Easy Grammar Fix

[Snag Breac]

Me too.

I read a stack of Mark Twain when I was 12/13, and proceeded to do my next 2 English assignments in the voice of Jim. The teacher applauded my creativity and then urged me to stop.



Except Tim Winton. He's a two-bit hack



That thread could use a jolt.

I agree mostly about Winton. I enjoyed his books for kids, but the only other book of his I've read was The Riders, which I absolutely hated - such a cliched view of Ireland. But so many Aussies think so well of him. Maybe I just don't get it.

Yes, will go and bump The Library.

 

[mdc]

I agree mostly about Winton. I enjoyed his books for kids, but the only other book of his I've read was The Riders, which I absolutely hated - such a cliched view of Ireland. But so many Aussies think so well of him. Maybe I just don't get it.

Hey! A fellow anti-Wintite. Splendid.

I estimate roughly half of my disputes in the lit dept were to do with Tim Winton. The other half were to do with George Orwell.

 

[KingsCrow]

I agree mostly about Winton. I enjoyed his books for kids, but the only other book of his I've read was The Riders, which I absolutely hated - such a cliched view of Ireland. But so many Aussies think so well of him. Maybe I just don't get it.

Yes, will go and bump The Library.

Read Breath(e)? (cant remember the name now!)

Or Cloudstreet. Both excellent books.



Deadly Una & Nakinya(?) were both books I read early on.

 

[Snag Breac]

Hey! A fellow anti-Wintite. Splendid.

I estimate roughly half of my disputes in the lit dept were to do with Tim Winton. The other half were to do with George Orwell.

Orwell? One of the best ever writers of clear English. I read every one of his books when I was at uni. What would he think of today's rampant weasel-wordery?

Don't you like him, MDC?

 

[mdc]

Orwell? One of the best ever writers of clear English. I read every one of his books when I was at uni. What would he think of today's rampant weasel-wordery?

Don't you like him, MDC?

Let me put it this way; if language is music (and it is), Orwell is tone-deaf. His is the most wooden, pragmatic prose I've ever read. He's a preacher masquerading as a writer. Some nice ideas, certainly, but that's never been enough.

Weasel-wordery? Have anyone in particular in mind? Wouldn't be a reference to Eco by any chance?

 

[Snag Breac]

Let me put it this way; if language is music (and it is), Orwell is tone-deaf. His is the most wooden, pragmatic prose I've ever read. He's a preacher masquerading as a writer. Some nice ideas, certainly, but that's never been enough.

Weasel-wordery? Have anyone in particular in mind? Wouldn't be a reference to Eco by any chance?

True Orwell's no poet, but the plainess of his style makes it a pleasure to read. I just ignore his ideas and enjoy his stories and his insights. His understanding of the power of language as evidenced in 1984 puts him years ahead of his time.

As for the purveyors of weasel words, J'accuse;

politicians
tyrants
bureaucrats
the media
education departments everywhere
the corporates
PR people
the churches
universities - and they shouldn't be forgiven.

I think that covers most of them.

 

[mdc]

As for the purveyors of weasel words, J'accuse;

politicians
tyrants
bureaucrats
the media
education departments everywhere
the corporates
PR people
the churches
universities - and they shouldn't be forgiven.

Mais oui, c'est evident.

As the great Ben Cousins once said; "c'est la vie"

 

[Snag Breac]

Mais oui, c'est evident.

As the great Ben Cousins once said; "c'est la vie"

But is he toujours dans les guerres?

 

[mdc]

But is he toujours dans les guerres?

avec chance, das les guerres contre Carlton.

 

[Pie eyed]

La plupart d'entre nous n'a aucune idée ce qui êtes vous sur environ.

Et j'ai dû recourir au babelfish pour interrompre votre petite liaison française.

Vive la babelfish...vive

Ich bin eine Berliner................rofl

 

[ssfc0203]

Babelfish is god

 

[Rohan25]

Hey Snag, here's one I should know, but am always unsure about. When do I use whilst instead of while?

 

[Godfrey Jones]

Hey Snag, here's one I should know, but am always unsure about. When do I use whilst instead of while?

hi snag. i tried looking up google for this and came across the following explanation:

In both cases, the form ending in -st actually contains the -s of the genitive ending (which we still have today, though usually written as ’s, of course). In Middle English, this was often added to words used as adverbs (as while became whiles, which often turned up in the compound adverbs somewhiles and otherwhiles). What seems to have happened is that a -t was later added in the south of England through confusion with the superlative ending -st (as in gentlest).

I'm even more confused now.... halp!

 

[Bloben]

I'm no Snag but to my knowledge While and Whilst mean the same thing and both are acceptible. Basically up to the writer as to which one to use.

 

[Snag Breac]

hi snag. i tried looking up google for this and came across the following explanation:

In both cases, the form ending in -st actually contains the -s of the genitive ending (which we still have today, though usually written as ’s, of course). In Middle English, this was often added to words used as adverbs (as while became whiles, which often turned up in the compound adverbs somewhiles and otherwhiles). What seems to have happened is that a -t was later added in the south of England through confusion with the superlative ending -st (as in gentlest).

I'm even more confused now.... halp!

The bad news is - this is quite a short, clear explanation of the stirring story of while and whilst. But there's no place for complexity in BF's Easy Grammar Fix. Rest assured lads, whichever shades of meaning may have existed since the dawn of history are little known or understood today. The 2 words are used interchangeably most of the time, but whilst, like amongst is falling into disuse and is considered antiquated or literary.

Also, while is used to mean a period of time - I'll be there in a wee while and as a verb - To while away the hours. Whilst is not used in either of these cases.

N.B. Amongst often sounds better than among when used before a vowel. Who amongst us wouldn't kill for Collingwood? sounds better than Who among us.......

 

[Snag Breac]

This from today's Age. Easy Grammar Fix is anxious to succour as many dying words as possible. Lose words and we lose their meanings.

A malison on the niddering who vilepend these fine words

• Katherine Kizilos November 17, 2008

Just because a word is rarely used is no reason to discard it from a dictionary.
IN ENGLAND, a campaign has begun to save endangered words. The words might not make it into a new Collins Dictionary, and have been placed on a doubtful list. They have been pushed to the edge of extinction because people don't use them enough any more.
Many of the words are charming, evoking sensations of affection and vague familiarity, in this reader at least. Some recall the nonsense words in Lewis Carroll's poem Jabberwocky, which is made up of wonderful concoctions (callooh, callay!) that are delicious to say out loud and sound as though you already know what they mean.
The word guardians at Collins told The Times, which has spearheaded the campaign, that the words would be given a second chance if they were found to be in circulation before February. Articles (like this one) arguing for their salvation will not count.
The Collins people want evidence that people are actually using the words.
To this end England's poet laureate, Andrew Motion, has taken up skirr, which means a whirring or grating sound as of the wings of birds in flight. Actor Stephen Fry has adopted fubsy — which means short and squat — a word that should stay with us for as long as chips and bacon butties remain part of the English diet.
In the interests of compossibility (and to save the word compossible, which means possible in existence with something else and is also a philosophical concept in which mutually contradictory worlds can co-exist) perhaps the campaign should be taken up in Australia too.
The English might find the antipodes agrestic, but it is apodeictic that a call to save obscure words from becoming recrement, or from fading into calignosity, would be of interest to those Australians who like to talk, read and write. We are not a niddering people, and a malison on those who would say we were.
It might also be roborant to take up such a cause. What should our tactics be? Should we approach the matter with mansuetude or oppugnancy?
It is difficult to vaticinate, and easy to become embrangled in tactical discussions while the words themselves teeter on the brink of caducity.
Some might say that exuviating these words is part of a natural process, that it may even be abstergent and inevitable. The argument is griseous.
Some words one would like to keep because of the way they roll off the tongue, others because the ideas they define are worth preserving. I would put compossible in this camp and wish to make a special plea for muliebrity. It is not a lovely sounding word and its meaning — the condition or quality of being a woman — surprised me.
While it has been good to discover that such a word exists, I hope — now that I have found it — that it does not disappear before I have learnt how to use it.
In this case it is possible, however, that the word has fallen into disuse because we are no longer sure what it defines.
Wikipedia describes muliebrity as the female counterpart to virility — "he exercised his virility and she received her muliebrity". It comes from the Latin muliebritas, meaning womanhood.
Despite this information, I am still having trouble understanding muliebrity. Virility is a straightforward idea, but the condition of being a woman strikes me as various and, unfortunately, is often contestable. And why is muliebrity received? Fubsiness is a doddle by comparison (and I predict a nitid future for the word).
In the meantime, people, buy your mother a periapt and don't vilipend your dictionary. I don't want to be fatidical, but the words might have a chance if you decide they are not olid, and start using them.
And now for some definitions, courtesy of The Times.
Abstergent: cleansing or scouring; agrestic: rural, rustic, unpolished, uncouth; apodeictic: unquestionably true by virtue of demonstration; caducity: perishableness, senility; calignosity: dimness, darkness; embrangle: to confuse or entangle; exuviate: to shed (a skin or similar outer covering); fatidical: prophetic; griseous: streaked or mixed with grey; somewhat grey; malison: a curse; mansuetude: gentleness, mildness; niddering: cowardly; nitid: bright, glistening; olid: foul-smelling; oppugnant: combative, antagonistic or contrary; periapt: a charm or amulet; recrement: waste matter; refuse; dross; roborant: tending to fortify or increase strength; vaticinate: to foretell; prophecy; vilipend: to treat or regard with contempt.

I've never heard of most of these words, but I'm happy to make their acquaintance.

 

[mdc]

Sesquipidelian much?

 

[Snag Breac]

Sesquipidalian much?

Yeah, but I quite like fubsy,and I've always used skirr.

 

[beez]

I actually used oppugnant the other day

 

[Snag Breac]

I actually used oppugnant the other day

A Latin scholar? Or was it by accident?

 

[mdc]

Yeah, but I quite like fubsy,and I've always used skirr.

Was tongue-in-cheek, I just thought it was an appropriate BF response


It's a cute idea, but I'm more interested in the genesis of new words based solely on their phonetic qualities. Sort of what Carroll was banging on about, I suppose.

 

[beez]

A Latin scholar? Or was it by accident?

Ixnay on the Hombre...

I hope that answers your question. Wait...maybe it wont

 

[Snag Breac]

Ixnay on the Hombre...

I hope that answers your question. Wait...maybe it wont

I understood 'ixnay', but had to google the rest. A good idea. There should be many more ixnays on hombres.

And Bernard Shaw, MDC.

 

[Godfrey Jones]

This from today's Age. Easy Grammar Fix is anxious to succour as many dying words as possible. Lose words and we lose their meanings.

well, speaking of words exiting the dictionary, how bout new ones entering??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4764830a4560.html

The phrase “meh” has earned a place in the 30th edition of the Collins English Dictionary, according to media reports.

“Meh" beat "frenemy", an enemy who pretends to be a friend, "huggles", a combination of a hug and a snuggle and "jargonaut", meaning someone who excessively creates new words, to be included.

im so glad words like frenemy and huggles have been excluded... i shudder at the thought of those becoming official words

 

[pongo_3931]

This is the reason I keep a dictionary from 1985 on my shelf. Words in it simply don't exist in newer dictionaries.

I'm out to save a word that I can't believe has fallen out of use because... well I just assumed it was common:

[FONT=&quot]agreeance: the act of agreeing; considered obsolete and a bastardization of 'agreement' (Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agreeance)

eg. [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The argument put forward here is in agreeance with earlier statements that...

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]I like this word and have used it regularly for forever and apparently it's only really in vogue in Oz and is falling out here too. It's no longer in spell check dictoinaries which for me is the nail in the coffin for a word.

End rant.
[/FONT]