List Mgmt. Draft thread - 2025 (remaining picks: 29, 34)

[Keys]

Live draft hand
R1: 1 (Duursma), 4 (CDT), 19 (Lindsay)
R2: 29, 34
RD: 1

Draft picks pre-draft
R1: 1, 2, 13
R2: 34, 41
RD: 1

List spots available
Main list: 2 (includes Duursma, CDT, Lindsay)
Cat A Rookie list: 1 (expecting Robertson, Macrae and Schoenberg to join as SSP signings)
Cat B Rookie list: 1

Draft order

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Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)

Rookie Me Central 2025 Draft Guide

2025 AFL Draft Guide

online.fliphtml5.com

Matthew Clarke on Gettable 17/11

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Cal Twomey’s Phantom Draft

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[stallon]

I love your optimism

He is correct though

 

[stallon]

We need McCarthy where he plays best, delivering the ball out of our backline. Heres a novel idea, how about we leave the very good defenders where they are and just bring in some better midfielders to play in the midfield

We need him in the middle transitioning the ball so we can get the ball from d50 to f50

He is more effective in the middle than in d50

NWM became the best player in the comp the moment he moved into the middle, Naicos was around that mark too as soon as he moved into the middle

There is a reason those two arent defenders anymore. McCarthy is our NWM

 

[stallon]

No, I think a large part of our midfield deficiency is because we lack talented players capable of winning the ball in the midfield.

So you think that a 25 year old Harley, 26 year old Hewett, 29 year old McCarthy, 25 year old Hall, 24 year old Gross, 27 year old Hough, etc would still be the worst midfield in the comp?

Harley on his own makes that midfield middle of the pack, same as Daicos does for the Pies

 

[txbyhull]

If theyre not a top 5 talent then theyre not a top 5 talent.
Sharp fits here, hes in the 6-10 area probably, where CDT is at number 2 or 3 depenidng who you ask, only later if you are biased for some reason

Someone could use this exact same logic and change the players around lmao. Said a whole lot of nothing here mate. Usually like some of your takes but this is just a bit silly

 

[TheBudgies]

I’m not going to rage with whoever the club chooses to draft as long as we get two of Duursma, CDT, Robey and Sharp.

I don’t have the wealth of experience or the resources the club does and I haven’t seen as much of the kids live as Massey and the team have.

Sorry mate / champ / buddy /guy, you must be new here. What we do is we melt and bed wet based on players who are yet to have an AFL preseason. We pick a couple of players we like and we refuse to change our minds.

Try adding in something like "if we pick player X, the board should all be sacked"

Or

"If we don't draft player Y I'm picketing MRP all season"

Here at big footy we are the authorities NEVER admit there is anything you aren't an expert on.

 

[stallon]

Someone could use this exact same logic and change the players around lmao. Said a whole lot of nothing here mate. Usually like some of your takes but this is just a bit silly

General consensus would have at least Duursma, Robey, CDT and 3 of the academy kids(maybe Dean too) ahead of Sharp.

You could argue down 1 or 2 of those 7 names to be lesser than Sharp but realistically Sharp isnt in the top 5 there.

Its a weak draft, hes not top 5, we have pick 2.

Cant be taking the 4th best open pool option who is also the 6-10th best player in the whole pool at pick 2 just because we have a need for midfielders, especially not when Robey exists and CDT is also a need

This board seems just heavily biased against CDT for really no reason, just to justify taking Sharp.

People will say hitouts and tap work doesnt matter but in the same breath say that CDT is useless because his strength isnt tapwork lol.
What if CDT is Dan Curtin, but 4cm taller, much faster and able to chop out in the ruck? would be an incredible asset

 

[Shueygod]

Different kinds of players, but obviously Harley.

I feel theyre actually relatively similar, with Harley being the best possible version. Both contested ball winners who come out the front. Newcombe better defensively.

Completely different kinds of players

Are they? Both have similar strengths with Hewetts being more pronounced both have similar weaknesses in composure/rushed disposal.

Ward has played 67 games, and is also not a similar player to Duursma.

Sure but 67 game Ward was a top 4 midfielder in a prelim team this season, Duursma wouldn’t need to match peak Ward. Only his production from this year.

Depends who it is

Let’s go with Ginbey who has “shown nothing”, his rookie year in games with 40%+ CBA’s he averaged
15D
7.9T
8CP
3.2Cl

Nash this year averaged
18.4D
5.6T
8.3CP
4.7Cl

Are we expecting Reuben to be incapable of improving in the slightest from when he was 18?

Allan, Gross, Hall, Hough, Ginbey, McCarthy, Grego, Banfield, Evans, and Robertson have not shown anything to imply that they can be core parts of a flag-winning midfield. You might be able to say this in a few years time and it'll look better, but taking them individually then absolutely not. You can trust that one will hopefully end up an A grader, but that will always happen when you take 10 rolls of the dice...

We literally have 10 rolls of the dice though, it’s a relatively safe bet that one of the rolls can become the level of 2025 Nash/Ward.

The point of the exercise is not to compare like to like players, it’s to refute the suggestion that we absolutely don’t have the midfield quality on our list to be a top 8 worthy team in the future.

In all likelihood in 4 years time it’ll be a better midfield than one if not two of the prelim teams this year.

 

[txbyhull]

General consensus would have at least Duursma, Robey, CDT and 3 of the academy kids(maybe Dean too) ahead of Sharp.

I'd say that the only real consensus regarding Sharp being behind players is a boat load of non-midfielders + Robey. Annable as I keep saying has the same deficiencies that people on here have harped on Sharp about. He's probably as slow if not slower than Dyson while being slightly more balanced, and imo a worse kick but given people have said Sharp is a terrible kick and stuck by it I don't think that is a fight worth taking here.

You could argue down 1 or 2 of those 7 names to be lesser than Sharp but realistically Sharp isnt in the top 5 there.

Sharp not being a top 5 player in the pool just a face value isn't something I've ever argued.

Its a weak draft

Thats for ****ing sure

hes not top 5, we have pick 2.

Cant be taking the 4th best open pool option who is also the 6-10th best player in the whole pool at pick 2 just because we have a need for midfielders, especially not when Robey exists and CDT is also a need

Agree to disagree on CDT being a 'need'. He's the highest ceiling available sure but I struggle to see where specifically he gets on the park for us in the next 3 years. Robey and Sharp is an interesting comparison but I think that I have concerns over some of Robey's skillset that we sorely need. I am willing to put that down to him getting used to his new frame though.

This board seems just heavily biased against CDT for really no reason, just to justify taking Sharp.

Again, something that I could use the exact same logic the other way for.

People will say hitouts and tap work doesnt matter

They do.

but in the same breath say that CDT is useless because his strength isnt tapwork lol

He's not useless, idk about other people but thats not a view I've held for a long time now. It's more for me about what Sharp CAN do rather than what Duff CAN'T

 

[TerryFilk]

We need McCarthy where he plays best, delivering the ball out of our backline. Heres a novel idea, how about we leave the very good defenders where they are and just bring in some better midfielders to play in the midfield

Completely okay with McCarthy being the distributor from the back half but I do think his small sample size as a midfielder was incredibly exciting, he has all the tools to make that transition long term.

 

[txbyhull]

I feel theyre actually relatively similar, with Harley being the best possible version. Both contested ball winners who come out the front. Newcombe better defensively.

I think Newcombe as you say has a lot more of a defensive role than Harley does or should have.

Are they? Both have similar strengths with Hewetts being more pronounced both have similar weaknesses in composure/rushed disposal.

Worpel? The guy that people keep comparing Sharp to? Worpel who's only real use on the field is to tackle and be defensively accountable, win contested ball and a few clearances, and not really affect the game outside of stoppage? They doesn't sound anything like Hewett.

Sure but 67 game Ward was a top 4 midfielder in a prelim team this season, Duursma wouldn’t need to match peak Ward. Only his production from this year.

You're assuming that our team is as good as Hawthorn's in this scenario. For mine Hawks strength has never been their skills but their gameplan. ESPECIALLY their midfield. Its by far their worst part of the ground similar to ours. Its an apt comparison to us now scaled into the future, but we should be aiming higher in this specific part of the ground.

Let’s go with Ginbey who has “shown nothing”, his rookie year in games with 40%+ CBA’s he averaged
15D
7.9T
8CP
3.2Cl

Nash this year averaged
18.4D
5.6T
8.3CP
4.7Cl

Are we expecting Reuben to be incapable of improving in the slightest from when he was 18?

I don't think any of Reuben's issues in the midfield were about his raw performance. I think he doesn't have the disposal or stoppage IQ to really succeed there long term. Its never something he really did aside from being thrown in there in his late junior career. We need guys like Sharp, and as others say real midfielders, who seriously play there from young all the way through juniors into the AFL. The crash and bash hard ball player like Ginbey is fine, but we need to be aiming for guys with much greater stoppage craft and IQ.

We literally have 10 rolls of the dice though, it’s a relatively safe bet that one of the rolls can become the level of 2025 Nash/Ward.

Lets hope so.

The point of the exercise is not to compare like to like players, it’s to refute the suggestion that we absolutely don’t have the midfield quality on our list to be a top 8 worthy team in the future.

We may, but as I said, we are sorely lacking actual midfielders who play and grow as a mid. A reason why I would be going Robey or Sharp especially with 2. They've got runs on the board in their junior career as mids from young. Something that a majority of the players we keep mentioning don't have. It's the stereotypical WCE HB -> Mid

In all likelihood in 4 years time it’ll be a better midfield than one if not two of the prelim teams this year.

I'd love to hope so

 

[Shueygod]

I don't think any of Reuben's issues in the midfield were about his raw performance. I think he doesn't have the disposal or stoppage IQ to really succeed there long term. Its never something he really did aside from being thrown in there in his late junior career. We need guys like Sharp, and as others say real midfielders, who seriously play there from young all the way through juniors into the AFL. The crash and bash hard ball player like Ginbey is fine, but we need to be aiming for guys with much greater stoppage craft and IQ.

I think this was the case in his first year when Ginbey was our great hope and people were disappointed he didn’t have great stoppage craft/IQ.

He 100% has proven he has the stoppage craft/IQ to be Atkins/Nash/Long, I’ve just shown you him averaging the same CP’s and 1 less clearance than Nash his rookie season from a lower average CBA.

Ginbeys as good/better kick as the majority of those players as well.

Worst case his floor as a midfielder is the above players, I’d prefer him in the backline but if all of Allan, McCarthy, Hough develop as defenders it is definitely a trigger we can pull.

You're assuming that our team is as good as Hawthorn's in this scenario. For mine Hawks strength has never been their skills but their gameplan. ESPECIALLY their midfield. Its by far their worst part of the ground similar to ours. Its an apt comparison to us now scaled into the future, but we should be aiming higher in this specific part of the ground.

Agreed, and I think that midfield will comfortably be higher quality when you consider other acquisitions (Warner/draftees).

The point was that the eagles future midfield will likely be equivalent/better to some of the top 8 teams midfields from this season based purely on the players on our list + known draftees this year.

You’ve gone from saying “that’s optimistic” to agreeing but saying “we should aim higher” once I broke it down.

 

[stallon]

I'd say that the only real consensus regarding Sharp being behind players is a boat load of non-midfielders + Robey. Annable as I keep saying has the same deficiencies that people on here have harped on Sharp about. He's probably as slow if not slower than Dyson while being slightly more balanced, and imo a worse kick but given people have said Sharp is a terrible kick and stuck by it I don't think that is a fight worth taking here.

As I said, you could argue a couple of those guys I mentioned to be worse than Sharp, but I dont think theres enough to put him top 5.
The lack of mids at the top of the draft is just unfortunate, not a lot we can do about it. I dont think reaching a touch just to get a mid is an astute move as ive said before.

Sharp not being a top 5 player in the pool just a face value isn't something I've ever argued.

Thats for ****ing sure

Agree to disagree on CDT being a 'need'. He's the highest ceiling available sure but I struggle to see where specifically he gets on the park for us in the next 3 years. Robey and Sharp is an interesting comparison but I think that I have concerns over some of Robey's skillset that we sorely need. I am willing to put that down to him getting used to his new frame though.

In my mind CDT ends up playing a similar role to Jackson, yes hes a different player but as a KPF/mid/back up ruckman he fills a need.
Id have archer as our main ruckman, with CDT backing him up.
If Archer is our main ruckman then a chop out ruckman is needed.
Im not 100% sold on Robey either, but his ceiling is still there imo.

Again, something that I could use the exact same logic the other way for.

Im against Sharp because hes not best available, if we had pick 3 or 4 id be much more in favour of Sharp

They do.

Lucky we have Archer who imo is our future ruckman, and hes pretty good at his tapwork imo.

He's not useless, idk about other people but thats not a view I've held for a long time now. It's more for me about what Sharp CAN do rather than what Duff CAN'T

Do you think thats worth reaching for the lesser talent(general consensus)? I dont, we have more than 1 need and as much as people might argue against it we have/will improve our midfield this off-season.

 

[stallon]

I think this was the case in his first year when Ginbey was our great hope and people were disappointed he didn’t have great stoppage craft/IQ.

He 100% has proven he has the stoppage craft/IQ to be Atkins/Nash/Long, I’ve just shown you him averaging the same CP’s and 1 less clearance than Nash his rookie season from a lower average CBA.

Ginbeys as good/better kick as the majority of those players as well.

Worst case his floor as a midfielder is the above players, I’d prefer him in the backline but if all of Allan, McCarthy, Hough develop as defenders it is definitely a trigger we can pull.

If we dont get Sharp I wouldnt be against putting Maric/Bazzo as our 3rd talls and Allan as the 4th tall covering what Ginbey was doing and throwing Ginbey back into the middle in the defensive mid role.

I think itd be an interesting experiment to run with now that we do have capable offensive mids and Ginbey is more than physically ready now. Can always put him back to d50 if it isnt working, but I think Ginbey at least would be good in the middle.

Harley, Hewett and Ginbey lining up at a CBAs

Agreed, and I think that midfield will comfortably be higher quality when you consider other acquisitions (Warner/draftees).

The point was that the eagles future midfield will likely be equivalent/better to some of the top 8 teams midfields from this season based purely on the players on our list + known draftees this year.

You’ve gone from saying “that’s optimistic” to agreeing but saying “we should aim higher” once I broke it down.

 

[maverick001]

No we just downgrade and pick up supds like Bo Allen

How can you possibly have come to that conclusion based on the very limited exposure he’s had so far?
IMO, at worst he will be a good half back. Potential for much better. Half backs might not be a dire need for us right now, relatively speaking, but that’s no reflection on him.

 

[uptheWC]

ROFL. Would love to know how you came up with these figures. I’m guessing from somewhere the sun don’t usually shine.

of course they’re made up figures genius there’s no formula for this stuff. Good one though I guess

 

[maverick001]

You're right, that is an extreme example, given with 15 tied-talent, there's basically no mathematical way for every club to match the bids. So obviously they then come into contention. That is not even close to the reality of it though.

It doesn’t have to be close to reality to provide his point though. His point is well made

 

[txbyhull]

It doesn’t have to be close to reality to provide his point though. His point is well made

Well it does, considering in the event theres 15 tied talents in the top 15 it’s mathematically implausible for every single one to get matched

 

[uptheWC]

I'd say that the only real consensus regarding Sharp being behind players is a boat load of non-midfielders + Robey. Annable as I keep saying has the same deficiencies that people on here have harped on Sharp about. He's probably as slow if not slower than Dyson while being slightly more balanced, and imo a worse kick but given people have said Sharp is a terrible kick and stuck by it I don't think that is a fight worth taking here.

Sharp not being a top 5 player in the pool just a face value isn't something I've ever argued.

Thats for ****ing sure

Agree to disagree on CDT being a 'need'. He's the highest ceiling available sure but I struggle to see where specifically he gets on the park for us in the next 3 years. Robey and Sharp is an interesting comparison but I think that I have concerns over some of Robey's skillset that we sorely need. I am willing to put that down to him getting used to his new frame though.

Again, something that I could use the exact same logic the other way for.

They do.

He's not useless, idk about other people but thats not a view I've held for a long time now. It's more for me about what Sharp CAN do rather than what Duff CAN'T

How Robey is even in the mix for the top 5 is beyond me. Bloke had a couple of very good u18 games? It must be that everyone’s been in awe of his couple performances and there hasn’t been the time to pick apart his deficiencies like there has been for all the other top prospects.

 

[Selurs]

29 quotes across just 7 posts! This must be some kind of record. Not even Gunnar was that bad (and damn but he tried). Now, give yourselves a pat on the back, then if you don't terribly mind, knock it off?

 

[ThePuma #9]

We need McCarthy where he plays best, delivering the ball out of our backline. Heres a novel idea, how about we leave the very good defenders where they are and just bring in some better midfielders to play in the midfield

You do realise McCarthy played midfield before this year and prior to the Tigers putting him on the half back right? He’s fantastic down back and definitely fills a need but that’s not to say he couldn’t fill a different need in the middle. I’m very interested to see how he develops with a full pre season under his belt.

Also whilst i agree with you that we do need more midfield talent I also concede we need more talent full stop and that our rebuild is still years away from completion. We are not going to solve all our midfield woes this draft and whilst we can certainly add to that area perhaps the club sees taking the best talent available the priority atm for us and the higher need.

I’m not advocating for it mind you and I’m not pointing to any particular player and proclaiming they are better but there are other ways to improve our midfield such as moving McCarthy, trialling Starcevich, trading for players like Dev, adding mature bodied rookies to our list after the draft if we choose not to take Sharp or Cummings this draft.

I’m not suggesting those moves would be the solution, nor am I saying Sharp or Cumming would not be the preferred long term options… all I am saying is we are focused on the now whilst the team are looking at list management over years and years with the sole intention of contending for flags again. We may still need to draft pure mids at the top end of draft at some point but this may not be the year the club decides to.

If that’s the case I’m not going to rage as long as we take two of the top 4 players available at our selections.

 

[Knifey Spoony]

I think I have a solution. Let's use pick one on Sharp and pick two on CDT. Everybody wins!

 

[shooshka]

You do realise McCarthy played midfield before this year and prior to the Tigers putting him on the half back right? He’s fantastic down back and definitely fills a need but that’s not to say he couldn’t fill a different need in the middle. I’m very interested to see how he develops with a full pre season under his belt.

Also whilst i agree with you that we do need more midfield talent I also concede we need more talent full stop and that our rebuild is still years away from completion. We are not going to solve all our midfield woes this draft and whilst we can certainly add to that area perhaps the club sees taking the best talent available the priority atm for us and the higher need.

I’m not advocating for it mind you and I’m not pointing to any particular player and proclaiming they are better but there are other ways to improve our midfield such as moving McCarthy, trialling Starcevich, trading for players like Dev, adding mature bodied rookies to our list after the draft if we choose not to take Sharp or Cummings this draft.

I’m not suggesting those moves would be the solution, nor am I saying Sharp or Cumming would not be the preferred long term options… all I am saying is we are focused on the now whilst the team are looking at list management over years and years with the sole intention of contending for flags again. We may still need to draft pure mids at the top end of draft at some point but this may not be the year the club decides to.

If that’s the case I’m not going to rage as long as we take two of the top 4 players available at our selections.

McCarthy is a better back (and plays the distributor role which is so critical to success today) at an elite level already.

He absolutely showed promise in the midfield in the small sample size we got - but he was better in defence (understandably). He was also more promising in the midfield than a lot of our young mids (again understandable).

My preference is to keep him as a plug and play elite distributor, as it is such a critical role. But I understand if mini wants to develop him as a mid.

 

[shooshka]

There's way too many posts to do replies galore.

From my point of view we need a balanced midfield draft list... I was initially against sharp at pick 2. But I've come around.. he'll compliment duursma or Patterson (if we do the right thing and bid gc boys at 1) very well.
I doubt that sharp will get past Richmond's picks... It's between sharp and Robey and we have a couple of Robey types on the list already... So minimise the risk... Keep pick 2 and get Sharp

Patterson + Sharp is the least likely of any combination at 1+2 of all of the ideas listed.

If we went bid crazy at 1 and got Patterson we would be taking Duursma at 2. In fact (barring some sort of crazy trade offer) us getting Duursma is about the only easily predictable piece of this draft (almost certainly #1, small chance post-bids, but either way the main question is will the draft night jumper be oversized or not).

 

[jdisc]

we need McCarthy in the forward line transitioning the ball from the midfield to in-between the two big sticks

 

[Eastern Rangers]

People will say hitouts and tap work doesnt matter but in the same breath say that CDT is useless because his strength isnt tapwork lol.
What if CDT is Dan Curtin, but 4cm taller, much faster and able to chop out in the ruck? would be an incredible asset

If pigs were horses then peasants would be kings.