Ends and Means

[Bernie]

Interesting point made by Patrick Smith in the Australian.

"...At its crudest, it ( the GF ) is a contest for football`s ultimate prize by the two clubs who have been identified as the two biggest cheats in the competition.

Both clubs have been fined a total of more than $750,000 by the AFL Commission for salary cap and player payment breaches. They have been forced to give up draft picks as well. Not much will be said of this by other clubs... "

So do cheats prosper ?

 

[Shinboners]

Bernie

EVERY CLUB cheated on their salary cap. The only thing was that when an amnesty was offerred in the early 90s, Essendon (for some unknown reason) didn't take it up. As for Melbourne, Joe Gutnick did an audit of the club and found they had breached the salary cap, so he notified the AFL.

If you think the year 2000 premiership is tainted, then every premiership since the salary cap was introduced should be considered tainted as well.

 

[sainter]

If every club apparently cheated, does anyone have the details of how much all the teams cheated by.

We were in deep financial trouble around that time and I would be surprised if we did.

I would doubt Fitzroy would have cheated and probably the same thing for the bulldogs.

But if I am wrong, let me know.

 

[Rooboy 96]

Sainter... I thought the Kangaroos were cash strapped all the time... so they didn't either... I take it...

 

[walshy1993]

how has cheating payed off for essendon.
they payed enormous fines, and then lost draft picks.
essendon are were they are today because of the hard work done towards recruiting and by the players on and off the field.
remember essendon breached the salary cap in order to keep mark harvey from going to nth.
mark harvey isnt playing now so how has cheating payed off???

the most interesting thing about that article is that patrick smith is an essendon supporter
good to see loyalty in amoung the press

 

[Rooboy 96]

Your club didn't have to get caught in the first place, but hey... they think they are so smart....

Now how important was Mark Harvey...

The question is how has cheating paid off now.

Instead of cheating they should have either let Harvey go (if so no difference now) or prune some other players to allow Harvey in under the salary cap (maybe some you player in 1993 misiti, hird, mercuri, fletcher) now that would make a lot of difference now, would it not???

We gave up Kickett because we could not afford to cheat and match Essendon's offer, and did not want to give up on our future.

That is the difference...

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

I reckon both sides would not be there except for cheating the salary cap

Look at Melbourne - would they have even made the finals if they did not have Jeff White ? - they cheated to get Jeff White, plain and simple.

Same with Essendon - Hird, Fletcher, Misiti etc. they were cheating in 1993 when those players came on board - again you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that Essendon has gained enormous benefit from their 1993 indiscretion.

Oh and before you all start calling me a hypocrite - I know the AFL looked the other way while we cheated during the late 80's - early 90's period, I know that and I'm not making excuses for my club.

But the question is asked - how much have tomorrows protagonists benefitted from cheating the salary cap ?

My answer is - HEAPS

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

cheers to me - 600 posts and still going strong

 

[Roylion]

It was because of Fitzroy that the AFL produced one of the dumbest rules they ever have by demanding that all AFL clubs (urged on by the Players Association of course) pay 95% of the salary cap limit to their players. Fitzroy was up to 50% below the allowed salary cap and in fact off-loaded many of their more expensive players in order to stay afloat. The AFL did not want clubs doing this and so were quite happy to introduce this rule as part of a collective bargaining agreement with the players. So Fitzroy defintely did not cheat.

I agree with Shinboners. Every club that could afford to "cheated" by going over the salary cap. Collingwood, Carlton, Geelong, Richmond, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Essendon are the clubs that I know of that "cheated." Most took advantage of the moratorium and got off scot free, whereas I would argue that Essendon and Melbourne have suffered quite severely by not taking advantage of this moratorium and subsequently being fined and lost draft picks. So who's prospered from their "cheating"? Not Essendon or Melbourne that's for sure! And yet they are the ones branded by some people on this forum as cheats, more so because this year they happen to be playing in this year's Grand Final.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Same with Essendon - Hird, Fletcher, Misiti etc. they were cheating in 1993 when those players came on board

Actually Hird and Misiti were both drafted prior to 1993. And Fletcher came in via the father/son rule so no-one else could have drafted him anyway.

As Shinboners said, *almost* everyone was over then, these two clubs were just the one that got sprung. You might as well ask how much did cheating the salary cap benefit last years Grand Finalsists, or the year before that or the year before that.

Get over it

 

[Rooboy 96]

Dave..

If Essesndon decided that they would meet North's offer to Harvey, and stay under the salary cap... they would have had to let go of some players, who would of those players been???

They could very well have been some young kids, like misiti, mercuri, fletcher, hird... who else.

What I am saying is seeing as they cheated, they did not have to make the hard decisions.

and put it this way... ESSENDON ARE DEFINATELY NOT WORSE OFF...

ps. they have paid the fine that the league felt appropriate, so all is forgiven, but history will never forget... so no ESSENDON supporter should be proud...

just to be fair... I think the league was wrong with Melbourne and Jeff White should have been deregistered from Melbourne, and put in the open Draft... anyone remember Brett Chalmers and Collingwood.

 

[Rooboy 96]

No dissent... I take it we all agree....

 

[sandie]

No Rooby I think that people can't be bothered going over & over the same thing.
Dan's got his fav topic & this one is yours.

------------------
Mantis

 

[Rooboy 96]

You made it that way "Proud Sandie"

 

[Roylion]

I'm not sure what you are arguing here Rooboy. How are Essendon any worse than any other club who rorted the salary cap apart from the fact they have been more successful with the players they kept? Many clubs kept good/great players at their club that they would have been forced to let go, had they stayed under the salary cap. Those clubs were let off, under the moratorium. If Essendon had confessed under the moratorium, would you be calling them cheats today? Because if you would have, why aren't you accusing Carlton and players like Greg Williams, Stephen Silvagni and co. for example. I remember distinctly questions being asked about those players in relation to the salary cap. However Carlton confessed under the moratorium and they were in last years GF. I'm dead sure there were many players from many clubs, other than Essendon and Melbourne that were drafted or re-signed on contracts that took their club over the salary cap limit. Because of the moratorium, the details for those clubs were kept quiet and largely confidential, while Essendon's and Melbourne's were made public, giving rise to the mistaken impression by much of the public that these two were the only clubs that cheated.

 

[Dave]

Rooboy - Symons and Cranswick for starters

. And how do you know Nth weren't over their cap?

And despite anything you might say I am and will always remain proud of my club and it's achievements. So blow it out yer arse

[This message has been edited by Dave (edited 08 September 2000).]