Doig Medal

[dominguez]

You can't or won't see the big picture. You cannot do anything when you are $7Mil in the red , you have lost draft picks and have to perform with a short list becuase of previous incompetence, and the coaching group are trying to do 2 or 3 jobs at once.

Your recruiting network is by neccesity hamstrung because of lack of funds

CC may not have won us a flag but He has had a big part in putting us in a position both on & off field to achieve one.

The fact that there has been minimal list changes to date says to me that the match committee think that we do have a list that can achieve that.

IIRC CC considered Con a mentor and certainly spoke of him as a great Fremantle person.

Even with all those problems we won 9 games in that first year with a bunch of 21-22 year olds. Then after the golden boy did all these great things to improve the club we won 10 games with a group of 26 year olds?

All the crap that he talked didn't get people to go to the games, winning, or atleast the prospect of winning did that. And he was able to take over a great young list without having to do anything. The best 22 that he took over had much more upside than the one he has left. The club had just traded for the hottest young KPP in the competition when Connolly was appointed, then 12 months later traded for the hottest young midfielder in the competition. If Carlton add Judd to their young list this year, then Buddy next year, then win one final in 5 years will Ratten still be their coach?

After winning 9 games in his first year Connolly could have sat back without making wholesale changes because 90% of the list had their best footy infront of them. If Harvey wins 9 games in his first year it will be time to have a massive clean out and rebuild.

 

[dominguez]

Connolly took over a list "Laden with young talent"? That comment won't fool anyone but the most grizzled wehavethepoisonite.

If we are looking at Carlton, it was PAGAN who took over a list most compatible with the position we were in 2002! He inherited a wooden spoon list and they stayed there for years.

If Carlton shows us anything it's that a wooden doesn't automatically indicate a springboard back to the top of the ladder.

So Pavlich, Hasleby, Longmuir, Brown, McPhee, Croad, Simmonds, McPharlin, Polak and Farmer weren't conisdered exciting young talent? Farmer was the oldest of that bunch at just 24, Simmonds 23 and the rest 22 or younger.

It's not about taking over a club that's won a spoon, it's about inheriting a list full of early draft picks. Carlton lost their picks so there's a huge difference. Drum and Pagan are a good comparison because they both took over at clubs down the bottom with terrible playing lists.

Walker, Gibbs, Murphy and Kennedy are at the same stage today as Pavlich, Longmuir, Brown and Hasleby were at the end of 2001. Top 5 picks with very few games under their belt.

 

[Ripper]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350498

You should read this. It takes a long time to build a premiership side.

 

[Roundhouse]

If Harvey wins 9 games in his first year it will be time to have a massive clean out and rebuild.

If Harvey wins 9 games next year, and you don't call for his sacking you will lose all credibility.

After the countless times you and your wehavethepoison cronies have rabitted on about us having a "superb" list but Connolly not being able to get the most out of them, turning around and then blaming the list would be grossly hypocritical.

You can't go around using meaningless dumbisms like accusing the teams supporters for "accepting mediocrity" and then be seen to do the same.

Actually you probably could. I'm forgetting that constantly contradicting yourself has become the norm in your white-anting routine. Well, at least you'll have your mob of disgruntled cronies to cheer on your whinging about the coach/list dependent on who better suits the agenda.

 

[dominguez]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350498

You should read this. It takes a long time to build a premiership side.

How much longer? I'd say our best 22 at the start of 2007 would have had more games experience than Geelongs.

 

[Ripper]

So Pavlich, Hasleby, Longmuir, Brown, McPhee, Croad, Simmonds, McPharlin, Polak and Farmer weren't conisdered exciting young talent? Farmer was the oldest of that bunch at just 24, Simmonds 23 and the rest 22 or younger.

It's not about taking over a club that's won a spoon, it's about inheriting a list full of early draft picks. Carlton lost their picks so there's a huge difference. Drum and Pagan are a good comparison because they both took over at clubs down the bottom with terrible playing lists.

Walker, Gibbs, Murphy and Kennedy are at the same stage today as Pavlich, Longmuir, Brown and Hasleby were at the end of 2001. Top 5 picks with very few games under their belt.

Brown - CC was right

Mcphee

Justin took seven seasons to come good and then promptly broke down.

It take more than five players to make a team , you need 30 at least, 2003 we played with a senior list of 35 and only used 32.

 

[dominguez]

If Harvey wins 9 games next year, and you don't call for his sacking you will lose all credibility.

I'm forgetting that constantly contradicting yourself has become the norm in your white-anting routine. Well, at least you'll have your mob of disgruntled cronies to cheer on your whinging about the coach/list dependent on who better suits the agenda.

I don't understand your hostility and constant references to wehavethepassion. If I wanted to post on wehavethepassion I would, but I like the debate offered on bigfooty. You get your knickers in a twist when someones opinion contradicts your own, so whats the point of reading this board and posting if you display such hostility when anyone disagrees with you?

Surely there would be little point in having internet forums if everyone agreed, but if constant backslapping is your thing then surely dockerland would be more up your alley?

 

[Ripper]

How much longer? I'd say our best 22 at the start of 2007 would have had more games experience than Geelongs.

The same list that was in contention in 2006.
.
Remarkable effort to do that from 2001.

2007 was an anus horribulus like Geelong 2006.

Games experience is a bit of a dud stat IMO , a lot of those blokes (E.G. Macca , Walker ) have those games because of a lack of depth that comes from not having 3 players on the list in 2003 to do the preseasons and get the time in the system.

 

[dominguez]

Brown - CC was right

Mcphee

Justin took seven seasons to come good and then promptly broke down.

It take more than five players to make a team , you need 30 at least, 2003 we played with a senior list of 35 and only used 32.

I never wrote that Brown and McPhee were stars, but in 2002 they were exciting young players who looked to have a big future. Under Connolly we got some trades right and some trades wrong. There was too much trading of early draft picks, but that is another debate.

We're not going back to the overachieved in 2003 and 2006 debate again are we?

 

[dominguez]

The same list that was in contention in 2006.
.
Remarkable effort to do that from 2001.

Almost all teams win a final within 5 years of a spoon though.
Melbourne - wooden spoon 97, grand finalists 2000.
Brisbane - wooden spoon 98, premiers 01-03.
Collingwood - wooden spoon 99, grand finalists 2002.
St Kilda - wooden spoon 2000, prelim in 2004.
Fremantle - wooden spoon 2001, prelim in 2006.
Carlton - wooden spoon 2002, still crap.
Bulldogs - wooden spoon 2003, won an elimination final in 2006.

 

[Ripper]

I never wrote that Brown and McPhee were stars, but in 2002 they were exciting young players who looked to have a big future. Under Connolly we got some trades right and some trades wrong. There was too much trading of early draft picks, but that is another debate.

We're not going back to the overachieved in 2003 and 2006 debate again are we?

Nup , 2003 we had a dream run, used only 32 players and could easily have been 11-11.

2006 we were about right I thought, could have actually won the flag if WC had of beaten Sydney in the QF, so we weren't far off.

2007 facts are we were without a fit experienced ruckman from round 3 or 4 lost our two most pacy and nimble midfielders for most of the season each and even Pav picked in opportune moments to get the yips.

Just about anything that could go wrong went wron and we were still a (remote) chance to make the eight up until Friday night round 22.

In fact We have stiil been in the finals hunt in round 22 in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 , 2007.

Big difference to looking to win the 2nd game for the year in round 22.

Con Reagan Medal - well deserved IMO.


Should be right up there next year.

 

[Lach72]

In fact We have stiil been in the finals hunt in round 22 in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 , 2007.

Well that's a relief...
Finals contention...ace.

 

[Ripper]

Almost all teams win a final within 5 years of a spoon though.
Melbourne - wooden spoon 97, grand finalists 2000.
Brisbane - wooden spoon 98, premiers 01-03.
Collingwood - wooden spoon 99, grand finalists 2002.
St Kilda - wooden spoon 2000, prelim in 2004.
Fremantle - wooden spoon 2001, prelim in 2006.
Carlton - wooden spoon 2002, still crap.
Bulldogs - wooden spoon 2003, won an elimination final in 2006.

Go back a couple of years befor their repective spoons and you will see they mostly had some success and player currency to trade.

E.G The Saints lost the GF in 1997 and got some early draft picks by trading of the Wakelins , Everitt , Halls etc.

Brisbane was an abberation , 2nd year of the merged team and made the finals in 1995 & 1996 and made a PF in 1999.
They still got the eight best Fitzroy players to use / trade for early picks.

The pies picked up Clement and Holland from us by trading Willians and Shauble to Sydney.

The point i am trying to make is that all those sides bar Carlton had at least some player currency to trade off.

Something We have never had - ever.

BTW , Geelong this year is the final team to win a flag that got a Compensation pick free kick from the Freo startup.

 

[Lach72]

Go back a couple of years befor their repective spoons and you will see they mostly had some success and player currency to trade.

E.G The Saints lost the GF in 1997 and got some early draft picks by trading of the Wakelins , Everitt , Halls etc.

Brisbane was an abberation , 2nd year of the merged team and made the finals in 1995 & 1996 and made a PF in 1999.
They still got the eight best Fitzroy players to use / trade for early picks.

The pies picked up Clement and Holland from us by trading Willians and Shauble to Sydney.

The point i am trying to make is that all those sides bar Carlton had at least some player currency to trade off.

Something We have never had - ever.

BTW , Geelong this year is the final team to win a flag that got a Compensation pick free kick from the Freo startup.

Sinclair and McPhee.

Handy players...
Don't forget Daniell Schell, too...

 

[Kram]

Well that's a relief...
Finals contention...ace.

ROTFL

 

[Docker_Brat]

Obviously the match committee were not trying to encourage mediocrity.

That was one of the things Harvey said when he got up to speak. One of the major goals next year is the building of a club that refuses to accept mediocrity. Schwab was pretty tanked by the time I got a chance to speak to him personally and I gave him my opinion of the difference between Connolly and Harvey, I felt Harvey isn't as articulate as Connolly but Harvey has that aura about him and combined with his background of success, he's the type of bloke that players want to put in for.

Schwab said that Harvey "has this look in his eyes that says you just wouldn't want to **** with him". Succinctly put.

 

[Docker_Brat]

Anyone who thinks CC doesn't deserve the honour bestowed on him can sod off. Despite his shortcomings in getting the message across and the best out of the players. He was a superb spokesman for the club and did a great job in building the brand.

We had stuff all members when CC arrives and over 40000 as he leaves. The club knew the role he had in that and honoured him accordingly.

 

[Ripper]

Full list of votes. Good to see Brock get one.


Pavlich, M. 29
Grover, A. 24
McPharlin, L. 22
Bell, P. 21
Carr, J. 21
Solomon, D. 21
Hayden, R. 21
Headland, D. 19
Black, H. 17
Johnson, M. 17
Hasleby, P. 16
Dodd, S. 15
Tarrant, C. 15
McManus, S. 14
Gilmore, D. 12
Sandilands, A. 12
Mundy, D. 11
Carr, M. 8
Farmer, J. 8
Crowley, R. 7
Thornton, S. 6
Warnock, R. 5
Cook, T. 4
Webster, L. 4
Walker, J. 3
Duffield, P. 3
Drum, M. 2
Peake, B. 2
Foster, A 2
Campbell, A. 2
Schammer, B. 2
Parker, S. 2
O'Brien, B 1
Haddrill, R. 1
Dunn, R. 0
Longmuir, J. 0
Collard, C 0
Murphy, R. 0
Ibbotson, G. 0
Browne, A. 0

 

[dominguez]

Full list of votes. Good to see Brock get one.

Haddrill also got one vote in his only game, maybe they think he's worth persevering with?

 

[Ripper]

Haddrill also got one vote in his only game, maybe they think he's worth persevering with?

Thought the same thing.

When I get a chance I will check out who polled in the most games / gamed played to see who was consistant.

 

[Ripper]

Most Consistant

Game poled votes / games played

O'Brien, B 1/1 100%
Haddrill, R. 1/1 100%
Black, H. 13/17 76.47%
Carr, J. 15/20 75%
Solomon, D. 15/20 75%
McPharlin, L. 15/21 71.43%
Grover, A. 15/21 71.43%
Headland, D. 12/17 70.59%
Dodd, S. 11/16 68.75%
Foster, A 2/3 66.67%
Pavlich, M. 14/22 63.64%
Hayden, R. 14/22 63.64%
Farmer, J. 5/8 62.5%
Sandilands, A. 9/15 60%
Bell, P. 13/22 59.1%
Johnson, M. 10/18 55.56%
Gilmore, D. 7/14 50%
Duffield, P. 3/6 50%
Hasleby, P. 10/20 50%
Tarrant, C. 10/21 47.6%
Carr, M. 8/17 47.06%
McManus, S. 10/22 45.45%
Mundy, D. 8/22 36.36%
Drum, M. 1/3 33.33%
Warnock, R. 4/12 33.33%
Cook, T. 3/9 33.33%
Thornton, S. 4/14 28.57%
Schammer, B. 2/7 28.57%
Webster, L. 2/7 28.5%
Parker, S. 2/7 28.57%
Crowley, R. 5/19 26.32%
Campbell, A. 1/4 25%
Walker, J. 2/10 20%
Peake, B. 2/10 20%
Collard, C 0/1
Dunn, R. 0/1
Ibbotson, G. 0/1
Longmuir, J. 0/3
Browne, A. 0/4
Murphy, R. 0/7

 

[dominguez]

Surprised that McPharlin and Black had a better strike rate than Pav. My recollection is that they both took a few games to get going at the start of the year. I just noticed that Luke got 2 votes in the first derby, I remember at the time being very disappointed with his effort chasing those two poor kicks from Dodd that went out of bounds.

 

[FD369]

Most Consistant

Game poled votes / games played

O'Brien, B 1/1 100%
Haddrill, R. 1/1 100%
Black, H. 13/17 76.47%
Carr, J. 15/20 75%
Solomon, D. 15/20 75%
McPharlin, L. 15/21 71.43%
Grover, A. 15/21 71.43%
Headland, D. 12/17 70.59%
.......

There are two things that standout like dogs nuts from that list:

i) Headlands average of 70+% will still not get his detractors of his back.

ii) Ripper has way too much time on his hands.

 

[Ripper]

There are two things that standout like dogs nuts from that list:

i) Headlands average of 70+% will still not get his detractors of his back.

And rightly so , disappointing that He got shown up by Brock O'brien.

ii) Ripper has way too much time on his hands.

Ripper wastes too much time here.