Essendon's Problem Doesn't Exist - Dank

[mxett]

Don't expect a sensible answer... I asked of him repeatedly last week. Thinks the email stating that doc Reid should approve everything is evidence he actually did, despite reports the Doc was frozen out.

And you ignore the fact Reid claims to have seen evidence of AODs compliance. Why would he claim this if he was frozen out?

 

[Jimthegreat]

Rubbish.

As I have stated numerous times, if Hird ignored advice from Reid that AOD shouldn't be used then Hird MUST go. If Essendon acting on the advice of Reid that AOD was compliant then he must be held responsible. that is unless he had legitimate proof like approval from ASADA.

I've worked in healthcare for over 20 years. I trust and respect doctors more than most people I know. But their role comes with substantial responsibilities because other rely on and act on their advice without question. If they fail in that responsibility they must be held to account.

Anyway, Doc Reid seems like a great bloke and is obviously a highly respected doctor. I really hope he had legitimate proof to approve AOD for use. Allegedly he has claimed he saw proof, as did Doc Bates.

Still hanging on to hope there was a letter or email....lol! Best you can hope for there is that Danks showed the Doc only the part of the email he WANTED them to see. Similar to what we read in today's interview with Danks. You employed a lunatic.

 

[Chameleon75]

I don't for certain of course. That's why I said if.

Having said that Mike Sheahan who is also a fan of Reids was very critical of the fact he didnt take his concerns further. If those concerns were about banned substances a letter to the board isnt enough of a protest. Having said that allegedly Reid saw eveince AOD was compliant so I doubt he complained about banned substances, more about the process

Ever considered that doc Reid, rather than being frozen out, might have removed himself from the programme in protest?

 

[Chameleon75]

And you ignore the fact Reid claims to have seen evidence of AODs compliance. Why would he claim this if he was frozen out?

Maybe it's the presented evidence that prompted him to write his letter?

 

[pinot]

Danks has admitted to giving players AOD. Then has tried to twist everything to say he was allowed to do it legally. Also conveniently hiding non-existent letters the dog ate, miss convenient sections like WADA's s0 clause while quoting the s2 clause, selectively taking clauses from email correspondence with WADA to make it all sound right etc...etc.... Say what you like, he has injected illegal substances into the players. He said it himself no matter what Essendon supporters want to say. That is not a leak. Means the club is in trouble player suspension-wise. No getting away from that. And that's just AOD. God knows what else this lunatic has injected into the players.

Best Essendon can hope for was that coaches and officials were naive to what he doing, which seems to be a possibility. If they weren't then the club is in absolute deep sh1t.

They are way past playing stupid and naive card as Dr Reid already voiced his concerns on the supplements program.. so they were warned, by their own club doctor no less and ignored him.

 

[Tazmania]

And you ignore the fact Reid claims to have seen evidence of AODs compliance. Why would he claim this if he was frozen out?

Actually I don't ignore this. The claim was that doc reid saw the letter which we now know doesnt exist, not that he saw evidence of its approval.

even if there was a letter, As I said last week, two things could have occurred from this;
1. Doc Reid gave the green light.
2. Doc Reid had concerns about this and tried to raise it but was frozen out.

Which one of these options has been reported about and which one is wholly your opinion?

You're assuming that doc Reid approved it after seeing a letter giving the approval but there has been nothing reported that this occurred.

 

[mxett]

Ever considered that doc Reid, rather than being frozen out, might have removed himself from the programme in protest?

Wow, great way to look after your patients!

I simply cannot believe that he would be so negligent

 

[carlton2dabone]

I beg your pardon?

All due respect, but that is probably the stupidest, rubbish posts I've read

No it is not rubbish, you have a reality where everyone has a picture of what has happened, then you have an alternate reality where EFC supporters reside.

- they say they did nothing wrong because they dont believe AOD is not permitted even though say it is.
- they think everyone else at the club should be held responsible before Hird even though there are texts which show Hird discussing the program and the drugs involved directly with Dank.
- they think they should get off lightly when other clubs have been punished harshly for lesser scandals.

Need I go on?

 

[mxett]

Actually I don't ignore this. The claim was that doc reid saw the letter which we now know doesnt exist, not that he saw evidence of its approval.

even if there was a letter, As I said last week, two things could have occurred from this;
1. Doc Reid gave the green light.
2. Doc Reid had concerns about this and tried to raise it but was frozen out.

Which one of these options has been reported about and which one is wholly your opinion?

You're assuming that doc Reid approved it after seeing a letter giving the approval but there has been nothing reported that this occurred.

So the media are lying when they claim Doc Reid and bates saw evidence of AODs compliance, or both doctors are lying. Which one?

 

[I Rock]

This saga continues with the same formula, as soon as something comes out that puts a pro Essendon spin on, out comes another negative media piece that looks worse then the last for the EFC. Of course it is all hearsay ATM, but if things keep going this way the EFC & Supporters theory of "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Then clearly it must be a Tyrannosaurs Rex" will no longer be viable.

 

[pinot]

So the media are lying when they claim Doc Reid and bates saw evidence of AODs compliance, or both doctors are lying. Which one?

Do you have a link that Dr Reid saw evidence of AODs compliance under the WADA code?

 

[Jimthegreat]

Ever considered that doc Reid, rather than being frozen out, might have removed himself from the programme in protest?

It'd be irrelevant of Dr Reid saw anyway, and I'm thinking he saw only part of the correspondence (the s2 WADA clause only, conveniently not the s0 clause that prohibits it's use) in regards to the interview this thread refers to. The fact is it's prohibited no matter what anyone says and Danks injected Essendon players with it. That's the bottom line..........Trouble!!!

 

[DrEvil]

Wow, great way to look after your patients!

I simply cannot believe that he would be so negligent

LOL, you simply cannot believe 1+1=2.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

No it is not rubbish, you have a reality where everyone has a picture of what has happened, then you have an alternate reality where EFC supporters reside.

- they say they did nothing wrong because they dont believe AOD is not permitted even though say it is.
- they think everyone else at the club should be held responsible before Hird even though there are texts which show Hird discussing the program and the drugs involved directly with Dank.
- they think they should get off lightly when other clubs have been punished harshly for lesser scandals.

Need I go on?

it's a rubbish, bullshit analogy.

 

[KennyHunter9]

And you ignore the fact Reid claims to have seen evidence of AODs compliance. Why would he claim this if he was frozen out?

EFC have kept Reid inside the tent but booted Dank and Robinson.

Those inside the tent have a massive interest in lying, to protect themselves and the club.

The Doc might be a good bloke, hell he may even be half the man Hirdy is, but he is not above the base of motivation that seems to be driving Hird, Evans and Bomber Thompson.

 

[carlton2dabone]

it's a rubbish, bullshit analogy.

Figures you would think its a bullshit analogy as its an analogy that people in this reality can see, but you like your fellow supporters live in alternate reality.

 

[Chameleon75]

Wow, great way to look after your patients!

I simply cannot believe that he would be so negligent

I don't think a supplement programme constitutes treatment of a medical condition. If your said patients voluntarily submit themselves to a programme for no medical purpose, and you have advised against it, reportedly in writing, and they continue to participate. It is entirely reasonable to excuse your self from being a party to such a programme.

If I was to ask my doctor on the best way to administrator heroin, I'd expect him to caution against it and refuse to help me. Far from bein unethical, he would be acting with high ethics.

Now before you accuse me of calling Essendon junkies, I'm not accusing them of taking heroin. It's just a clear cut analogy for clarity. My point is on the basis of what has been reported nothing suggests to me that doc Reid has breached his duty of care.

 

[Tazmania]

So the media are lying when they claim Doc Reid and bates saw evidence of AODs compliance, or both doctors are lying. Which one?

Irrelevant, because you dont know what Doc Reid did after seeing this evidence. Seeing the letter does not mean that Doc Reid subsequently signed off on it. It is only your assumption that he did.

Youre engaging in a logical fallcy...here's an example

Argument: If it rains, the ground gets wet. The ground is wet, therefore it rained.Problem: There are other ways by which the ground could get wet (e.g. someone spilled water).

Yours is;
Arguement: Doc Reid had to sign off on all drugs given. Doc reid (allegedly) saw evidence of AOD's approval, as essendon used it therefore Doc Reid approved it.
Problem: There are alternative outcomes from Doc Reid seeing this. (eg he didnt approve it and when trying to raise concerns was frozen out).

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Figures you would think its a bullshit analogy as its an analogy that people in this reality can see, but you like your fellow supporters live in alternate reality.

any time anyone starts comparing footy with rape you know they have a tenuous grasp on reality...

 

[Mr Chuckles]

OK, so if we can take Dank at his word here, we now know for certain that there is no definitive written communication from WADA or ASADA clearing the use of AOD-9604 under the WADA code. Only the emails released by WADA the other day confirming that it was not on the S.2 banned list.

Without the question being asked directly, it seems Dank is inferring that it does not fail the S.0 aspect of the code due to it being already available in products currently on the market, as well as being sourced from a compound chemist. It's certainly possible that ASADA confirmed this interpretation of the therapeutic approval status for Dank, although it would be very hard to prove if the conversation wasn't documented anywhere.

You would hope WADA would have been well aware of the therapeutic approval conditions in Australia prior to issuing their recent public confirmation regarding AOD's non-compliant status under S.0, and if that's the case it certainly seems pretty clear that they disagree with Dank's interpretation.

 

[mxett]

Do you have a link that Dr Reid saw evidence of AODs compliance under the WADA code?

The Bombers said they relied on a document purported to have been issued by the World Anti-Doping Agency approving use of the substance, which WADA confirmed this week was banned.
It is alleged Essendon's former sports scientist Stephen Dank showed a document to Bombers club doctor Bruce Reid.


Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...ar/story-e6frf3e3-1226629127553#ixzz2SNtyowKF

 

[carlton2dabone]

any time anyone starts comparing footy with rape you know they have a tenuous grasp on reality...

No ones comparing footy and rape, the analogy is to demonstrate the type of alternate reality where any excuse and justification is made in an attempt to deny what the rest of the world knows and sees.

You know, like when Baghdad Bob kept insisting the Americans are not able to enter Baghdad even though American tanks were driving right pass him.

 

[mxett]

I don't think a supplement programme constitutes treatment of a medical condition. If your said patients voluntarily submit themselves to a programme for no medical purpose, and you have advised against it, reportedly in writing, and they continue to participate. It is entirely reasonable to excuse your self from being a party to such a programme.

If I was to ask my doctor on the best way to administrator heroin, I'd expect him to caution against it and refuse to help me. Far from bein unethical, he would be acting with high ethics.

Now before you accuse me of calling Essendon junkies, I'm not accusing them of taking heroin. It's just a clear cut analogy for clarity. My point is on the basis of what has been reported nothing suggests to me that doc Reid has breached his duty of care.

club doctors are responsible for ensuring approved supplements are selected for players to use within the club. If the supplements selected are potentially detrimental to a players health this would be best known by the club doctor.

 

[Tazmania]

club doctors are responsible for ensuring approved supplements are selected for players to use within the club. If the supplements selected are potentially detrimental to a players health this would be best known by the club doctor.

And if the club doctor was ignored?

 

[pinot]

The Bombers said they relied on a document purported to have been issued by the World Anti-Doping Agency approving use of the substance, which WADA confirmed this week was banned.
It is alleged Essendon's former sports scientist Stephen Dank showed a document to Bombers club doctor Bruce Reid.


Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...ar/story-e6frf3e3-1226629127553#ixzz2SNtyowKF

Thanks. Will be intersting when that letter was shown to Dr Reid and when Dr Reid went to the board with his concerns. Before or after??.. time will tell.