Review Dreamtime Game

[Tzatziki_Man]

I think a few of us are under the impression that each game will become better than the last.

Just not going to happen guys!

Development is not that simple. Let's assess that team per 4 games. First half of the season and second half of the season.

From what I can tell, we are much better & more competitive now than round 4. Although we played terrible, we scored our highest score of the year and we did 'beat' Essendon from that stage the scores were 43-2 till it got to 130-95.

King has got to go. White has got to go. Rance kicked a few, so there is worth exploring his potential.

Other than that, I don't mind the rest.

 

[tugga]

Vickery was rancid last night. Has not progessed one tiny bit. He worries me.
It was a very poor showing.
All the whingeing Essendon did during the week about the umpires helped them out last night.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Did you go to the Royal beforehand tugga? I had some time to kill and dropped in for a couple of pots. Was that you giving the topless barmaid a shoulder ride?

 

[Greggy]

Vickery was rancid last night. Has not progessed one tiny bit. He worries me.
It was a very poor showing.
All the whingeing Essendon did during the week about the umpires helped them out last night.

I'm still waiting to see a glimpse of a big man trait, he still plays like a ruck rover winning the loose ball from his opponents hit outs, I'm yet to see a strong grab or an effective hit out, we should have seen at least a couple by now, I'm not asking for a 4 quarter dominance, just a sign from a man that will eventually impose himself on a game once he builds his body and tank.
P.S We missed Jackson on Watson more than I thought we would.

 

[tugga]

Did you go to the Royal beforehand tugga? I had some time to kill and dropped in for a couple of pots. Was that you giving the topless barmaid a shoulder ride?

Wasn't me. I dropped in two quick pots andcaught the tailend of the blonde chick. Very tidy. But too crowded and hot so left.

I'm still waiting to see a glimpse of a big man trait, he still plays like a ruck rover winning the loose ball from his opponents hit outs, I'm yet to see a strong grab or an effective hit out, we should have seen at least a couple by now, I'm not asking for a 4 quarter dominance, just a sign from a man that will eventually impose himself on a game once he builds his body and tank.
P.S We missed Jackson on Watson more than I thought we would.

I'm noit expecting him to dominate games. But I haven't seen many signs from him (and no signs in the last fortnight whatsoever) that suggests he's up to it.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Wasn't me. I dropped in two quick pots andcaught the tailend of the blonde chick. Very tidy. But too crowded and hot so left.

I didn't really think it was you. I took a good hard look around, wondered "Could any of these blokes be tugga?" and decided you weren't there. Jeez it's a throwback the Royal. Time warp.

 

[RichosGuns]

Nahas was very poor. Starting to be shown up. Question marks starting to creep into his game after a good start to his career. Way too small and slight for someone with average disposal/decision making at best.

While i agree with you Barnzy, I think a fundemental problem for Nahas is the foward structure set up. Bassically he is being used as a lead up foward, which given his size, isn't ideal.

When the only guy we have in our foward line bigger then 6 foot is Jack Riewoldt, there isn't going to be alot of crumbing opputrunities for a guy like Nahas.

Thats why we need guys like Morton who will create more oppurtunities

 

[Bazzar]

I'm still waiting to see a glimpse of a big man trait, he still plays like a ruck rover winning the loose ball from his opponents hit outs, I'm yet to see a strong grab or an effective hit out, we should have seen at least a couple by now, I'm not asking for a 4 quarter dominance, just a sign from a man that will eventually impose himself on a game once he builds his body and tank.

Loose ball He dosnt get many possessions, but has an extremely high rate of contested possessions. I wouldnt be surprised if the ratio was in the leagues top 10. He is also in our top 6 for 1%ers for the year. For a big bloke its awesome he gets down and dirty, but needs to take more grabs in space and kick it more. Im a massive Ty fan, give him 3-4 years he will be one of the games genuine big guns.

 

[Gumblestar]

The one smallish positive I took out of tonight was our KPF in Jack showed a lot more than the Bombers supposed saviours in Hurley and Gumbleton. The Dons kicked 19 goals with only 2 coming from their true KPFs, 5 came from their 2 rucks while resting up/pushing forward, the other 12 came from midfielder/flanker types. If you're relying on those types to win you games of footy you're not going to go far when the heat is on come September.

Reiwoldt was a huge positive, I will start by saying that. Kid can be a genuine gun of the competition in a couple of years. Liked that he took a few contested marks to go with him marking from strong leads. Had his way with Pears much like last time though Pears was coming back from injury so may have been slightly off his game.
I cannot cop the Hurley/Gumbleton bagging. Saviours or not (both top 5 picks) they have played less than 20 games each and Hurley went down back for periods of the match. Gumbleton was very poor, not denying that but your comment about September spiked my interest.
If we make finals (and it will be a huge positive if we do) we cannot expect Gumby and Hurls to lead us to glory in 2010. They would have played less than 30 games each. 2012-13 is when we would be looking for those guys to be match winners in finals. They would be about 21 and 22 respectively and nobody is expecting them to be playing at their peak already. Gumbleton has only this year started to string games together, almost a first year footballer on the field.

 

[Wallaby]

Loose ball He dosnt get many possessions, but has an extremely high rate of contested possessions. I wouldnt be surprised if the ratio was in the leagues top 10. .

A high ratio of F*ck all is still F*ck all.

I've written Vickery off as a high draft pick. He has shown nothing to justify his selection in a year and a half. I don't expect him to beat Hille in the ruck, but I expect him to contest, pick up the ball when he's on his own, occasionally jump into a pack, and show something. A contested mark would be nice.

So drop him down to Coburg and treat him like a Pick #80 - not #8. If he earns a spot in the seniors - well and good (and a lot of ruckmen do get better at 23-24).

But so far I have seen nothing to say he is any better than any other young rucks (some on rookie lists, some in the the VFL).

Fact is, we probably f*cked up another draft pick.
Cox - Rookie Draft
Jolley - Rookie Draft
Hille - pick 40
Sandilands - Rookie
Mumford - Rookie Draft
Brogan - Rookie Draft
Maric - #40
Goldstein #37
Hudson #58 (at age 23).

If Vickery winds up as good as any of these we'll say 'Whew! Dodged a bullet!'. No signs yet.

Yes there are some top High-pick rucks - Ottens, Gardner, Kreuzer, KIng - but not many.

 

[_RT_]

Reiwoldt was a huge positive, I will start by saying that. Kid can be a genuine gun of the competition in a couple of years. Liked that he took a few contested marks to go with him marking from strong leads. Had his way with Pears much like last time though Pears was coming back from injury so may have been slightly off his game.
I cannot cop the Hurley/Gumbleton bagging. Saviours or not (both top 5 picks) they have played less than 20 games each and Hurley went down back for periods of the match. Gumbleton was very poor, not denying that but your comment about September spiked my interest.
If we make finals (and it will be a huge positive if we do) we cannot expect Gumby and Hurls to lead us to glory in 2010. They would have played less than 30 games each. 2012-13 is when we would be looking for those guys to be match winners in finals. They would be about 21 and 22 respectively and nobody is expecting them to be playing at their peak already. Gumbleton has only this year started to string games together, almost a first year footballer on the field.

I'm not talking about this year specifically, I'm talking long term. Last night was a good opportunity for both to stand up and show something. They weren't playing against gorilla KPD and yet were soundly beaten, if they can't get it done against Richmonds KPD how are they going to go fronting up against the likes of Geelong Dogs Lions Swans amongst others who all have bigger bodied KPDs.

 

[nighthawk]

I'm not talking about this year specifically, I'm talking long term. Last night was a good opportunity for both to stand up and show something. They weren't playing against gorilla KPD and yet were soundly beaten, if they can't get it done against Richmonds KPD how are they going to go fronting up against the likes of Geelong Dogs Lions Swans amongst others who all have bigger bodied KPDs.

Well, Hurley was playing as a swing man, so can't quite be put in the same boat as Gumby. 21 Disposals, 7 marks and a goal for someone who spent a bit of time down back is not that soundly beaten. Gumby definitely had a shocker.

Criticism is definitely deserved for last night. Hurley has been bad for a few weeks now, with this being the first week his injury was not that noticeable. Gumby on the other hand has had a great year, and this was a distinct drop in form.

Long term pessimism is a bit odd. Note that each has played a bit over a quarter of the games that Riewoldt has played, and that Hurley has scored more goals than Riewoldt had at this stage (made even more impressive considering he has spent alot of games in the backline.) Gumby this year has beaten Riewoldt's first couple of years, but his games from 07 are a bit hard to judge because of how much time he actually spent on the field during those games. Would you have written off Riewoldt at this stage? If not, then there's certainly no need to write off Gumby or Hurley.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not trying to start a "Hurley vs Roo" thing, just saying that writing someone off at this stage is pointless.

 

[tugga]

Well, Hurley was playing as a swing man, so can't quite be put in the same boat as Gumby. 21 Disposals, 7 marks and a goal or someone who spent a bit of time down back is not that soundly beaten. Gumby definitely had a shocker.

Criticism is definitely deserved for last night. Hurley has been bad for a few weeks now, with this being the first week his injury was not that noticeable. Gumby on the other hand has had a great year, and this was a distinct drop in form.

Long term pessimism is a bit odd. Note that each has played a bit over a quarter of the games that Riewoldt has played, and that Hurley has scored more goals than Riewoldt had at this stage. Gumby this year has beaten Riewoldt's first couple of years, but his games from 07 are a bit hard to judge because of how much time he actually spent on the field during those games. Would you have written off Riewoldt at this stage? If not, then there's certainly no need to write off Gumby or Hurley.

Hurley was good last night. Has a terrific tank.

 

[_RT_]

Well, Hurley was playing as a swing man, so can't quite be put in the same boat as Gumby. 21 Disposals, 7 marks and a goal for someone who spent a bit of time down back is not that soundly beaten. Gumby definitely had a shocker.

Criticism is definitely deserved for last night. Hurley has been bad for a few weeks now, with this being the first week his injury was not that noticeable. Gumby on the other hand has had a great year, and this was a distinct drop in form.

Long term pessimism is a bit odd. Note that each has played a bit over a quarter of the games that Riewoldt has played, and that Hurley has scored more goals than Riewoldt had at this stage (made even more impressive considering he has spent alot of games in the backline.) Gumby this year has beaten Riewoldt's first couple of years, but his games from 07 are a bit hard to judge because of how much time he actually spent on the field during those games. Would you have written off Riewoldt at this stage? If not, then there's certainly no need to write off Gumby or Hurley.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not trying to start a "Hurley vs Roo" thing, just saying that writing someone off at this stage is pointless.

I'm not writing them off completely, just saying that on last nights performance you wouldn't be feeling as confident about their prospects as we would be with Jack.

Last night Hurley and Gumbleton were playing in a forward line that also had Hille and Ryder floating through and yet couldn't get near it up forward. Jack on the other hand had Astbury a first year KPF with a handful of games as his only real support act.

 

[nighthawk]

I'm not writing them off completely, just saying that on last nights performance you wouldn't be feeling as confident about their prospects as we would be with Jack.

Last night Hurley and Gumbleton were playing in a forward line that also had Hille and Ryder floating through and yet couldn't get near it up forward. Jack on the other hand had Astbury a first year KPF with a handful of games as his only real support act.

Plenty of promising signs after only 15 games means that even in terrible games like last night, we can still be confident in them. Jack should be inspiring confidence for you, I'm certainly supportive of that. Was perhaps a bit fortunate to be playing on Pears in the state he was in, and that when Fletcher left we had no alternative. But the marks he took were great, and he seems to have improved his kicking alot.

Was very typical hot/cold footy from us too. Some patches were some of the worst we have shown in a month, since the ANZAC day match. After several weeks of good footy, one average game which still chalked up a win is not going to leave me unconfident.

Not sure that having a crowded forward line necessarily works in your favour does it? Being the sole target up forward is going to mean you're more of a focus point than if you have some red-hot alternatives which people are more likely to kick to. So yeah, I think that's actually not as relevant as you suppose.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Hurley was good last night. Has a terrific tank.

He's a class act, on the field. Off the field I hope the coward goes to jail.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Jack should be inspiring confidence for you, I'm certainly supportive of that. Was perhaps a bit fortunate to be playing on Pears in the state he was in

Yeah, fortunate. Jack would love to be fortunate enough to play on Pears every week. You could have swung Hurley back onto him, but then Jack gave him a bath last year too.

Not sure that having a crowded forward line necessarily works in your favour does it? Being the sole target up forward is going to mean you're more of a focus point than if you have some red-hot alternatives which people are more likely to kick to. So yeah, I think that's actually not as relevant as you suppose.

There is a difference between a crowded forward line and having more than one viable target. Jack will benefit enormously from having another big body around.

 

[Gumblestar]

I'm not talking about this year specifically, I'm talking long term. Last night was a good opportunity for both to stand up and show something. They weren't playing against gorilla KPD and yet were soundly beaten, if they can't get it done against Richmonds KPD how are they going to go fronting up against the likes of Geelong Dogs Lions Swans amongst others who all have bigger bodied KPDs.

That is the issue then isn't it? These are kids that have not played 20 games yet you are questioning how successful they will be based on one poor game from Gumbleton. Hurley was solid last night, played back at times. Don't see where you are going with this. Reiwoldt was brilliant last night but he was also your sole forward capable of kicking goals so the delivery was all to him. The lads are coming along just fine.

 

[the ranger]

A high ratio of F*ck all is still F*ck all.

I've written Vickery off as a high draft pick. He has shown nothing to justify his selection in a year and a half. I don't expect him to beat Hille in the ruck, but I expect him to contest, pick up the ball when he's on his own, occasionally jump into a pack, and show something. A contested mark would be nice.

So drop him down to Coburg and treat him like a Pick #80 - not #8. If he earns a spot in the seniors - well and good (and a lot of ruckmen do get better at 23-24).

But so far I have seen nothing to say he is any better than any other young rucks (some on rookie lists, some in the the VFL).

Fact is, we probably f*cked up another draft pick.
Cox - Rookie Draft
Jolley - Rookie Draft
Hille - pick 40
Sandilands - Rookie
Mumford - Rookie Draft
Brogan - Rookie Draft
Maric - #40
Goldstein #37
Hudson #58 (at age 23).

If Vickery winds up as good as any of these we'll say 'Whew! Dodged a bullet!'. No signs yet.

Yes there are some top High-pick rucks - Ottens, Gardner, Kreuzer, KIng - but not many.

He's played 18 games ffs and wouldn't have played half that if we had any decent experienced ruckmen.

His first 18 measure up just fine against Cox. More disposals, more goals, about twice as many tackles. There's no way you should be writing him off already.

 

[nighthawk]

There is a difference between a crowded forward line and having more than one viable target. Jack will benefit enormously from having another big body around.

True, but surely an individual player is gonna get better stats getting all the delivery than when the mids have got lots of other options to kick to. Especially when those other options are performing well and seem much safer options. And even then, alot of the time the mids didn't need to go to a forward, they could just kick the goal themselves, as shown by the 14 individual goalscorers. Point being, even though they were on the winning side, Hurley and Gumby still didn't have nearly as good delivery as Riewoldt.

Again, not for a second taking anything away from what was a spectacular game by Roo. Just saying that RT using a crowded forward line as a reason why the bombers boys should have performed better, is a bit back-to-front.

 

[SleepingGiant]

Still dont like Lids on the HBF. When he went into the guts in the first qtr we played our best footy. We are excelent in center clearances, but they go to no one, and its rebounded back to Lids to get us out of trouble. Our center clearances would be nice to go to him in the first place. Its like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Handbrake Hardwick. Lets play Lids and Cotchin on the half-back line. Come on fellas I mean we arent good but right now we are teaching players (i.e. playing Lids and Cotchin on half back to teach them accountability, suspending Connors to make sure he is good offield, sropping Morton to make him work for his spot and not be a selfish lazy prick, etc.)

All this crazy bullshit is going to happen for this year and next year yet. Then I believe Hardwick will know what he has going forward, what he needs, and will know who plays their best footy where. He will then leave them there so they can develop. In year 3-4 of his tenure, however long it takes we will see this list come like a freight train.