Club Focus Essendon 2022 - Setterfield, Weideman, Tsatas, Hayes, A. Davey Jr, J. Davey, Munkara, Montgomerie

[Lore]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Shiel played against the Tigers and Port.

On those 4 games you listed above he polled 6 coaches votes - Merrett polled 18.

I think you have either over rated him or not sure who he is.

Shiel was rushed back

 

[Wild Bill]

Shiel was rushed back

He had 27 & 28 touches - well above his season average of 23 (taking out his sub game) and played his max game time.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Langford is not a mid and a crap one at that.

Setterfield is no good that's two clubs now who don't rate him.

Stocker from what's been said dosent have a tank and suffers from mental health issues pass on both.

The list has underchived compiled with a hard fixture and injuires to key players is why we finished bottom 5.

You need some experienced players to guide the youngsters we get rid of everyone who's over 26/27 then those young players will have no one to look up too when the going gets tough

Who cares if he's a crap mid. We aren't playing for success next year. We are playing to give appropriate game time to the kids and to teach fundamentals and instill non-negotiable behaviors.

The list overachieved last year with the weakest draw in the competition beating a grand total of 1 team inside the 8 who turned around and embarrassed us in a final 2 weeks later. At best we would have had another 3-4 wins this year with a fit list. We are shit. We have no CHF, no CHB or FB, our midfield is undersized. The talk of underperformed is IMO absolute delusion. We've had much better lists over the last 20 years that haven't won finals.

We need to rebuild properly. You can look at the likes of Geelong now and but it's based off a build done the better part of 20 years ago. In 2003 they had 4 players over 24 on their list. 4. 2007 they were the most dominant premiers since 2000. When you are as broken as we are you can't hobble a culture together on the fly. You must strip it back to it's bones and build from the foundation up.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

He had 27 & 28 touches - well above his season average of 23 (taking out his sub game) and played his max game time.

Well I didn't check his stats for those games I've checked our from season at that point

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Who cares if he's a crap mid. We aren't playing for success next year. We are playing to give appropriate game time to the kids and to teach fundamentals and instill non-negotiable behaviors.

The list overachieved last year with the weakest draw in the competition beating a grand total of 1 team inside the 8 who turned around and embarrassed us in a final 2 weeks later. At best we would have had another 3-4 wins this year with a fit list. We are s**t. We have no CHF, no CHB or FB, our midfield is undersized. The talk of underperformed is IMO absolute delusion. We've had much better lists over the last 20 years that haven't won finals.

We need to rebuild properly. You can look at the likes of Geelong now and but it's based off a build done the better part of 20 years ago. In 2003 they had 4 players over 24 on their list. 4. 2007 they were the most dominant premiers since 2000. When you are as broken as we are you can't hobble a culture together on the fly. You must strip it back to it's bones and build from the foundation up.

You know we were rated as one of the youngset lists in the comp right?

Our list average is 24.0 years and will be even younger next year with Hurley,Walla,Smith gone.

All the club has been doing is going to the draft.

 

[Wild Bill]

Who cares if he's a crap mid. We aren't playing for success next year. We are playing to give appropriate game time to the kids and to teach fundamentals and instill non-negotiable behaviors.

The list overachieved last year with the weakest draw in the competition beating a grand total of 1 team inside the 8 who turned around and embarrassed us in a final 2 weeks later. At best we would have had another 3-4 wins this year with a fit list. We are s**t. We have no CHF, no CHB or FB, our midfield is undersized. The talk of underperformed is IMO absolute delusion. We've had much better lists over the last 20 years that haven't won finals.

We need to rebuild properly. You can look at the likes of Geelong now and but it's based off a build done the better part of 20 years ago. In 2003 they had 4 players over 24 on their list. 4. 2007 they were the most dominant premiers since 2000. When you are as broken as we are you can't hobble a culture together on the fly. You must strip it back to it's bones and build from the foundation up.

We accepted this 2 years ago - no quick fix anymore. Get 100 games into a core group of young good players and if your drafting is good it should turn. Its starts with pick 4 this year and getting the right player.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

We accepted this 2 years ago - no quick fix anymore. Get 100 games into a core group of young good players and if your drafting is good it should turn. Its starts with pick 4 this year and getting the right player.

People forget we started to rebuild like 2 years ago losing Saad,Fantasia,Daniher forced our hand

 

[Red Black and Blue]

You know we were rated as one of the youngset lists in the comp right?

Our list average is 24.0 years and will be even younger next year with Hurley Walla,Smith gone.

All the club has been doing is going to the draft.

Which means absolutely nothing if they talent isn't good enough. Our round 22 game this year was the same age as Melbournes premiership team last year.

The club has not been going to the draft a lot. We took 1 player inside the top 30 between 2017 and 2019, who was Jones at pick 30. Not since 2015 have we taken 4 players inside the top 30 and we botched two of them.

We've taken a total of 8 players inside 40 since the 2017. One of them being Mosquito who is gone. So that's an average of 1.4 players on the list from the top half of drafts in 5 years.

Sydney have 14
Melbourne have 13
Richmond, Fremantle & Brisbane have 12
Geelong & Collingwood have 11

I wouldn't suggest these teams have draft heavy strategies.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

People forget we started to rebuild like 2 years ago losing Saad,Fantasia,Daniher forced our hand

Have you forgotten? Cause I certainly don't believe that Perkins, Hobbs, Cox, Reid and Eyre are so compelling that our build is complete. I think we are two years into 4-5 year draft talent acquisition faze.

 

[eth-dog]

Drafting is the way forward for us. Taking four first round picks in 2 years is a start but the only players we should be trading for are guys on the fringe who can help us, unless we trade a big ticket item (like Parish) and replace them with someone like Dunkley, who seems to either be Port or Brisbane bound.

Zerk-Thatcher having a strong second half of the year is important, as will having Reid develop at CHB.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Have you forgotten? Cause I certainly don't believe that Perkins, Hobbs, Cox, Reid and Eyre are so compelling that our build is complete. I think we are two years into 4-5 year draft talent acquisition faze.

Thats what I mean we are 2 years in a 4-5 year rebuild some people carry on like the list is full of 30 plus year olds

There is a good young core already just need to keep adding to it but also nothing wrong with acquiring established talent from other clubs to plug holes along the way

Unless we got gws/gc concessions when they first entered its impossible to fill the list with just high quality picks.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Which means absolutely nothing if they talent isn't good enough. Our round 22 game this year was the same age as Melbournes premiership team last year.

The club has not been going to the draft a lot. We took 1 player inside the top 30 between 2017 and 2019, who was Jones at pick 30. Not since 2015 have we taken 4 players inside the top 30 and we botched two of them.

We've taken a total of 8 players inside 40 since the 2017. One of them being Mosquito who is gone. So that's an average of 1.4 players on the list from the top half of drafts in 5 years.

Sydney have 14
Melbourne have 13
Richmond, Fremantle & Brisbane have 12
Geelong & Collingwood have 11

I wouldn't suggest these teams have draft heavy strategies.

Was said our list has about 20 top 30 picks.

The coaching and development of players is our biggest problem we havent had issues acquiring talent via the draft

 

[Atavistic]

The coaching and development of players is our biggest problem we havent had issues acquiring talent via the draft

Dodoro would love that you said that.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Was said our list has about 20 top 30 picks.

The coaching and development of players is our biggest problem we havent had issues acquiring talent via the draft

Where players are taken in the draft is pretty irrelevant afterwards. The development side of things hasn’t been as bad as the level of talent.

Tell me who were going to be the dominant big bodies predraft? Who were the elite runners? Who were the elite kicks? Whose agility was going to be unmatched? We've taken a lot of mid range guys without high upside.

The only time we've gone against this was 2020 draft when COVID happened and the draft pool was far more speculative than normal.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Thats what I mean we are 2 years in a 4-5 year rebuild some people carry on like the list is full of 30 plus year olds

There is a good young core already just need to keep adding to it but also nothing wrong with acquiring established talent from other clubs to plug holes along the way

Unless we got gws/gc concessions when they first entered its impossible to fill the list with just high quality picks.

A young list doesn't mean a rebuild is complete. It's when you've acquired enough talent. We are young but still have no long term CHF, probably 2 star mids and a high potential utility. The hardest positions to fill.

Holding onto senior players because of arbitrary games played isn't wise. You hold onto mature bodies to manage minutes, protect against physicality and to instill positive traits in the next generation. If the senior players don't have enough positive traits their leadership is a net negative. Our previous generation had poor leaders and their poor traits have been inherited by the likes of Parish and Merrett. We should be trying to avoid this again.

It's not required to fill a list with high picks but if you can make some educated trades to generate additional high picks with little downside, it certainly aids in a wider acquisition of talent.

 

[Wild Bill]

A young list doesn't mean a rebuild is complete. It's when you've acquired enough talent. We are young but still have no long term CHF, probably 2 star mids and a high potential utility. The hardest positions to fill.

Holding onto senior players because of arbitrary games played isn't wise. You hold onto mature bodies to manage minutes, protect against physicality and to instill positive traits in the next generation. If the senior players don't have enough positive traits their leadership is a net negative. Our previous generation had poor leaders and their poor traits have been inherited by the likes of Parish and Merrett. We should be trying to avoid this again.

It's not required to fill a list with high picks but if you can make some educated trades to generate additional high picks with little downside, it certainly aids in a wider acquisition of talent.

Its why the Cats and Swans are so good - having players that drive the standard and everyone invests in. Its taught from day 1.

We have been smashed for our major cutting of the list but those doing the cutting should have a good idea that they aren't the players to take us forward.

I for 1 am happy - sick of 7th-10th finishes and getting middle picks in the draft. Rather a proper bottom out and bring in top end talent. LDU exploded in the 2nd half of the year - we need some of the kids to start doing the same.

I think it is a good thing Francis is leaving - dodo has trouble cutting players - especially early draft picks - as it is seen as a failure. You end up clogging your list.

 

[Andyy]

Who cares if he's a crap mid. We aren't playing for success next year. We are playing to give appropriate game time to the kids and to teach fundamentals and instill non-negotiable behaviors.

The list overachieved last year with the weakest draw in the competition beating a grand total of 1 team inside the 8 who turned around and embarrassed us in a final 2 weeks later. At best we would have had another 3-4 wins this year with a fit list. We are s**t. We have no CHF, no CHB or FB, our midfield is undersized. The talk of underperformed is IMO absolute delusion. We've had much better lists over the last 20 years that haven't won finals.

We need to rebuild properly. You can look at the likes of Geelong now and but it's based off a build done the better part of 20 years ago. In 2003 they had 4 players over 24 on their list. 4. 2007 they were the most dominant premiers since 2000. When you are as broken as we are you can't hobble a culture together on the fly. You must strip it back to it's bones and build from the foundation up.

This post is on the money.

Also average team age means absolutely F all. You need older players to mentor and protect kids. The best thing to look for as how many of your best players are in that 23-28 range.

 

[eth-dog]

This post is on the money.

Also average team age means absolutely F all. You need older players to mentor and protect kids. The best thing to look for as how many of your best players are in that 23-28 range.

Ridley, Draper, McGrath, Redman, Snelling (bad year but a good player when he's fit), Parish, Langford, Wright, Laverde and Merrett would be considered most of our core and all are in that range.

We still lack a lot of experience. If Heppell leaves for GC (we're still not sure on this) we'll have lost over 800 games of AFL experience off the list this year between him, Hurley, Smith, Walla and Cutler. In addition, going into the season we won't have any 200 game players, three 150+ game players (Sheil 199, Merrett 184, Stringer 172) and only another 5 100 game players (Parish 132, Kelly 131, McGrath 111, Wright 109 and Langford 107).

Definitely need to look to get some experience into the squad.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

A young list doesn't mean a rebuild is complete. It's when you've acquired enough talent. We are young but still have no long term CHF, probably 2 star mids and a high potential utility. The hardest positions to fill.

Holding onto senior players because of arbitrary games played isn't wise. You hold onto mature bodies to manage minutes, protect against physicality and to instill positive traits in the next generation. If the senior players don't have enough positive traits their leadership is a net negative. Our previous generation had poor leaders and their poor traits have been inherited by the likes of Parish and Merrett. We should be trying to avoid this again.

It's not required to fill a list with high picks but if you can make some educated trades to generate additional high picks with little downside, it certainly aids in a wider acquisition of talent.

Not saying our list rebuild is complete we lack exprinced players and we are not going to get that via tha draft.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Not saying our list rebuild is complete we lack exprinced players and we are not going to get that via tha draft.

Which we should do cheaply, while maximizing the value of the resources we have on the list. The priority shouldn't be match the list demographics of the top teams as quickly as possible but nurture a young group through a period of 4-5 years. The problem we have now isn't the width of talent but the potential in it. The stars aren't apparent, meaning we aren't finished with the acquisition period despite that spread and need to compound resources to give us more top end picks.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Which we should do cheaply, while maximizing the value of the resources we have on the list. The priority shouldn't be match the list demographics of the top teams as quickly as possible but nurture a young group through a period of 4-5 years.

Getting blokes like Stocker and Settefiled wont fill that void.

I'm not sure fans are willing to wait anymore

20 years of crapness the club and fans have had a gutfull they want sucess now.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Getting blokes like Stocker and Settefiled wont fill that void.

I'm not sure fans are willing to wait anymore 20 years of crapness the club and fans have had a gutfull they want sucess now

They aren't there to fill the void in quality. Because treading mid table indefinitely will only extend our misery. They are there to protect the real talent while it develops and if we get lucky maybe one becomes 7-8 year depth prospect.

It doesn't matter whether the fans are willing to wait. If we don't; we will be having this conversation for another 20 years. In 2016 I said this was the opportunity to rebuild and we didn't. We abandoned it after a year. The list is bad. You can wish it was another way, but pretending it isn't doesn't make it so. We are at a similar junction to 2016. We can either deny reality and make our pain perpetual or embrace another two hard years for potential greatness.

If we trade out Shiel to upgrade our pick 22 this year: We could see a haul of Sheezel/Cadman/Tsatas/Wardlaw + Mackensie/Humphreys/Szybkowski/Ginbey, + the Daveys and potentially Munkara. Next year if Parish leaves as a free agent and we finish bottom few we would have a monster hand in the most talented draft pool since precovid.

We'd exit that two draft period with a combined 7 top 30 prospects plus a high potential academy kid. Add these to the four first rounders over the last two years and our list potential would be rivalling that of a bloated new franchise.

If that was our list profile by this time next year, we'd quickly be a desirable location for free agents and would have a core of about 25 talented prospects 23 and under, giving us a really long window to target the best senior prospects in the league. That is a rebuild.

 

[eth-dog]

They aren't there to fill the void in quality. Because treading mid table indefinitely will only extend our misery. They are there to protect the real talent while it develops and if we get lucky maybe one becomes 7-8 year depth prospect.

It doesn't matter whether the fans are willing to wait. If we don't; we will be having this conversation for another 20 years. In 2016 I said this was the opportunity to rebuild and we didn't. We abandoned it after a year. The list is bad. You can wish it was another way, but pretending it isn't doesn't make it so. We are at a similar junction to 2016. We can either deny reality and make our pain perpetual or embrace another two hard years for potential greatness.

If we trade out Shiel to upgrade our pick 22 this year: We could see a haul of Sheezel/Cadman/Tsatas/Wardlaw + Mackensie/Humphreys/Szybkowski/Ginbey, + the Daveys and potentially Munkara. Next year if Parish leaves as a free agent and we finish bottom few we would have a monster hand in the most talented draft pool since precovid.

We'd exit that two draft period with a combined 7 top 30 prospects plus a high potential academy kid. Add these to the four first rounders over the last two years and our list potential would be rivalling that of a bloated new franchise.

If that was our list profile by this time next year, we'd quickly be a desirable location for free agents and would have a core of about 25 talented prospects 23 and under, giving us a really long window to target the best senior prospects in the league. That is a rebuild.

I'm looking at our age profile and games profile and I don't see how we can trade Shiel.

He is not netting us that pick from the Dogs or anything earlier. Richmond's pick will be tied to Hopper/Taranto, Freo's tied to Jackson and then Sydney have no need for him with their midfield. Any pick after that is right in Davey territory so we'd probably have to trade up again to be sure we get in ahead of one.

Plus there's the fact that he's our best midfielder. I don't care what people say about Parish last year, that is literally the only year he's ever been better than Shiel and Shiel was better again this year. We will have a maximum of 9 100+ game players heading into next year, with only 1 (Heppell) having played 200 games and we aren't even sure if he's sticking around yet.

We can't trade Shiel. Parish I'll happily trade if we can get a big bodied replacement like Dunkley but only then.

 

[Ants]

They don't need more mids - they need help with their backline - and if anything defensive mids.

Imagine Shiel and Trelours kick to kick - would certainly get them fit chasing the footballs.

Aren't the bulldogs getting Jones to help with defence?

Shiel definitely may not be the type of midfielder they want. But he would add another top level one in for no salary cop cost. I suspect they'd say no but I don't think its wildly off base.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I'm looking at our age profile and games profile and I don't see how we can trade Shiel.

He is not netting us that pick from the Dogs or anything earlier. Richmond's pick will be tied to Hopper/Taranto, Freo's tied to Jackson and then Sydney have no need for him with their midfield. Any pick after that is right in Davey territory so we'd probably have to trade up again to be sure we get in ahead of one.

Plus there's the fact that he's our best midfielder. I don't care what people say about Parish last year, that is literally the only year he's ever been better than Shiel and Shiel was better again this year. We will have a maximum of 9 100+ game players heading into next year, with only 1 (Heppell) having played 200 games and we aren't even sure if he's sticking around yet.

We can't trade Shiel. Parish I'll happily trade if we can get a big bodied replacement like Dunkley but only then.

I don't really care for age profile or games profile, that's a worry for contending times. We are currently like Melbourne were heading in 2016. They had 14 players under 21 in then. We have 8 currently. They also only had 9 player over 100 games. They traded in Lever and Lewis at the end 2017 and May the end of 2018.

I don't see why that'll be a hinderance in 3-4 years time when we should be contending.

I don't see why the Dogs wouldn't do it. They are in a premiership window, have few needs but are losing Dunkley. Shiel plus a high second rounder is good enough value. The difference between Humphrey/Ginbey and Cowan/Konstanty/Hayes isn't as significant to them as it is to us.