf]

she played a season of AFL at 12 years old in primary school, and left the game

Played a few seasons as a kid

How many seasons did she play, exactly? You don't know, so perhaps stop trying to pretend.

When you were talking about the hundreds of millions of dollars that the AFLW is contributing to the AFL

Yes, AFLW has brought in hundreds of millions of dollars to the AFL and its clubs. This includes, but not limited to, government funding for facilities (which are used more by the men than the women) which wouldn't have happened without AFLW.

We know this because of the spectacular backflip on AFLW performed by Jeff Kennett, when his sans-AFLW club missed out on much-needed funding back in 2018. I have always been glad to highlight this, here's an example from a month before this thread was started:

It's the view of anybody who has a vague idea of the money that has flowed into the 18 AFL clubs because of AFLW.

Hence in February 2018, Jeff Kennett says this: "I am quite happy that [Hawthorn] don’t, right now, have a team."

Then a month-and-a-half later: "At the moment we are being staged in... That is, with due respect, discriminatory and inappropriate."

On 13 Feb 2018, Kennett says he's "happy" Hawthorn don't have an AFLW team.

On 24 March 2018, at a pre-match MCG dinner (R1 Saturday night between Hawthorn and Collingwood), he's suddenly cracking the shits (knowing Richard Goyder is in the room) about not having an AFLW team.

What changed his mind? Well, he read the paper on Friday and Saturday morning.

 

[GWT6]

How many seasons did she play, exactly? You don't know, so perhaps stop trying to pretend.


Yes, AFLW has brought in hundreds of millions of dollars to the AFL and its clubs. This includes, but not limited to, government funding for facilities (which are used more by the men than the women) which wouldn't have happened without AFLW.

We know this because of the spectacular backflip on AFLW performed by Jeff Kennett, when his sans-AFLW club missed out on much-needed funding back in 2018. I have always been glad to highlight this, here's an example from a month before this thread was started:

I've exposed your lies and misinformation enough for this thread. Keep repeating them all you want - but you're cooked.

Now back to sensible discussion with people that don't have an issue with their height.

 

[Kwality]

It's definitely worth using AFLW as a loss leader.

The problem is the AFLW conflate that strategy with equality & I cant see that changing any time soon.

 

[GWT6]

Yeah, spot on.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Video released today. Enjoy it, Boydogs. The house Ellie Blackburn built!

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