Essendon's Problem Doesn't Exist - Dank

[KGBeast]

There's some studies that have been done that indicate something like 90% of all people would break the law if they knew they weren't going to get caught...here's a bloke who tells them what they want to hear, at a club that has a strong central personality culture going on.

Which bloke are you referring to?

 

[IanW]

If is were as simple as you need it to be why isn't it all over by now?

Because Essendon lawyered up, and WADA and ASADA want everything to stick.

 

[sherb]

And how did they possibly think it was ok to inject their players with this hotch potch cocktail of substances? Regardless of their WADA status, did nobody say 'why are we giving our players a drug normally prescribed for dementia'? Or, 'Why are we giving them medications for off label use?'. Did no body ask that? It just blows me away thinking that ANYONE thought that was ok!

I would have thought Essendon supporters here should have been absolutely scathing of their club for this aspect of the whole mess alone.

Forgetting everything else for a minute. What about the health of their players?

 

[davesnothere]

Mid August before the outcome on the material being tested in Germany is known....still a long haul ahead.

 

[KGBeast]

Because it was an elaborate program and details of long lasting effects and other chemicals used detailed in ACC report will need to be investigated. This will take at least another three months.

So if no findings or corroborative evidence can be revealed for at least three months, how can you have come to a conclusion so quickly without any of the actual evidence at your disposal?

Sorry, I don't mean to single you out but I'm trying to understand this mob mentality. I honestly believed that most people would be skeptical about the headline grabbing articles that offer tiny bits of info yet some here seem to be taking it all as gospel even when it contradicts itself.

 

[Messenger]

If Essendon fans think the standard of debate needs to be lifted here, maybe they should be part of the solution.

Quoted for truth.

 

[pinot]

So if no findings or corroborative evidence can be revealed for at least three months, how can you have come to a conclusion so quickly without any of the actual evidence at your disposal?

Sorry, I don't mean to single you out but I'm trying to understand this mob mentality. I honestly believed that most people would be skeptical about the headline grabbing articles that offer tiny bits of info yet some here seem to be taking it all as gospel even when it contradicts itself.

I am not sure if you are serious with that comment. I am not sure where you stand with a report issued by the Australian Crime Commission after a 12 month investigation. The drugs listed in the ACC report are being leaked by the media one by one and we are not even half way through all the chemicals listed in that report.

 

[evo]

If is were as simple as you need it to be why isn't it all over by now?

because the people you are investigating paper work mysteriously becomes 'lost' while other bits are suddently 'found', and when the coach comes into interviews you can barely see them for all the lawyers accompanying him. it takes time to build a solid case.

 

[Messenger]

Fantastic!!!


Hang are we taking Danks word on this one or not ..... I can't remember as we flop between calling him a liar or basing an argument on something he's said.

You're not worried that someone at your club possibly took that assurance as the basis of the supplement program?

 

[Messenger]

So where are the consent forms?

 

[mxett]

wheres the popcorn machine, something tells me the next couple of months is going to be great mxett pazza fishardansin Lance Uppercut reading

I posted a number of times yesterday, before this article, that I believed Essendon used AOD. Whether they are punished for it will depend on any correspondence with ASADA and legal wrangling

 

[Boxhead_31]

I posted a number of times yesterday, before this article, that I believed Essendon used AOD. Whether they are punished for it will depend on any correspondence with ASADA and legal wrangling

Dank has just admitted that there is no correspondence

 

[IanW]

I posted a number of times yesterday, before this article, that I believed Essendon used AOD. Whether they are punished for it will depend on any correspondence with ASADA and legal wrangling

DW: Have you ever said you have an email that gives you permission to use AOD?
SD: ''I have never said I have had permissions. I've always said that I have an email that it does not contravene S2.''


http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-have-nothing-to-fear-dank-20130504-2izp5.html

So, we're either looking at a scenario where

1) permission for a single patient to use an experimental drug in Australia equals that drug being approved under section 0, or

2) AOD-9604 is a prohibited substance under WADA 2011.

 

[mxett]

Dank has just admitted that there is no correspondence

Well actually you need to read the article again

 

[mxett]

DW: Have you ever said you have an email that gives you permission to use AOD?
SD: ''I have never said I have had permissions. I've always said that I have an email that it does not contravene S2.''


http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-have-nothing-to-fear-dank-20130504-2izp5.html

So, we're either looking at a scenario where

1) permission for a single patient to use an experimental drug in Australia equals that drug being approved under section 0, or

2) AOD-9604 is a prohibited substance under WADA 2011.

He claims he rang ASADA and they said it was ok to use AOD because he demonstrated it was for sale in Australia. He also said he didnt have a record of that conversation. So he appears to be contradicting himself

 

[IanW]

He claims he rang ASADA and they said it was ok to use AOD because he demonstrated it was for sale in Australia. He also said he didnt have a record of that conversation. So he appears to be contradicting himself

The thing I keep finding unbelieveable is that Essendon had no independent check that what he was telling them was true.

EFC appeared to be genuinely surprised there was no permission letter (ie saying they'd call in the AFP).

My guess is thats a major feature of the Ziggy report.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Well actually you need to read the article again

Where in the article does it say that it clears S0? Hence no correspondence

 

[IanW]

Where in the article does it say that it clears S0? Hence no correspondence

Mxett's srgument is section 0 is cleared because as they can legally get an experimental peptide off a compounding chemist, it passes under section 0.

 

[pinot]

What's even more amazing Dank has told Hird the program would be "on the edge" and players would need to sign consent forms where Hird and the board(or whichever director is responsible for auditing the sports science department) did not seem to bother to conduct their own due dilligence based on the information Dank gave the club. One would think phrases such as "on the edge" would have to be thoroughly investigated before the club ratified the program. So, Hird, The Weapon, Bomber Thompson, Evans & Dank in that order OK'd a loophole to systematically cheat.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Well this is all very interesting. Dank has just tied all of the strings together. The email chain WADA released is accurate and there is no other letter.

Equally, I think I can see now an answer to the conundrum that has plagued me - how Dank could possibly have fooled Dr Reid (or others, if Reid was frozen out) and Dr Bates. That's why I've been convinced there must have been some sort of correspondence. There was, of course, and that was only the emails WADA released. So how did that do the trick?

... it does not fail S2. So it is not related to growth-hormone use. That email showed that and this was a discussion I had in two conversations with WADA that it did not contravene S2 based on IGF [insulin-like growth factor] receptor activity. She instructed me to have a discussion with ASADA … I rang ASADA and said that this was a preparation that was already on the market, plus this was going to be formulated under compounding conditions, so from that point of view we were already dealing with a product on the market.

What I take out of this is that Dank does indeed think he is the "smartest person in the world", and what's more, he's very, very persuasive. I can see how the above reasoning, expressed confidently and forcefully - along with the email - might have fooled the powers that be at Essendon and Melbourne.

More fool them, I'm afraid.

 

[JeffDunne]

The thing I keep finding unbelieveable is that Essendon had no independent check that what he was telling them was true.

EFC appeared to be genuinely surprised there was no permission letter (ie saying they'd call in the AFP).

My guess is thats a major feature of the Ziggy report.

My guess if that's all Ziggy's report will feature.

The report should be called "Plausible Deniability" because that's what it was set up to establish.

An ASIC Investigator once told me the easiest way to sniff out crooked administrators is to look where governance failures only exist in one part of an organisation. Incompetence is usually reflected throughout all areas but nefarious activities require planning.

In this case it looks to me like Essendon at the very least didn't want to know. At worst they planned it so it would look like they didn't know.

Or . . . they are just totally incompetent at running a business.

 

[Bloodstained Bomber]

Because The Weapon and Dank delivered a premiership at Manly, and delivered a premiership at Geelong.

Both of those clubs became stronger and faster because the drugs from Dank's kit bag enabled The Weapon to train them harder.

And then came Section 0, and much of Dank's kit bag became prohibited as it lacks approval for human theraputic use.

Yeah, this doesnt cover the not-even-prescribable-in-Australia dementia medicines and the rest of it ... but if you want to win the flag, you take what the sports scientist tells you to take, right ?

And yeah, section 0 section 0 section 0. Everything has to pass section 0. Always.

Dank loves law suits so with any luck he will be coming your way. I've taken a screen shot, just for the lols in case...

 

[mxett]

The thing I keep finding unbelieveable is that Essendon had no independent check that what he was telling them was true.

EFC appeared to be genuinely surprised there was no permission letter (ie saying they'd call in the AFP).

My guess is thats a major feature of the Ziggy report.

If true Doc Reids position is untenable because he was the person nominated to select substance based on efficacy, safety and compliance

 

[sherb]

What's even more amazing Dank has told Hird the program would be "on the edge" and players would need to sign consent forms where Hird and the board(or whichever director is responsible for auditing the sports science department) did not seem to bother to conduct their own due dilligence based on the information Dank gave the club. One would think phrases such as "on the edge" would have to be thoroughly investigated before the club ratified the program. So, Hird, The Weapon, Bomber Thompson, Evans & Dank in that order OK'd a loophole to systematically cheat.

I made the same point earlier.

You've got to think they were prepared to turn a blind eye to what was going on.

 

[Higgs Boson]

If true Doc Reids position is untenable because he was the person nominated to select substance based on efficacy, safety and compliance

I'm afraid that if Dr Reid tried to escalate concerns to the Board - if that's what happened - then this goes way beyond the good doctor.