List Mgmt. Draft thread - 2025 (remaining picks: 29, 34)

[Keys]

Live draft hand
R1: 1 (Duursma), 4 (CDT), 19 (Lindsay)
R2: 29, 34
RD: 1

Draft picks pre-draft
R1: 1, 2, 13
R2: 34, 41
RD: 1

List spots available
Main list: 2 (includes Duursma, CDT, Lindsay)
Cat A Rookie list: 1 (expecting Robertson, Macrae and Schoenberg to join as SSP signings)
Cat B Rookie list: 1

Draft order

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Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)

Rookie Me Central 2025 Draft Guide

2025 AFL Draft Guide

online.fliphtml5.com

Matthew Clarke on Gettable 17/11

Spoiler

Cal Twomey’s Phantom Draft

Spoiler

 

[Shueygod]

There are A grade potential mids in every draft, but we are never usually in the position to pick them, but the one time we are you suggest we just keep waiting? There are players with just as much or more raw talent than Duursma or CDT every year, but the difference is you don’t need those utility types of players for a successful team, you need A grade contested mids.

Who was Collingwoods A grade contested mid in 2022? In fact I’d love to know which recent Grand Final team had an A grade contested mid taken in the top 10?

 

[Dale Doback]

First of all Dyson Sharp is far from a shit kick, and a far better player/leader than the Hobbgoblin so watch ya mouth.

Laying big tackles and having a strong contested inside game is literally how you stop opponents running away through the corridor with ease. Solve the problem at the source (stoppages) rather than try to address symptoms when it's too late.

Josh Dunkley isn't Insane Bolt by any stretch, The Bont has an initial burst but is no speedster, Pendlebury even in his prime was slow of leg but quick of mind. Tom Atkins at Geelong playing the extractor role isn't quick.

Who did have pace to burn? Jack Petrolchilli.

Yeah and when the oppo mids break from contest and your strong big bodied inside mid is struggling to keep up with his opponent on the spread what do you do with him? I like Josh Dunkley but he was pushed out of the dogs midfield for the same reason. And if he's on ball he plays a negating role for Brisbane now. Speed and gut run on ball has always been important but even more so now.

 

[uptheWC]

Right option sure, but all the noise is CDT. So as I said realistically where does it come from. You’re setting yourself up to think of the draft as a disaster when a lot of the talk is saying that, in your view, it never had a chance to begin with (in that Sharp was never going to be taken at 2).

I’d love if he was.

About the middle of the season when Sharp was dominating the national champs there was huge talk about him being our top 1/2 pick. Now that he’s been out of (Victorian) sight CTL form has suddenly become more important.

If we don’t take Sharp this draft will have been a huge fail by us, simple as that.

 

[uptheWC]

Who was Collingwoods A grade contested mid in 2022? In fact I’d love to know which recent Grand Final team had an A grade contested mid taken in the top 10?

Sometimes you get lucky and find them outside the top 10.

Brisbane 2024 & 2025 - Dunkley
Collingwood 2023 - Mitchell was still A Grade
Melbourne 2021 - Oliver
Richmond years - Cotchin
West Coast 2018 - Yeo

Again, many of these guys happened to be stumbled across outside the top 10. But when building a list you can’t rely on that luck.

 

[txbyhull]

About the middle of the season when Sharp was dominating the national champs there was huge talk about him being our top 1/2 pick. Now that he’s been out of (Victorian) sight CTL form has suddenly become more important.

If we don’t take Sharp this draft will have been a huge fail by us, simple as that.

Right option sure, but all the noise is CDT. So as I said realistically where does it come from. You’re setting yourself up to think of the draft as a disaster when a lot of the talk is saying that, in your view, it never had a chance to begin with (in that Sharp was never going to be taken at 2).

I’d love if he was.

I do not envy your post-draft melt when you’ve set yourself up for it already. I’d love Sharp at 2 but I just don’t reckon it happens

 

[Shueygod]

I’ve seen this take now twice, once in this thread and once in I wanna say Ed’s phantom thread. Where has this idea come from that Ginbey is “at worst” an A grade defensive mid? Am I losing my mind? I had old mate from the Essendon board tell me Ginbey becomes Dunkley at worst. What on earth are people smoking

I don’t think his floor is Dunkley, I think he could easily be Rowbottom/Atkins if we wanted.

Ginbey in games with 40% CBA’s where he wasn’t subbed (7 game sample) his rookie season he averaged:
15D
7.9T
8CP
3.2CL
From average of 56% CBA’s

Atkins (an A grade defensive mid) this year averaged:
19.6D
8.9T
11.5CP
5.7CL
From an average of 71%CBA’s


Given this was his debut season, which you can see he dropped off significantly as the season progressed (likely due to wear/injury), I think it’s clear to see he could at worse become Tom Atkins if we do wanted.

At best I could see him being Dunkley.

In my opinion this would be worst case as I’d hope some one else can fulfil that role and Ginbey continues being the best defender in the league but to me it shows that Sharp isn’t an absolute must.

 

[Dale Doback]

I do not envy your post-draft melt when you’ve set yourself up for it already. I’d love Sharp at 2 but I just don’t reckon it happens

Hey Sharp is your boy. That's cool. Not sure how much footy you've played on ball or forward of the footy but if a bloke with a poor kick like Sharp has it and you're leading to space, good luck.

 

[Shueygod]

Sometimes you get lucky and find them outside the top 10.

Brisbane 2024 & 2025 - Dunkley
Collingwood 2023 - Mitchell was still A Grade
Melbourne 2021 - Oliver
Richmond years - Cotchin
West Coast 2018 - Yeo

Again, many of these guys happened to be stumbled across outside the top 10. But when building a list you can’t rely on that luck.

Dunkley and Oliver I’ll pay, Cotchin isn’t what I’d consider a contested mid, Mitchell wasn’t A grade in 2023.

The majority of the contested type that feature in grand finals (Atkins, Rowbottom, Mitchell) can be found in the second round as they are limited footballers who are extremely good at select things.

They don’t get selected in the top 10 of the draft.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Judging by this thread opinion is so divided on this draft that no matter what we do on draft night this board will melt down and almost nobody will be happy.

 

[Shueygod]

“I’m sick of us trading out of the top 3 to 8-12 range and missing out on elite talent)”

“Let’s take the 8th-12th rated bloke at pick 2”

****ing idiots.

 

[uptheWC]

I do not envy your post-draft melt when you’ve set yourself up for it already. I’d love Sharp at 2 but I just don’t reckon it happens

I’m not melting now. I will melt if we don’t draft Sharp because it will effectively set us back two years in our rebuild. I’ll melt on your behalf.

 

[Shueygod]

I’m not melting now. I will melt if we don’t draft Sharp because it will effectively set us back two years in our rebuild. I’ll melt on your behalf.

The opposite is true, utilities/talls take longer to develop. Not selecting Sharp wouldn’t set us back at all.

 

[uptheWC]

Dunkley and Oliver I’ll pay, Cotchin isn’t what I’d consider a contested mid, Mitchell wasn’t A grade in 2023.

The majority of the contested type that feature in grand finals (Atkins, Rowbottom, Mitchell) can be found in the second round as they are limited footballers who are extremely good at select things.

They don’t get selected in the top 10 of the draft.

If we could magically pull a Will Ashcroft type balanced mid out of thin air this year instead of Sharp then cool I’d take that, but that’s not happening is it. A player in the mould of Tom Green or Josh Dunkley is the next best thing.

 

[uptheWC]

The opposite is true, utilities/talls take longer to develop. Not selecting Sharp wouldn’t set us back at all.

We are far better covered for talls than we are mids. We lack KPDs, but there are none in this draft. Shanahan and Waterman is far better than our midfield stock bar Reid.

 

[uptheWC]

“I’m sick of us trading out of the top 3 to 8-12 range and missing out on elite talent)”

“Let’s take the 8th-12th rated bloke at pick 2”

****ing idiots.

Except the lowest Sharp is ranked in the open pool is 7, which in itself is completely absurd. Ranked as high as 2 in some places, consistently in the 2-4 range of the open pool. Talk about twisting things to suit your agenda.

 

[Shueygod]

Except the lowest Sharp is ranked in the open pool is 7, which in itself is completely absurd. Ranked as high as 2 in some places, consistently in the 2-4 range of the open pool. Talk about twisting things to suit your agenda.

Academy prospects are relevant if they are ranked between CDT and Sharp e.g

CDT the 2nd/3rd best prospect and Sharp the 9th/10th.

You can’t just cry and say “open pool” when there’s 3+ blokes not available ranked between the 2.

For a more extreme example if CDT was ranked 1 then 12 academy prospects then Sharp you wouldn’t say “yeah but he’s the 2nd best rated in the open pool so there’s little between them”.

If we could magically pull a Will Ashcroft type balanced mid out of thin air this year instead of Sharp then cool I’d take that, but that’s not happening is it. A player in the mould of Tom Green or Josh Dunkley is the next best thing.

We will have up to 5 potential A grade mids on our list in 2027 without drafting Sharp, I’ve just provided evidence that a B grade contested/defensive mid is enough to make a GF (Brisbane the exception).

I’m also not convinced that the extra mid needs to be purely contested and believe we can get away with a tagger/balanced mid considering Harley at the peak of his powers will be the best contested player in the game.

I’d be very confident one of Hall/Gross/Allan/Hough/Ginbey/Mccarthy/ external recruit become a serviceable midfielder.

Taking sharp (an indisputably lesser talent than CDT) is betting against that.

 

[Shueygod]

We are far better covered for talls than we are mids. We lack KPDs, but there are none in this draft. Shanahan and Waterman is far better than our midfield stock bar Reid.

I agree we are blessed with our tall stocks, I think with CDT’s movement he’s not limited as a KPP, Mark Blicavs/Luke Jackson would fit in any team in the league irrespective of their tall stocks.

 

[uptheWC]

Academy prospects are relevant if they are ranked between CDT and Sharp e.g

CDT the 2nd/3rd best prospect and Sharp the 9th/10th.

You can’t just cry and say “open pool” when there’s 3+ blokes not available ranked between the 2.

For a more extreme example if CDT was ranked 1 then 12 academy prospects then Sharp you wouldn’t say “yeah but he’s the 2nd best rated in the open pool so there’s little between them”.



We will have up to 5 potential A grade mids on our list in 2027 without drafting Sharp, I’ve just provided evidence that a B grade contested/defensive mid is enough to make a GF (Brisbane the exception).

I’m also not convinced that the extra mid needs to be purely contested and believe we can get away with a tagger/balanced mid considering Harley at the peak of his powers will be the best contested player in the game.

I’d be very confident one of Hall/Gross/Allan/Hough/Ginbey/Mccarthy/ external recruit become a serviceable midfielder.

Taking sharp (an indisputably lesser talent than CDT) is betting against that.

Sharp is clearly top 3 in the open pool (Robey has no sample size to judge his potential output and his surge up the rankings is almost entirely recency bias) and there’s Annable, Uwland and Patterson as academy prospects amongst the top half a dozen. This has Sharp. Still not the 8-12 you claimed.

Who are the 5 potential A grade mids on our list in 2027? That seems like a gross overrating of our list.

For what it’s worth CDT is not a more talented footballer than Sharp, sure he’s a better athlete but in the end you should be drafting on footballing ability not athletic ability.

 

[uptheWC]

I agree we are blessed with our tall stocks, I think with CDT’s movement he’s not limited as a KPP, Mark Blicavs/Luke Jackson would fit in any team in the league irrespective of their tall stocks.

Mark Blicavs doesn’t make up for Geelong missing Bailey Smith, Luke Jackson doesn’t make up for Freo missing Andrew Brayshaw. A potential A Grade Ruck/Utility doesn’t make up for the lack of a potential A Grade midfielder.

 

[Shueygod]

Sharp is clearly top 3 in the open pool (Robey has no sample size to judge his potential output and his surge up the rankings is almost entirely recency bias) and there’s Annable, Uwland and Patterson as academy prospects amongst the top half a dozen. This has Sharp. Still not the 8-12 you claimed.

Who are the 5 potential A grade mids on our list in 2027? That seems like a gross overrating of our list.

For what it’s worth CDT is not a more talented footballer than Sharp, sure he’s a better athlete but in the end you should be drafting on footballing ability not athletic ability.

Sharp is clearly top 3 in the open pool despite 95% of draft watchers ranking him outside of that? Wouldn’t say that’s too clear to me mate.

The vast majority of power rankings has CDT at 2-3 and Sharp in the 8-12 range, exactly what I claimed.

Reid, Warner, Duursma, Hewett, 26F1, which of those don’t have A grade potential? Considering I said up to (dependent on Warner and 26f1, both likely imo) and that recent grand final teams have typically had 1-3 A grade mids anyway.

CDT is universally accepted as a more talented footballer, that’s the reason he’s going higher than Sharp despite Sharps better production. Football isn’t purely fundamentals.

 

[Shueygod]

Mark Blicavs doesn’t make up for Geelong missing Bailey Smith, Luke Jackson doesn’t make up for Freo missing Andrew Brayshaw. A potential A Grade Ruck/Utility doesn’t make up for the lack of a potential A Grade midfielder.

Geelong have two A grade mids, Fremantle have 2 A grade mids (excluding the consistently injured Young).

What likelihood are you giving 1 of Hewett/Duursma/26 f1 becoming A grade or Warner coming? (95%+ imo)

Literally 1 of those 4 things need to happen to have as many A grade mids as either of those teams.

None of those 4 things need to happen to have as many A grade mids as the two other prelim finalists this year.

Brisbane are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Dale Doback]

I guess all of this comes down to how you view impact. I played CHF/CHB and also center as a big bodied mid. A clean break from stoppage with the ball in the hands of a mid with a good leg makes the forwards job so much easier. And we've got the forwards who will lead hard in Waterman and now Shanahan. Look at Nasiah, he just hits the right option. That 2021 draft is elite but him going at 11 was a steal considering his talent. If we could find a player with his leg somewhere in the top 10 i'd be stoked.

 

[uptheWC]

Sharp is clearly top 3 in the open pool despite 95% of draft watchers ranking him outside of that? Wouldn’t say that’s too clear to me mate.

The vast majority of power rankings has CDT at 2-3 and Sharp in the 8-12 range, exactly what I claimed.

Reid, Warner, Duursma, Hewett, 26F1, which of those don’t have A grade potential? Considering I said up to (dependent on Warner and 26f1, both likely imo) and that recent grand final teams have typically had 1-3 A grade mids anyway.

CDT is universally accepted as a more talented footballer, that’s the reason he’s going higher than Sharp despite Sharps better production. Football isn’t purely fundamentals.

Sharp was always top 3 in the open pool throughout the year until Robey kicked a couple goals from the midfield and a (surprise surprise) Victorian half back suddenly jumped into the top 10.

Warner is obviously already an A grader but we can’t bank on getting him just yet. Duursma is much more likely to end up an A Grade outside mid than a balanced player. Hewett is an unknown at this stage but looks more of a Zac Bailey style half forward. How can you assume there will be a midfielder of Sharp’s calibre next year? Cody Walker is tied to Carlton and Lucas Robinson to Freo.

What footballing traits does CDT have over Sharp? Actually name them.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Dunkley and Oliver I’ll pay, Cotchin isn’t what I’d consider a contested mid, Mitchell wasn’t A grade in 2023.

The majority of the contested type that feature in grand finals (Atkins, Rowbottom, Mitchell) can be found in the second round as they are limited footballers who are extremely good at select things.

They don’t get selected in the top 10 of the draft.

Except we are beyond horrible at finding any midfielders beyond pick 10 since what, Shuey?

Failure after failure after failure. A better result would have been taken players names out of a hat.

Our record is dragraceful.

And now we have the golden tickets for how many years and we will still refuse to select contested midfielders at the pointy end of the draft, Reid the exception.

If not now, then when?

The whole lot of you will have the blood of Reid on your hands when he leaves.

 

[Priddis Is Done]

Sharp was always top 3 in the open pool throughout the year until Robey kicked a couple goals from the midfield and a (surprise surprise) Victorian half back suddenly jumped into the top 10.

Warner is obviously already an A grader but we can’t bank on getting him just yet. Duursma is much more likely to end up an A Grade outside mid than a balanced player. Hewett is an unknown at this stage but looks more of a Zac Bailey style half forward. How can you assume there will be a midfielder of Sharp’s calibre next year? Cody Walker is tied to Carlton and Lucas Robinson to Freo.

What footballing traits does CDT have over Sharp? Actually name them.

Fantasy unicorn.

Not a ruckman and never will be and he's not a natural forward.

He's a bust.