List Mgmt. Draft Discussion 2016

[SaintsSeptember]

Having watched him a few times, I think it may be a case off him bursting too quickly and his composure may be off timing wise. Jack Steven used to have this problem. Good chance that once he gets up to speed with tempo , this can be ironed out. His kicking technique doesn't look anywhere near as flawed as Wright.

I'm sure people were saying the same thing about Wright though, "too rushed".

 

[Barrels]

I'm not against a flyer on Cedric Cox at pick 23.



181cm 78kg midfielder from Hall's Creek via Camperdown. Excellent off both feet and quick. Overager.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Having watched him a few times, I think it may be a case off him bursting too quickly and his composure may be off timing wise. Jack Steven used to have this problem. Good chance that once he gets up to speed with tempo , this can be ironed out. His kicking technique doesn't look anywhere near as flawed as Wright.

Have a listen to the interview with Darragh Joyce especially when he talks about kicking. Not having ingrained bad habits makes it easier for the Irish recruits to become proficient kicks than it is for aussie kids to get rid of bad habits that have been established over 10 year+ .

You can fix up some set shot deficiencies but improving field kicking is a completely different beast. Best outcomes are usually to restrict the kicker to only those kicks they can execute (ie short kicks to players that are very clear and standing still or down the line long kicks to contests)

The amount of time Reiwoldt (and now Bruce and McCartin) have been missed in lead up passes over the past few years a problem we have to to eliminate or we will keep treading water.

My one rule of drafting - If they can't get it and they can't get rid of it - don't pick them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Have a listen to the interview with Darragh Joyce especially when he talks about kicking. Not having ingrained bad habits makes it easier for the Irish recruits to become proficient kicks than it is for aussie kids to get rid of bad habits that have been established over 10 year+ .

You can fix up some set shot deficiencies but improving field kicking is a completely different beast. Best outcomes are usually to restrict the kicker to only those kicks they can execute (ie short kicks to players that are very clear and standing still or down the line long kicks to contests)

The amount of time Reiwoldt (and now Bruce and McCartin) have been missed in lead up passes over the past few years a problem we have to to eliminate or we will keep treading water.

My one rule of drafting - If they can't get it and they can't get rid of it - don't pick them.

I used to think that Riewoldt actually benefited from it. He was more likely to beat his opponent to it if it was impossible to reach.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I'm not against a flyer on Cedric Cox at pick 23.

View attachment 306830

181cm 78kg midfielder from Hall's Creek via Camperdown. Excellent off both feet and quick. Overager.

I'm pretty keen on SPP, if the likes of Venebles, Florent, Logue, Simpkin, Bolton, Berry and so-on are all gone- the idea of him just gets me a lot more excited than the idea of a Rotham, Gallucci, Scharenberg, Witherden does (even though I won't be disappointed if we get any of them), in particular as he is as they say a real "difference maker", but the one who I might want the most if the first group are all gone at 23 is Cox.

We have so many "flankers" and plenty now who will be able to go through the guts, but if Cox is the type who could play wing and just run up and down the ground all day, run and carry when he gets it and use it well on both feet, then he could be what we need more than anyone.

Was happy to see he's weighed in at 78kg, too, which suggests he's not super-skinny, which is another plus.

 

[Mighty_sainter]

Brett Anderson says there is absolutely 'no chance' Simpkin makes it past pick 19 let alone 23. Scratch that one off the list

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm not against a flyer on Cedric Cox at pick 23.

View attachment 306830

181cm 78kg midfielder from Hall's Creek via Camperdown. Excellent off both feet and quick. Overager.

Do you know much about him? I've also seen him described as a half-back flanker who "may" be able to play midfield. ( yeah yeah, like they all may ).

It all gets a bit speculative at times. We have Simpkin who will probably go first round , despite not playing this year, and then Cox who we are suggesting could go early second, despite not being good enough to earn a Rookie spot a year ago.

Players who are on the radar due to X-Factor ring alarm bells for me. Spencer White or Jack Newnes ? Its exciting to see someone pop up and do something impossible at a crucial part of the game, but do they do enough 95% of the time?

I'd love Rotham to slide ( still a back flanker, but height is a point of difference , a bit more versatile ), but I'd be quite happy if we ended up with someone "boring" like Clarke, or Scharenberg. ( I think we should bid on Mutch if available too ).

I really don't see the outside mid we need in this draft and I'd rather go best available.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I see a bit of dangerfeild in his kicking, burst open a pack and kick long. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, obviously his kicking for goal isn't a issue.

Yep, and with Paddy and Bruce hopefully playing deep for us for years to come, the long, high and penetrating kick won't necessarily be the worst option in the world. He can leave the precision passing to the likes of Billings, Newnes, Savage, Gresh, Ross, Webster, White, Lonie, Sinclair, Roberton, Hopper, Mav and so-on, if he doesn't improve it.

In fact, when you look at that list, we're looking like having a good kicking team going forward, with very few if any "ball-butchers", so I'm sure we could get away with one or two if they do enough good things the rest of the time.

Think of it like this. It's not as though he's going to be butchering every kick he does. He's not Jason Daniels. He could be like Sam Gilbert circa-2009/2010, where he would butcher a kick or three per game, but the rest of the time he was breaking lines, moving the ball quickly, dodging around those who tried to tackle him, making a difference and coming 3rd in the B&F of a grand final team.

In particular, I can see him making a difference in finals, where it's all about contested ball and getting it forward, generally long to the tall targets (at least traditionally). Having someone big, strong and aggressive like him busting through packs/congestion and then breaking a line or two with his run and then kicking it long and high to a Paddy/Bruce could be far from the worst thing a team could have going for them.

Another plus for us is that he could come on pretty quickly, given that he's already played senior footy, has a big body and really good endurance. If he can come in and start making some sort of positive difference by say the end of 2018 then that could be really good for us, especially if Roo and Joey are still going and we're up to our eyeballs in the premiership race.

 

[Mighty_sainter]

Do you know much about him? I've also seen him described as a half-back flanker who "may" be able to play midfield. ( yeah yeah, like they all may ).

It all gets a bit speculative at times. We have Simpkin who will probably go first round , despite not playing this year, and then Cox who we are suggesting could go early second, despite not being good enough to earn a Rookie spot a year ago.

Players who are on the radar due to X-Factor ring alarm bells for me. Spencer White or Jack Newnes ? Its exciting to see someone pop up and do something impossible at a crucial part of the game, but do they do enough 95% of the time?

I'd love Rotham to slide ( still a back flanker, but height is a point of difference , a bit more versatile ), but I'd be quite happy if we ended up with someone "boring" like Clarke, or Scharenberg. ( I think we should bid on Mutch if available too ).

I really don't see the outside mid we need in this draft and I'd rather go best available.

I think we are gonna have to try hidden gems. We are too far in our rebuild to get genuine quality because we probably won't be down that part of the ladder, taking an educated punt would be the best option. Clarke and scharenberg with our first pick would be a horrible choice we have how many inside midfielders? Outside speed such as someone who plays like Brad hill is a must

 

[aussierulesrules]

Do you know much about him? I've also seen him described as a half-back flanker who "may" be able to play midfield. ( yeah yeah, like they all may ).

It all gets a bit speculative at times. We have Simpkin who will probably go first round , despite not playing this year, and then Cox who we are suggesting could go early second, despite not being good enough to earn a Rookie spot a year ago.

He's not your average case though is he?

He comes from a remote little town thousands of kilometres inland from Broome and has only just moved down to Vic this year, so he might not have even been in the "system" until this year.

Jack Steele wasn't good enough to get a rookie spot when he was first eligible, either, yet a year later he was bid on with pick 15 in a strong top 20.

I'd be quite happy if we ended up with someone "boring" like Clarke, or Scharenberg. ( I think we should bid on Mutch if available too ).

I really don't see the outside mid we need in this draft and I'd rather go best available.

We could definitely do a lot worse than to get any of those 3 (and I've also been thinking that maybe we'll bid on Mutch, if it's true that GWS may not match the bid), but given that we already have a number of similar "mostly inside boring/not quick types", like Armo, Ross, Dunstan, Steele and Stevens, I'm just not sure we really need to use our only top 30 pick this year on another one.

I reckon we have enough of that type and now need to start looking for those with real speed in particular, to compliment them and there seem to be a good number in this part of the draft who could be very worth taking a punt on, such as Bolton, Cox, SPP, Gallucci and Rotham.

If we want another mostly inside type (which I doubt we particularly do, after just grabbing Steele and Stevens) I'd much rather throw the kitchen sink next year at one who will really be more likely to make a difference to our team going forward (eg. a Fyfe/Martin/Shiel/Hopper/Heeney) then spend our first pick this year on one who will probably struggle to get a game for years, because he has all those I mentioned above ahead of them in the pecking order (along with others like Steven, Acres and Gresham).

 

[Barrels]

Do you know much about him? I've also seen him described as a half-back flanker who "may" be able to play midfield. ( yeah yeah, like they all may ).

It all gets a bit speculative at times. We have Simpkin who will probably go first round , despite not playing this year, and then Cox who we are suggesting could go early second, despite not being good enough to earn a Rookie spot a year ago.

Players who are on the radar due to X-Factor ring alarm bells for me. Spencer White or Jack Newnes ? Its exciting to see someone pop up and do something impossible at a crucial part of the game, but do they do enough 95% of the time?

I'd love Rotham to slide ( still a back flanker, but height is a point of difference , a bit more versatile ), but I'd be quite happy if we ended up with someone "boring" like Clarke, or Scharenberg. ( I think we should bid on Mutch if available too ).

I really don't see the outside mid we need in this draft and I'd rather go best available.

He's not on the radar due to X-factor, he's on it due to class.

The reason he's 'come from nowhere' is as attributable to his move from the Halls Creek in the Kimberley to Camperdown in the Corangamite Shire - that's 4,214kms by road - as anything; he's only been in the elite system this year!

Make no mistake, he can seriously play football, and he's still got an enormous amount of upside.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think we are gonna have to try hidden gems. We are too far in our rebuild to get genuine quality because we probably won't be down that part of the ladder, taking an educated punt would be the best option. Clarke and scharenberg with our first pick would be a horrible choice we have how many inside midfielders? Outside speed such as someone who plays like Brad hill is a must

I don't mind if we play someone like Jack Steele, or Jack Steven outside.
The way i see it we have some "decent" inside mids:
Dunstan is inconsistent and has not improved since his first year.
Ross doesn't win enough "contested ball ".
The TEAM doesn't win enough contested ball.
We do not have an elite clearance/contested ball winner.

So because we have a few 2nd and 3rd grade inside mids, doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying for a 1st grader.
It sounds harsh but we can always trade one.

I'd love someone like Daniel Wells, but i'm not seeing someone like him available to us in this draft, drafting someone with obvious flaws and hoping they will go away is destructive IMO.
I'm still of the "draft the best available" frame of mind.

We have two first round picks ( potentially three ) next year if we are stuck with a glaring gap we need to fix.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Any chance you think of getting Cox AND the Pepper?

 

[Flandersss]

He's not on the radar due to X-factor, he's on it due to class.

The reason he's 'come from nowhere' is as attributable to his move from the Halls Creek in the Kimberley to Camperdown in the Corangamite Shire - that's 4,214kms by road - as anything; he's only been in the elite system this year!

Make no mistake, he can seriously play football, and he's still got an enormous amount of upside.

I know you don't like player comparison but who does he play like/remind you of?

 

[Barrels]

I know you don't like player comparison but who does he play like/remind you of?

Neil. Elvis. Winmar.

 

[Hayes4PM]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-...hayward-rocket-into-top-15-draft-calculations

For every "bolter" there is a resulting "slider". Here's hoping some guys with good recent form bump some guys like Simpkin, Bolton, Rotham down the order to 23.

 

[Ekomaira]

he's the brother of the guy from the recruit yeah?

 

[Mighty_sainter]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-...hayward-rocket-into-top-15-draft-calculations

For every "bolter" there is a resulting "slider". Here's hoping some guys with good recent form bump some guys like Simpkin, Bolton, Rotham down the order to 23.

No chance Simpkin makes it to 23

 

[RoundCubic]

He's not on the radar due to X-factor, he's on it due to class.

The reason he's 'come from nowhere' is as attributable to his move from the Halls Creek in the Kimberley to Camperdown in the Corangamite Shire - that's 4,214kms by road - as anything; he's only been in the elite system this year!

Make no mistake, he can seriously play football, and he's still got an enormous amount of upside.

This makes me annoyed we have no aboriginal development zone

 

[aussierulesrules]

I don't mind if we play someone like Jack Steele, or Jack Steven outside.
The way i see it we have some "decent" inside mids:
Dunstan is inconsistent and has not improved since his first year.
Ross doesn't win enough "contested ball ".
The TEAM doesn't win enough contested ball.
We do not have an elite clearance/contested ball winner.

So because we have a few 2nd and 3rd grade inside mids, doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying for a 1st grader.

We have two first round picks ( potentially three ) next year if we are stuck with a glaring gap we need to fix.

Exactly, so if contested ball is still looking like being a major issue for us and we do want to get that "1st grader", then as I said above, throw the kitchen sink at the likes of Fyfe/Martin/Shiel/Hopper next year and just make one of them an offer that's too good to refuse, with our huge war chest and fantastic trade assets.

They are all the types who could be the best in our midfield, either immediately, or down the track, and as such, I'd much rather spend up big on one of them if we want to improve our contested footy, than to spend our only top 30 pick this year on someone who is likely to be yet another "decent inside mid" and in their case, probably last in line for a spot in our midfield for at least a couple of years.

Aside from Josh Kelly (who all the talk suggests is very unlikely to leave GWS), there don't seem to be anywhere near as many really high quality fast and/or skillful outside types that are as safe a bet as the Fyfe/Martin/Hopper types that may be available to us in a trade or FA, so it may be time to start picking a few of them in the draft until we nail one or two of them.

 

[aussierulesrules]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-11-...hayward-rocket-into-top-15-draft-calculations

For every "bolter" there is a resulting "slider". Here's hoping some guys with good recent form bump some guys like Simpkin, Bolton, Rotham down the order to 23.

Indeed, would be great for us if he went top 15 I reckon (unless of course we want him at 23!). Given that Gold Coast will be using one of their top 10 picks on Bowes and GWS will be using 15 on Setterfield, it effectively means our pick 23 is pick 21 of the "non-academy" field.

Hoping that Hayward, Battle and Marshall all go before our first pick.

Looking at the picks GWS have left, it's interesting that no-one traded for their pick 15, in particular us. They're going to be using all those picks after 2 on their academy selections I would expect, so they would have had no reason to hold onto 15 especially.

Wonder if we tried to get a hold of it late in a trade for 23 and 36, but ran out of time? If we didn't, we must be really liking who we think will be available at 23 and 36.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Indeed, would be great for us if he went top 15 I reckon (unless of course we want him at 23!). Given that Gold Coast will be using one of their top 10 picks on Bowes and GWS will be using 15 on Setterfield, it effectively means our pick 23 is pick 21 of the "non-academy" field.

Hoping that Hayward, Battle and Marshall all go before our first pick.

Looking at the picks GWS have left, it's interesting that no-one traded for their pick 15, in particular us. They're going to be using all those picks after 2 on their academy selections I would expect, so they would have had no reason to hold onto 15 especially.

Wonder if we tried to get a hold of it late in a trade for 23 and 36, but ran out of time? If we didn't, we must be really liking who we think will be available at 23 and 36.

I guess it depends who you want between 15 and 23.
Then deciding if they are better than what you can get at 23 AND 36.

Players who "might" be available at 36 include, Powell Pepper, Drew, Fisher, Cox, Ridley, Graham , Scharenburg.
( OK some of them are unlikely ).

 

[aussierulesrules]

I guess it depends who you want between 15 and 23.
Then deciding if they are better than what you can get at 23 AND 36.

Players who "might" be available at 36 include, Powell Pepper, Drew, Fisher, Cox, Ridley, Graham , Scharenburg.
( OK some of them are unlikely ).

I just reckon we have a lot of depth now (with more to come in coming years) and as such, it would have been preferable to improve our chances of getting at least one potential "gun" who will actually get a game in the near future, by getting into the first round, rather than increase our chances of getting someone who is probably more likely to be depth going forward, by holding onto a pick in the mid 30's (as opposed to downgrading it to say pick 50, to enable us to move up from 23 to 15).

Maybe GWS just ran out of time, because surely if they didn't, one club would have traded up to 15.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Praying Berry is a slider

 

[Hayes4PM]

Praying Berry is a slider

Gotta be top 20, Mr. Consistent.