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Drop Stephen Hill

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Its very hard to make an impact as an A grader when your playing with
a majority of C graders
The opposition knows they can drop of a JVB,Hinkley,Pearce,Buca etc and concentrate on a Hill,Pav etc and not get hurt.
The load on the A and B graders increases with the addition of more C graders
At the moment due to injuries we are overloaded with C graders
The idiots on here who cant seem to grasp that concept is mind bogling
Hill is not being tagged ,he's being r*ped at the moment
for **ck sake get of his back
 
salim malik said:
Its very hard to make an impact as an A grader when your playing with
a majority of C graders
The opposition knows they can drop of a JVB,Hinkley,Pearce,Buca etc and concentrate on a Hill,Pav etc and not get hurt.
The load on the A and B graders increases with the addition of more C graders
At the moment due to injuries we are overloaded with C graders
The idiots on here who cant seem to grasp that concept is mind bogling
Hill is not being tagged ,he's being r*ped at the moment
for **ck sake get of his back
Click to expand...
Judd played with a majority of C graders every week at the Eagles. Got them all premiership medals.

Ablett plays with kids and D graders each week, still hot in the running for most awards despite being in the last placed team.

Pavlich has played most of his career with a majority of C graders, still multiple AAs and accolades

What separates the A graders from the rest is their ability to perform no matter what their side is doing. Hill has that potential. But some of the signs he's been showing are unforgivable. Winning his own ball is paramount to him being an A grader.
 
I think he needs to bulk up some more so he can be more confident in throwing his weight around. I really doubt he'd lose pace.

Also his ball handling was more of a liability on the weekend than his attack on the football.

Blue and Gold Blood said:
AFL quality players of today need to be able to kick 50m on both feet.
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What a crock of shit.
 
Clay Davis said:
Judd played with a majority of C graders every week at the Eagles. Got them all premiership medals.

Ablett plays with kids and D graders each week, still hot in the running for most awards despite being in the last placed team.

Pavlich has played most of his career with a majority of C graders, still multiple AAs and accolades

What separates the A graders from the rest is their ability to perform no matter what their side is doing. Hill has that potential. But some of the signs he's been showing are unforgivable. Winning his own ball is paramount to him being an A grader.
Click to expand...
you forgot to mention that both judd & ablett, were surrounded by two of the best midfields in living memory.
 

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leungtl said:
I think you may be selling one of the greatest coaches in NBA history a tad short there...
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Hardly. Jackson was a fantastic people manager and his record speaks for itself. However, Jordan set the standard on court - you can't win 72 games in a season by taking nights off - and everyone else had to step up accordingly. That's the point I'm making, the on-field leaders need to set the standard of what is acceptable.

I mean Jackson coached Shaq aswell - someone notorious for taking nights off on the road and using the season to get in shape for the finals - at the Lakers and they never matched that record. Despite having a more talented group of players overall, are those Lakers teams ever put in the same sentence as Jordan's Bulls?

Anyway enough basketball...

Hill can't be dropped, simply being in the side and getting tagged is helping everyone around him at the moment. He needs to start winning his own footy more often, that should come with time. I mean, he's pretty much on par with a player like Ablett at the same age. Yes, he can be that good.
 
Stronzo said:
I think he needs to bulk up some more so he can be more confident in throwing his weight around. I really doubt he'd lose pace.

Also his ball handling was more of a liability on the weekend than his attack on the football.


What a crock of shit.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
In his first year he attacked the man more readily. He was 69kg.
He's bigger now but has less...balls?
 
Clay Davis said:
'Ablett plays with kids and D graders each week, still hot in the running for most awards despite being in the last placed team.'
Click to expand...

How do you think Ablett would be going as a 21 year old?

Yes, Hill has work to do. Dropping him back to the WAFL isn't going to help him go harder and break tags though. He'd have no trouble cruising around in the WAFL. It certainly isn't going to help our team this week.

We'd be better off starting him on-ball as often as possible for a half at AFL level. Put the responsibility of going hard at the contest square at his feet. If he holds back, the opposition is going to win the ball.
 

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Lach72 said:
Yeah he's also 26
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He sure is, and was coasting along doing little until Paul Chapman famously gave him a rocket, telling him he could be the best player in the comp if he started doing more.

It's not really that hard to see what Hill's potential is and what it requires for him to get to that level. I don't think dropping him is the answer, but if he continues in that form and the club makes excuses for him, then he is on the road to nowhere.
 
I dont think dropping him is the answer, what we are/ have been missing are a couple of bigger bodies (ie McPhee, Mundy, Suban, 211) around the contests who can either a: extract the ball and get it to Hill and off he runs, or b: protects Hill when he has the ball so he can run on and penetrate with his kick.

Unfortunately we dont have that luxury at the moment, and far to often Hill is on the outside just waiting and hoping....
 
Lach72 said:
I just want him to have a bloody fair dinkum go.
All you can ever ask is when it's time they take their turn
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I think everyone is in the same boat Lach.

If someone like JVB went in half-hearted, sure I would be shitty, but to be honest I wouldn't really care. With Hill though, because I know how great he could be, it's a hell of a lot more disappointing when I see him doing things that great players just don't do.

Sack up Humphrey Bear.
 
The premise of this thread was never about Hills ability or inability to break a tag.

Building up the required fitness base takes years, quality preseasons.

Hill no doubt had an interrupted preseason.

The issue and it is not exclusive to last weeks game is his attack on the ball, specifically the one on one contests which he either wins outright or loses completely.

In round one he stuck out on arm on Banfield, deviated off his line.

Against Mckenzie on the weekend he pulled up before the contest and allowed Mckenzie to win the ball at ground level without taking so much as a glancing blow.

It was soft.

Perhaps this is the reason we have never tasted the ultimate success, to allow this type of play and look for excuses when it is plainly evident that Hill has done the wrong thing speaks volumes for the culture of our club and its supporters.

Any player, regardless of their standing within the team should be held accountable for their actions, this isnt the first time he has shirked a hit.

The fact that he is a marquee player makes it all the more important to take a stand and demonstrate what is acceptable and what is not.

What will the player group react to more, JVB being dropped for a lack of skill, or Hill being dropped for a lack of courage.

Sends a pretty clear message of what is acceptable at the club and what is not.
 
GordonGecko said:
The premise of this thread was never about Hills ability or inability to break a tag.

Building up the required fitness base takes years, quality preseasons.

Hill no doubt had an interrupted preseason.

The issue and it is not exclusive to last weeks game is his attack on the ball, specifically the one on one contests which he either wins outright or loses completely.

In round one he stuck out on arm on Banfield, deviated off his line.

Against Mckenzie on the weekend he pulled up before the contest and allowed Mckenzie to win the ball at ground level without taking so much as a glancing blow.

It was soft.

Perhaps this is the reason we have never tasted the ultimate success, to allow this type of play and look for excuses when it is plainly evident that Hill has done the wrong thing speaks volumes for the culture of our club and its supporters.

Any player, regardless of their standing within the team should be held accountable for their actions, this isnt the first time he has shirked a hit.

The fact that he is a marquee player makes it all the more important to take a stand and demonstrate what is acceptable and what is not.

What will the player group react to more, JVB being dropped for a lack of skill, or Hill being dropped for a lack of courage.

Sends a pretty clear message of what is acceptable at the club and what is not.
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You're right. If it was a once-off squib this wouldn't even be raised. Fact is, he's seemingly getting worse the more experienced and mature he gets - I don't remember him doing it at all in his first season. In fact, I remember cringing when he threw his scrawny body at contests. Calling him out on it is probably the only way to make him grow a set or realise that it's not acceptable from anyone, let alone the good players we depend on.

Unfortunately I don't think the 'Duffield stand' of dropping important players to send a message will ever be repeated again.

I can only see fringe players (Pearce, Crichton etc) or players that get offside with Harvey (Palmer, Walters) getting that treatment.

Plus, realistically, our injury list kind of gives Harvey a decent excuse.
 

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esquilax said:
I think it's possibly been bad coaching.

I suspect he's been told to keep his feet at all times, at least that's what it looks like. If he's on his feet and can be given the ball, his line breaking run is near impossible to stop.

The problem with that theory is his team mate's total lack of clean handling, and then the seemingly endless need to get the bloody ball back all the time. :mad:
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Reminds me of an article I read recently about Daniel Well. Some real similarities in their skill set and athleticism.

Two things apparently have made the difference this year...

1. Apparently Wells was told this year to go and be responsible for getting his own ball, rather than hanging back and waiting for the handball out. He now rates second in contested possessions at the Roos. And bear in mind the number of hard nuts at the Roos... that's saying something.

2. He had his best preseason for a long time, and his fitness is right up there.

I agree Hilly may be doing what the coach told him, but regardless of fitness I don't remember him throwing himself at the ball very much a la MDB. Some of that may be due to direction, but some of it is bound to be a lack of commitment to the contest.

I don't remember him being soft in his first couple of seasons. Recollection is that he was harder at it that I'd have guess for such a skinny bloke, but that has changed now.

Another thing to consider is that if he's waiting off the pack he'll be easier to tag. Mixing things up by going in and getting the ball himself will make it harder for his tagger to limit his influence.
 
Clay Davis said:
'Ablett plays with kids and D graders each week, still hot in the running for most awards despite being in the last placed team.'
Click to expand...

Do you really think comparing 2011 Ablett with Hill is fair? In his third season he got 300 odd possesions compared to over 700 in 2009 and 2010. Having said that my recollection of Ablett back at the start(when he had hair) was a bulldogged determination to get his hands on the ball at all costs. Certainly Hill has to develop any weak areas if he wants to be an out an out star. Time will tell but lets give him some time.
 
Three reasons why dropping Hill is a stupid idea:

1. Our current injury list is beyond a joke.

2. Even when he isnt playing well, he takes a tagger out of the game. And on the occasion he pops up and delivers a precise inside 50. So its a win/win.

3. He isnt any where near as soft as people make him out to be. Hes realistic. Theres a reason why u dont see milne/ballas running back with the flight like a brown or reiwoldt. Hill will lose a 50/50 more often than not, due to size/age/weight. However if he plucks the ball out throwing out the one hand then its almost garunteed to be a inside 50.

I personally i think Hill is HUGELY overated. However he is still a great asset to the team.
 
The WTF point for me was in the second when melbourne got a free. he trootted off like a little school boy to get the ball for the opposition while his direct opponent (Sylvia) ran off.

When Hilly threw it back the pass went direct to Sylivia who set up a goal.

I stopped doing that when I was about 12.

His mind is nowhere near where it needs to be and has taken massive steps backwards this year.
 
believe_it said:
Do you really think comparing 2011 Ablett with Hill is fair? In his third season he got 300 odd possesions compared to over 700 in 2009 and 2010
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How is it unfair?

Why not compare Judd in his third season to Hill?
Or Cooney.
Or Joel Selwood.
Or Peter Matera's second season as a 22 year old.

The list goes on. Compare Hill's stats with those blokes. Compare Hill's impact on games with them. Where do you think he sits?
 

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